Are these FZ200 shots more or less noisy than you would expect?

Started Jan 28, 2013 | Discussions
cainn24
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Are these FZ200 shots more or less noisy than you would expect?
Jan 28, 2013

FZ200, SOOC:

Nothing special here in terms of subject matter/composition etc.  I'm primarily interested in what other FZ200 owners have to say about how noisy these images are.  There's definitely a little more noise here than I expected at base ISO.

Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ200
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janeenadamsmartin
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Re: Are these FZ200 shots more or less noisy than you would expect?
In reply to cainn24, Jan 28, 2013

To me, they appear more out of focus more than noisy...but then so might mine...this is from 30 feet or so..does it also looks noisy?

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cainn24
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Re: Are these FZ200 shots more or less noisy than you would expect?
In reply to janeenadamsmartin, Jan 28, 2013

janeenadamsmartin wrote:

To me, they appear more out of focus more than noisy...but then so might mine...this is from 30 feet or so..does it also looks noisy?

Were you using some sort of digital zoom, and a higher ISO maybe?  It doesn't look comparable.

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janeenadamsmartin
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Re: Are these FZ200 shots more or less noisy than you would expect?
In reply to cainn24, Jan 28, 2013

I am trying to figure out how to make photo show exif data.. I could have been using digital zoom.    How can you tell that the  photos aren't comparable without seeing that data?  I am just learning this stuff!

Looking at originals, yours don't look out of focus....

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sherman_levine
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Re: Are these FZ200 shots more or less noisy than you would expect?
In reply to janeenadamsmartin, Jan 28, 2013

Jan,

I think you're using one of the digital zoom modes. They always have the same artifact, as shown in this crop from your image at 100%



Sherm

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cainn24
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Re: Are these FZ200 shots more or less noisy than you would expect?
In reply to janeenadamsmartin, Jan 28, 2013

janeenadamsmartin wrote:

I am trying to figure out how to make photo show exif data.. I could have been using digital zoom. How can you tell that the photos aren't comparable without seeing that data? I am just learning this stuff!

Looking at originals, yours don't look out of focus....

Generally the only time you lose EXIF data is when some program you're using is not configured to retain it when saving out your image.

As far as noise is concerned, viewing your image at 100% is like viewing mine at 200%, which is why I'm guessing it's been enlarged somehow.  In other words, we're not comparing apples to apples.

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janeenadamsmartin
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Re: Are these FZ200 shots more or less noisy than you would expect?
In reply to sherman_levine, Jan 28, 2013

LOL -- where is that artifact? Or maybe *what* is that artifact?

i was at a zoo aviary, so I don't really know distance. Sherm, how do I get the photo to show exif data on dpreview? Is it because I am on my iPad, where nothing shows...not even  file names...arghh.  (Not to mention darn autocorrect...)

jan

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sherman_levine
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Re: Are these FZ200 shots more or less noisy than you would expect?
In reply to janeenadamsmartin, Jan 28, 2013

janeenadamsmartin wrote:

LOL -- where is that artifact? Or maybe *what* is that artifact?

i was at a zoo aviary, so I don't really know distance. Sherm, how do I get the photo to show exif data on dpreview? Is it because I am on my iPad, where nothing shows...not even file names...arghh. (Not to mention darn autocorrect...)

jan

Are you submitting the photos via the iPad?  There have been a few threads about maintaining exif.  Where are the photos stored (on a hosting site? on your computer?)

If I view your images at 100%, what I posted is a bit of what I saw.  All the stuff which looks like tiny ripples is artifact added during the digital zoom.

Now, you may not care that it's there ( If you're viewing at reduced size or making smaller prints) and that's fine - but it does restrict your ability to print at larger sizes.

Sherm

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kkardster
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Re: Are these FZ200 shots more or less noisy than you would expect?
In reply to cainn24, Jan 28, 2013

I see very little noise in the original two photos but do see quite a bit of either noise or some other digital artifacts in the response shot.

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janeenadamsmartin
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Re: Are these FZ200 shots more or less noisy than you would expect?
In reply to sherman_levine, Jan 28, 2013

I see that, now!  Thank you both.

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cainn24
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Re: Are these FZ200 shots more or less noisy than you would expect?
In reply to kkardster, Jan 28, 2013

Maybe I just need to get over my pixel peeping obsession.  I have a veritable arsenal of arguments against such behaviour (when it is indeed obsessive) yet I still do it myself :/

Having said that though, I'm only just beginning to become acquainted with this camera, so I'm trying to develop something of a baseline with which to calibrate my expectations, especially before I trek out to some interesting locations.

