A true D700 successor: D600 sensor in D800 body ... and fur gods sake, leave the damn video out!!!

Started Jan 27, 2013 | Discussions
csn
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A true D700 successor: D600 sensor in D800 body ... and fur gods sake, leave the damn video out!!!
Jan 27, 2013

Pondering the posts in a recent thread on this forum, "What would cause you to switch to canon?", several references appeared to the Canon EOS 5D Mark III as a the 'true' successor to the D700. I think, Nikon could easily beat the 5dmk3, both feature wise and on price point, by putting the 24MP sensor of the D600, which, judging from the posts on this forum produces awesome images, into the D800 body. I for one would jump on the D750 (what else would you call it?) before it even hit the store shelves. Would anyone else be interested in this camera? Will Nikon ever produce it?

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Robin Casady
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Re: A true D700 successor
In reply to csn, Jan 27, 2013

Dream on. Not going to happen.

It cracks me up how the True D700 Successor has changed over time. At first it was 12 MP with better DR and high ISO IQ. Then it inched up to 16 to match the D7000. There was brief talk about 18 MP. Now it is 24 MP, which would have outraged the True D700 people initially.

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Just Having Fun
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Is this post serious?
In reply to csn, Jan 27, 2013

Make a camera to comete with the 5dmk3, but cripple it so it can't do video?

While more photographers are switch to smaller cameras, more independent film makes are switching to DSLRs.

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leighton w
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Re: Is this post serious?
In reply to Just Having Fun, Jan 27, 2013

Really doesn't hurt to have the video, if you don't like it, don't use it, that simple.

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csn
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Re: A true D700 successor
In reply to Robin Casady, Jan 27, 2013

Robin Casady wrote:

Dream on. Not going to happen.

I don't see why not. It would be a natural move on Nikon's part mating existing components and would solve multiple issues at once. People gripe about D800 file size and low fps. This would remedy both of those issues while maintaining very high IQ. Furthermore, because it is using existing (off the self)  components, development costs would be low. As an engineer, I would find this solution a no-brainer.

It cracks me up how the True D700 Successor has changed over time. At first it was 12 MP with better DR and high ISO IQ. Then it inched up to 16 to match the D7000. There was brief talk about 18 MP. Now it is 24 MP, which would have outraged the True D700 people initially.

I am not hung up on exact MP count. I suggested the D600 sensor because it's off the self, see above reply.

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csn
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Re: Is this post serious?
In reply to Just Having Fun, Jan 27, 2013

Just Having Fun wrote:

Make a camera to comete with the 5dmk3, but cripple it so it can't do video?

While more photographers are switch to smaller cameras, more independent film makes are switching to DSLRs.

I don't give a flying hoot about video. I would prefer not to have it; however, I understand and accept it that cost and marketing issues make it a necessary to offer video in DSLRS. I do have video in my D300S and just ignore it.

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michaeladawson
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Re: A true D700 successor
In reply to csn, Jan 27, 2013

csn wrote:

Robin Casady wrote:

Dream on. Not going to happen.

I don't see why not. It would be a natural move on Nikon's part mating existing components and would solve multiple issues at once. People gripe about D800 file size and low fps. This would remedy both of those issues while maintaining very high IQ. Furthermore, because it is using existing (off the self) components, development costs would be low. As an engineer, I would find this solution a no-brainer.

Because it's doubtful Nikon wants to have 4 FX bodies to maintain.  Or are you suggesting they stop making the D800?  I don't think you are.  Now add to it a high MP pro body like the D4X that some people want and you now have 5 FX bodies to maintain.

Could Nikon put the D600 sensor in a D800 body?  Sure they could.  What do you suggest it sell for?  Would there be any point to selling the D600 anymore?

I agree with Robin.  Ain't gonna happen.

It cracks me up how the True D700 Successor has changed over time. At first it was 12 MP with better DR and high ISO IQ. Then it inched up to 16 to match the D7000. There was brief talk about 18 MP. Now it is 24 MP, which would have outraged the True D700 people initially.

I am not hung up on exact MP count. I suggested the D600 sensor because it's off the self, see above reply.

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csn
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Re: A true D700 successor
In reply to michaeladawson, Jan 27, 2013

michaeladawson wrote:

csn wrote:

Robin Casady wrote:

Dream on. Not going to happen.

I don't see why not. It would be a natural move on Nikon's part mating existing components and would solve multiple issues at once. People gripe about D800 file size and low fps. This would remedy both of those issues while maintaining very high IQ. Furthermore, because it is using existing (off the self) components, development costs would be low. As an engineer, I would find this solution a no-brainer.

Because it's doubtful Nikon wants to have 4 FX bodies to maintain. Or are you suggesting they stop making the D800? I don't think you are. Now add to it a high MP pro body like the D4X that some people want and you now have 5 FX bodies to maintain.

Could Nikon put the D600 sensor in a D800 body? Sure they could. What do you suggest it sell for? Would there be any point to selling the D600 anymore?

It's simple. Nikon is loosing sales because potential customers (like me) want neither the D600 (too entry level feel) nor the D800 (slow fps and cumbersome file size).

