Some pointless discussions lately Locked

Started Jan 27, 2013 | Discussions
This thread is locked.
vkphoto
Senior MemberPosts: 1,618
Some pointless discussions lately
Jan 27, 2013

It is just my opinion only but, for what it’s worth,  I’d like to share it with you.

Lately I see a lot of threads where same frustrations are shared again and again.

Replace *** with “will sell it” or “am not buying it”.

“Because Fuji X is not up to professional standards I ***”

“Because Fuji X raw files conversion doesn’t exist  I  ***”

“Because Fuji X is not on display in my local shop I ***”

“My other XYZ camera is so phenomenal, so I ***”

Or simple questions such as “What raw converter to use?”, “Will lens XYZ work with camera XYZ?” etc. are asked regardless that forum search is readily available.

Question to forum mods, is it possible to create “sticky notes” in the forum? At least two of them.

One, let’s call it something like “Fuji X in the world of professional photography”, will link to excellent galleries created by DaveKaiPiper,  chris24net, mike kobal and many other professional photographers here. It would be a great inspiration to new (and not so) Fuji X users.

Another one “Processing tips and techniques” will  offer member’s  wisdom how to use ACR, Silkypix, RPP and many other excellent  tools.

It may help to reduce the number of silly debates and allow productive members to focus on constructive discussions.

Thanks,

vkphoto


autoy
Forum MemberPosts: 58Gear list
Re: Some pointless discussions lately
In reply to vkphoto, Jan 27, 2013

I like this idea but I don't really mind all the topics beign in the same forum. I'd take a harder mod line, closing duplicate topics, deleting troll posts and all that.

 autoy's gear list:autoy's gear list
Fujifilm X-E1 Fujifilm XF 18-55mm F2.8-4 R LM OIS Fujifilm XF 35mm F1.4 R
bestbyte
Regular MemberPosts: 155Gear list
Re: Some pointless discussions lately
In reply to vkphoto, Jan 27, 2013

vkphoto wrote:

It is just my opinion only but, for what it’s worth, I’d like to share it with you.

Lately I see a lot of threads where same frustrations are shared again and again.

Replace *** with “will sell it” or “am not buying it”.

“Because Fuji X is not up to professional standards I ***”

“Because Fuji X raw files conversion doesn’t exist I ***”

“Because Fuji X is not on display in my local shop I ***”

“My other XYZ camera is so phenomenal, so I ***”

Or simple questions such as “What raw converter to use?”, “Will lens XYZ work with camera XYZ?” etc. are asked regardless that forum search is readily available.

Question to forum mods, is it possible to create “sticky notes” in the forum? At least two of them.

One, let’s call it something like “Fuji X in the world of professional photography”, will link to excellent galleries created by DaveKaiPiper, chris24net, mike kobal and many other professional photographers here. It would be a great inspiration to new (and not so) Fuji X users.

Another one “Processing tips and techniques” will offer member’s wisdom how to use ACR, Silkypix, RPP and many other excellent tools.

It may help to reduce the number of silly debates and allow productive members to focus on constructive discussions.

Thanks,

vkphoto


You couldn't say it any better.....Sometime I feel people get paid to bring rubbish talk against anything FujiFilm onto this forum. Its sad really

TThorne
Senior MemberPosts: 2,556Gear list
Re: Some pointless discussions lately
In reply to vkphoto, Jan 27, 2013

I'm really happy that you like your X-Cam/s as do I, but criticism of the tool is just as valuable to potential buyers as tips, instructions, and examples of the positive aspects of the camera. Just because owners do not like to see any mention of flaws in the equipment they chose to their money on does not mean that information is silly or non constructive. Would you also suggest a sticky of all the known issues and obstacles potential buyers should know prior to purchase? Or how about a sticky that points out the various types of photography and the level of difficulty that might be experienced if using one of the current X-Cams?