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kkardster
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Re: Are these FZ200 shots more or less noisy than you would expect?
In reply to cainn24, Jan 28, 2013

Perhaps this thread will help you to more quickly zero in on the settings that work best for you:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3365215

Yes, pixel-peeping can be disappointing - especially with the smaller-sensored cameras. We all would always like better, but since that's a never-ending search, at some point we have to make the call that what we have is good enough.  As part of that "good enough" call, one must consider how the images will be viewed to truly ascertain any IQ implications. When noise does become an issue, many have found Neat Image to do a good job of effectively cleaning it up.

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janeenadamsmartin
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Re: Are these FZ200 shots more or less noisy than you would expect?
In reply to sherman_levine, Jan 28, 2013

I had them on the iPad just for viewing.   I will look for threads on preserving EXIF.  I also have it on my main computer and the EXIF for that photo says:

1/125

f3.5

108mm

I understood 24-300mm was optical and 300-600mm was digital?  I must obviously have that wrong...

jan

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sherman_levine
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Re: Are these FZ200 shots more or less noisy than you would expect?
In reply to janeenadamsmartin, Jan 28, 2013

janeenadamsmartin wrote:

I had them on the iPad just for viewing. I will look for threads on preserving EXIF. I also have it on my main computer and the EXIF for that photo says:

1/125

f3.5

108mm

I understood 24-300mm was optical and 300-600mm was digital? I must obviously have that wrong...

jan

The 108mm is the actual lens focal length at full zoom (it's the number you see when you look at the front of the lens).  The sensor is 1/6 the width of 35mm film, so the field of view is only 1/6 of what you'd get with a 108mm lens ...or about 600mm.

The standard Exif doesn't take into account much of the camera's doing, such as digital zoom, although much of that information is available in the manufacturer-specific sections of the EXIF.

Are you posting the pictures from you main computer?

Is it running Windows?

Are you using the "Insert image from your computer" icon ?

FWIW, I have no problems with the EXIF when my post includes files from my windows computer.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3287772

Even photos I take with my iPhone and email to my workstation seem to be fine.

Sherm

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sherman_levine
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Re: Are these FZ200 shots more or less noisy than you would expect?
In reply to sherman_levine, Jan 28, 2013

That should read

The 108mm is the actual lens focal length at full zoom (it's the number you see when you look at the front of the lens). The FZ200 sensor is 1/6 the width of 35mm film, so the field of view is only 1/6 of what you'd get with a 108mm lens on the 35mm film camera ...or about what you'd get with a 600mm lens on a 35mm film camera.

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janeenadamsmartin
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Re: Are these FZ200 shots more or less noisy than you would expect?
In reply to sherman_levine, Jan 29, 2013

This is orginal jpg SOOC, inserted with "insert from computer" icon and hopefully will display EXIF info.  right now, while I am in edit mode, it doesn't.

Thank you for the 1/6 lesson on focal length.  I had read that before, but now it sinks in!

jan

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janeenadamsmartin
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Re: Are these FZ200 shots more or less noisy than you would expect?
In reply to janeenadamsmartin, Jan 29, 2013

It worked!  EXIF mission accomplished.

But now I notice the OP's photos are at the same focal length -- so weren't they both using digital zoom and it's an apples-to-apples comparison?

Sorry to be a newb on this --

jan

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chillgreg
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In reply to janeenadamsmartin, Jan 29, 2013
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cainn24
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Re: Are these FZ200 shots more or less noisy than you would expect?
In reply to janeenadamsmartin, Jan 29, 2013

janeenadamsmartin wrote:

It worked! EXIF mission accomplished.

But now I notice the OP's photos are at the same focal length -- so weren't they both using digital zoom and it's an apples-to-apples comparison?

Sorry to be a newb on this --

jan

The full EXIF data reports the 35mm equivalent focal length.  With both my LX7 and my FZ200, that value will take Panasonic's i.Zoom (intelligent zoom), if active during the shot,  into account when calculating it.  As such, the 35mm equivalent FL is reported as 1200mm in your image, and 600mm in mine, indicating that you were  "i.Zoom'ing" [sic] up to 48x when you took that shot

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janeenadamsmartin
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Re: Are these FZ200 shots more or less noisy than you would expect?
In reply to cainn24, Jan 29, 2013

That is with SilkyPix?  Interesting to learn how my camera settings were interpreted:

Contrast +1 = Hard

Saturation +1 = High

Sharpness -2 = Soft

Noise Red -2 = "low gain up?"

(I wonder how "digital zoom ratio" is populated?)

I will have to look at my manual to understand the 35mm equivalent when I zoom so I know what zone I am in.   I think I recall reading there are 3 zones, but in practice, I only remember seeing two zones in the viewfinder, lol!

Thank you for doing the comparison.  It means that looking at focal length on any camera is not a good indicator of actual focal length...right?

jan

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