The D600 is an entry level FX body. Nikon could discount it a bit (which is already happening) and would sell zillion of them.

The D800/800E are specialist FX bodies with pixel counts in the stratosphere; they will always have their special place with landcape, product and studio artist who need that kind of image detail.

The rest who want a semi-pro 'jack-of-all-trade' FX body would be happy with the D750, which would nicely slot in between the D600/800 pair in the mid $2K price range.

Yes, this is a proliferation of bodies but it covers the entire FX market. Reading the posts in various Nikon related forums, one gets a sense that there is a giant hole in Nikon's FX line up, which needs some serious plugging.

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CeleryBeats
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Re: A true D700 successor
In reply to csn, Jan 27, 2013

What's the issue with the D800 sensor though? There is none really. Detail, high iso, dynamic range. It's all there top of the bill. It's the best period. The D800 IS a true successor. Who would complain about images being too detailed?? I'm sorry but this doesn't make sense to me. If you can afford a DSLR on a level like this, there should be no problem investing in a pc/laptop system with 8gb's of ram and a TB of storage to handle those RAWS.

And absolutely no! Don't leave video out!! Why? It's not getting in the way of picture quality. FF dslr's provide awesome video quality. It's not for nothing D800's are being used in the production of "Dexter"...

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CeleryBeats
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Re: A true D700 successor
In reply to csn, Jan 27, 2013

It's simple. Nikon is loosing sales

What's your source on this?  I know for one that in the Benelux both the D800 and D600 are selling like cupcakes.  I got the D800 new for 2280 EURO.  That's an insane deal for a DSLR like that. And Nikon just extended their cash back action because it seems to be a succes.

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Mark den Hartog
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Re: Is this post serious?
In reply to leighton w, Jan 27, 2013

leighton w wrote:

Really doesn't hurt to have the video, if you don't like it, don't use it, that simple.

it's just software anyway I only used it to see what it does but never used it in real life.

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csn
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Re: A true D700 successor
In reply to michaeladawson, Jan 27, 2013

michaeladawson wrote:

csn wrote:

Robin Casady wrote:

Dream on. Not going to happen.

I don't see why not. It would be a natural move on Nikon's part mating existing components and would solve multiple issues at once. People gripe about D800 file size and low fps. This would remedy both of those issues while maintaining very high IQ. Furthermore, because it is using existing (off the self) components, development costs would be low. As an engineer, I would find this solution a no-brainer.

Because it's doubtful Nikon wants to have 4 FX bodies to maintain. Or are you suggesting they stop making the D800? I don't think you are. Now add to it a high MP pro body like the D4X that some people want and you now have 5 FX bodies to maintain.

Proliferation of models is not such an issue when it is done through reusing existing subsystems. The auto industry is an example that does this with great succes.

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Robin Casady
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Re: A true D700 successor
In reply to csn, Jan 28, 2013

csn wrote:

It's simple. Nikon is loosing sales because potential customers (like me) want neither the D600 (too entry level feel) nor the D800 (slow fps and cumbersome file size).

Show me the data. This is just speculation on your part. My speculation is that such a camera would mostly eat into Nikon sales of other models. The number of increased total sales may be insufficient to counteract the added cost of making, stocking, distributing, and advertising another body. If it ate into D800/E sales it would lower the quantities of 36 MP chips, raising their unit cost.

The D600 is an entry level FX body. Nikon could discount it a bit (which is already happening) and would sell zillion of them.

The D800/800E are specialist FX bodies with pixel counts in the stratosphere; they will always have their special place with landcape, product and studio artist who need that kind of image detail.

The world is changing. Resolution that was once acceptable is now too low. You just need to catch up. You think 24 MP is acceptable, but 36 MP is stratospheric. We are only talking about a linear resolution increase of about 20%, and file size increase of about 50%.

The rest who want a semi-pro 'jack-of-all-trade' FX body would be happy with the D750, which would nicely slot in between the D600/800 pair in the mid $2K price range.

Yes, this is a proliferation of bodies but it covers the entire FX market. Reading the posts in various Nikon related forums, one gets a sense that there is a giant hole in Nikon's FX line up, which needs some serious plugging.

The pros who need high fps and smaller file sizes have the D4. So, your complaint is really just that the D4 is to expensive.

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Kerry Pierce
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Replay of last month's thread titled "I want a d700 successor".
In reply to csn, Jan 28, 2013

Personally, I would have liked a camera such as you describe, but my d750 is now called a d3s, which is an upgrade to the d700 in every way that I care about.   Unfortunately, it is an expensive upgrade.

Regardless, there was a long thread on this last month, linked here.  Pretty much the same idea that you present, if you're interested in those replies.

Kerry

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ScottRH
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Re: A true D700 successor: D600 sensor in D800 body ... and fur gods sake, leave the damn video
In reply to csn, Jan 28, 2013

There is clear gap between d800 an d600, and I am sure Nikon knows this and part of their strategy. They will not ignore the successor of the d700 and d300 combination. That will be the d750 fx and d400 dx.

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Aurora0026
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Re: A true D700 successor
In reply to CeleryBeats, Jan 28, 2013

The sucessor will be a D800s with sRaw and more fps I think. A D750 or similar will never be produced.