-- hide signature --

A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on. - Sir Winston Churchill

 TThorne's gear list:TThorne's gear list
Leica M Typ 240 Sony Alpha 7S Sony Alpha 7R Leica Summilux-M 21mm f/1.4 Asph Leica Summilux-M 35mm f/1.4 ASPH +5 more
autoy
Forum MemberPosts: 58Gear list
Re: Some pointless discussions lately
In reply to TThorne, Jan 27, 2013

TThorne wrote:

I'm really happy that you like your X-Cam/s as do I, but criticism of the tool is just as valuable to potential buyers as tips, instructions, and examples of the positive aspects of the camera. Just because owners do not like to see any mention of flaws in the equipment they chose to their money on does not mean that information is silly or non constructive. Would you also suggest a sticky of all the known issues and obstacles potential buyers should know prior to purchase? Or how about a sticky that points out the various types of photography and the level of difficulty that might be experienced if using one of the current X-Cams?

-- hide signature --

A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on. - Sir Winston Churchill

It's not that there can't be any criticism, it's that every little niggle with the X cameras is so completely overblown with dozen of repeated threads at this point that's totally misguiding newcomers and filling the forum with noise.

 autoy's gear list:autoy's gear list
Fujifilm X-E1 Fujifilm XF 18-55mm F2.8-4 R LM OIS Fujifilm XF 35mm F1.4 R
TThorne
Senior MemberPosts: 2,556Gear list
Re: Some pointless discussions lately
In reply to autoy, Jan 27, 2013

autoy wrote:

TThorne wrote:

I'm really happy that you like your X-Cam/s as do I, but criticism of the tool is just as valuable to potential buyers as tips, instructions, and examples of the positive aspects of the camera. Just because owners do not like to see any mention of flaws in the equipment they chose to their money on does not mean that information is silly or non constructive. Would you also suggest a sticky of all the known issues and obstacles potential buyers should know prior to purchase? Or how about a sticky that points out the various types of photography and the level of difficulty that might be experienced if using one of the current X-Cams?

-- hide signature --

A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on. - Sir Winston Churchill

It's not that there can't be any criticism, it's that every little niggle with the X cameras is so completely overblown with dozen of repeated threads at this point that's totally misguiding newcomers and filling the forum with noise.

As for misguiding newcomers, I offer the following. Levels of ease and comfortability with any camera are purely subjective and are never absolute. There are people who say that the X-Series is not suitable for sports type photography, and I would hesitate to disagree with them because it is a perfectly valid conclusion for a person to draw. However, there is a poster here who was clever enough to take some great high speed ice hockey photos, with the infamously slow 60mm nonetheless. I would personally rather go down that path and find clever ways to make it work for me, as I have done, but that doesn't make my answer the right one, and what is overblown to one person may be insurmountable to another based on their needs.

As for forum noise... I don't know what everyone's lives here look like on a daily basis, but if I couldn't handle the noise on this forum, I would certainly find cause to take my own life.

-- hide signature --

A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on. - Sir Winston Churchill

 TThorne's gear list:TThorne's gear list
Leica M Typ 240 Sony Alpha 7S Sony Alpha 7R Leica Summilux-M 21mm f/1.4 Asph Leica Summilux-M 35mm f/1.4 ASPH +5 more
briny
Regular MemberPosts: 272Gear list
Re: Some pointless discussions lately
In reply to TThorne, Jan 27, 2013

TThorne wrote:

I'm really happy that you like your X-Cam/s as do I, but criticism of the tool is just as valuable to potential buyers as tips, instructions, and examples of the positive aspects of the camera. Just because owners do not like to see any mention of flaws in the equipment they chose to their money on does not mean that information is silly or non constructive. Would you also suggest a sticky of all the known issues and obstacles potential buyers should know prior to purchase? Or how about a sticky that points out the various types of photography and the level of difficulty that might be experienced if using one of the current X-Cams?

-- hide signature --

A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on. - Sir Winston Churchill

There's no reason why a sticky thread on Processing Tips and Techniques couldn't cover known issues such as auto-focus speed and raw processing, and offer suggestions for the best work-arounds. I think this would be very useful.