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ScottRH
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Re: A true D700 successor
In reply to Aurora0026, Jan 28, 2013

Yes it will.

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tundracamper
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Re: A true D700 successor
In reply to Robin Casady, Jan 28, 2013

csn wrote:

It's simple. Nikon is loosing sales because potential customers (like me) want neither the D600 (too entry level feel) nor the D800 (slow fps and cumbersome file size).

Show me the data. This is just speculation on your part. My speculation is that such a camera would mostly eat into Nikon sales of other models. The number of increased total sales may be insufficient to counteract the added cost of making, stocking, distributing, and advertising another body. If it ate into D800/E sales it would lower the quantities of 36 MP chips, raising their unit cost.

The D600 is an entry level FX body. Nikon could discount it a bit (which is already happening) and would sell zillion of them.

The D800/800E are specialist FX bodies with pixel counts in the stratosphere; they will always have their special place with landcape, product and studio artist who need that kind of image detail.

The world is changing. Resolution that was once acceptable is now too low. You just need to catch up. You think 24 MP is acceptable, but 36 MP is stratospheric. We are only talking about a linear resolution increase of about 20%, and file size increase of about 50%.

The rest who want a semi-pro 'jack-of-all-trade' FX body would be happy with the D750, which would nicely slot in between the D600/800 pair in the mid $2K price range.

Yes, this is a proliferation of bodies but it covers the entire FX market. Reading the posts in various Nikon related forums, one gets a sense that there is a giant hole in Nikon's FX line up, which needs some serious plugging.

The pros who need high fps and smaller file sizes have the D4. So, your complaint is really just that the D4 is to expensive.

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I wonder why my 12 MP images are still selling then. One of the primary viewing devices is something like an iPhone or an iPad. I don't see most photographers needing 36 MP. Some yes, but not the majority. JMHO.

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b33g33
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Re: A true D700 successor
In reply to csn, Jan 28, 2013

csn wrote:

It's simple. Nikon is loosing sales because potential customers (like me) want neither the D600 (too entry level feel) nor the D800 (slow fps and cumbersome file size).

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The sales figures indicate otherwise. I think you're falling into the common fallacy of thinking that whatever makes sense to you makes sense to everyone else.

If you want a true D700 replacement it would have
- A D4 sensor in a D800 body

- Be able to shoot 6.5 FPS/9 FPS with grip

- Have useable ISO up to 25,600

- Be priced similar to or above the D800

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ralittle2
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Re: A true D700 successor
In reply to Robin Casady, Jan 28, 2013

Robin Casady wrote:

csn wrote:

It's simple. Nikon is loosing sales because potential customers (like me) want neither the D600 (too entry level feel) nor the D800 (slow fps and cumbersome file size).

Show me the data. This is just speculation on your part. My speculation is that such a camera would mostly eat into Nikon sales of other models. The number of increased total sales may be insufficient to counteract the added cost of making, stocking, distributing, and advertising another body. If it ate into D800/E sales it would lower the quantities of 36 MP chips, raising their unit cost.

Perhaps, but overall revenue is what matters. The increased sales may, and in my estimation, be higher than the D800/E sales. Many companies greatly increase revenue by taking parts from different bins and with very little engineering come out with an entirely different product. This has been going on for a long time. Think Ford Mustang with the underpinnings of the Falcon. Mercedes did this most recently when they came out with the CLS, taking the underpinnings of the E-class and expanding the market. Now others have followed, and for good reason... VW CC, BMW 6-series Gran Coupe, and Audi A7.

The D600 is an entry level FX body. Nikon could discount it a bit (which is already happening) and would sell zillion of them.

The D800/800E are specialist FX bodies with pixel counts in the stratosphere; they will always have their special place with landcape, product and studio artist who need that kind of image detail.

The world is changing. Resolution that was once acceptable is now too low. You just need to catch up. You think 24 MP is acceptable, but 36 MP is stratospheric. We are only talking about a linear resolution increase of about 20%, and file size increase of about 50%.

Agreed, but who knows what Nikon has up their sleeve. Maybe a D4 variant with this chip in it?

The rest who want a semi-pro 'jack-of-all-trade' FX body would be happy with the D750, which would nicely slot in between the D600/800 pair in the mid $2K price range.

Yes, this is a proliferation of bodies but it covers the entire FX market. Reading the posts in various Nikon related forums, one gets a sense that there is a giant hole in Nikon's FX line up, which needs some serious plugging.

The pros who need high fps and smaller file sizes have the D4. So, your complaint is really just that the D4 is to expensive.

With all due respect, it isn't just the pros who want a higher fps camera. Many folks like myself, who have kids playing various sports can't make do with the D800 nor can afford the D4. And if the "lowly resolution" of the D4 isn't what it used to be, but it's what the pros need then your comments about resolution seem to be in conflict.

I can see the market for a D400 & a D750. Now, Nikon isn't about to call me up and ask me what I think, but as I see it they can expand the market or try to live off what they think the consumer needs. Ask the American auto industry how that worked out for them in the 70's.

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