This forum has lots of experienced and helpful posters. Unfortunately a lot of the most helpful posts tend to get buried when the same "contentious" topics get hashed out over and over again. Just my 2 cents.

John Bean (UK)
Forum ProPosts: 18,034
Moderation note
In reply to vkphoto, Jan 27, 2013

Stickies are not possible.

Discussion of moderation (in general) is not permitted in any forum except Open talk and that's where threads of this type belong, not here. I will add only that there is absolutely nothing wrong with expressing opinions - good or bad - about Fujifilm cameras in this forum provided the forum rules  are followed when making or replying to a post.

Please do not continue this OT thread. Self moderation is always the best option, I'd rather not have to lock this thread but I will if I have to.

-- hide signature --

John Bean [GMT]
"Note: If pictures and physical have access, please in kind prevail, thank you for understand." - quotation from an ebay listing.

nixda
Senior MemberPosts: 1,876Gear list
Re: Some pointless discussions lately
In reply to vkphoto, Jan 27, 2013

vkphoto wrote:

Or simple questions such as “What raw converter to use?”, “Will lens XYZ work with camera XYZ?” etc. are asked regardless that forum search is readily available.

That's a general problem in any forum. However, I don't mind it that much. I see three possible scenarios:

1. The answer could be provided right there

2. Some nice soul could link to another thread where the question has been answered satisfactorily. Stickies might not be that useful, because of 3.

3. A fresh, discussion of a topic could reveal new insights, such as things learned since the last thread, or simply prompt one to reevaluate one's stance on things

4. If one knows the answer already and isn't inclined to do (1) or (2), one can safely ignore the post

 nixda's gear list:nixda's gear list
Fujifilm X-E1 Fujifilm XF 18-55mm F2.8-4 R LM OIS Fujifilm XF 14mm F2.8 R Fujifilm XF 27mm F2.8 Fujifilm XF 55-200mm F3.5-4.8 R LM OIS
vkphoto
Senior MemberPosts: 1,618
Re: Moderation note
In reply to John Bean (UK), Jan 27, 2013

John Bean (UK) wrote:

Stickies are not possible.

Discussion of moderation (in general) is not permitted in any forum except Open talk and that's where threads of this type belong, not here. I will add only that there is absolutely nothing wrong with expressing opinions - good or bad - about Fujifilm cameras in this forum provided the forum rules are followed when making or replying to a post.

Please do not continue this OT thread. Self moderation is always the best option, I'd rather not have to lock this thread but I will if I have to.

-- hide signature --

John Bean [GMT]
"Note: If pictures and physical have access, please in kind prevail, thank you for understand." - quotation from an ebay listing.

Stikies are not possible? OK, John, thanks for the answer and reminder to re read 1984.

MrChristopher
Contributing MemberPosts: 999Gear list
Re: Moderation note
In reply to vkphoto, Jan 27, 2013

It's pretty easy to ignore the woe is me posts and the related ones. If someone is unhappy just let them be. I agree stickies could be helpful but apparently they're not allowed. Oh well, those are the rules. I lovey x100 and quite frankly I don't lose sleep if others don't feel the same way. I seek out posts here from those who have good technical insight to share and those who post inspiring images taken with their X camera. I pretty much ignore everything else. This approach serves me well.

 MrChristopher's gear list:MrChristopher's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix X100 Fujifilm X-E1 Fujifilm XF 18-55mm F2.8-4 R LM OIS +1 more
John Bean (UK)
Forum ProPosts: 18,034
Re: Moderation note
In reply to MrChristopher, Jan 27, 2013

MrChristopher wrote:

I agree stickies could be helpful but apparently they're not allowed. Oh well, those are the rules.

It's nothing to do with the rules or being "allowed" - I wrote that stickies are not possible and that's exactly what I meant. The DPR forum software has no means of making a post "sticky".

-- hide signature --

John Bean [GMT]
"Note: If pictures and physical have access, please in kind prevail, thank you for understand." - quotation from an ebay listing.

marike6
Senior MemberPosts: 5,070Gear list
Re: Some pointless discussions lately
In reply to vkphoto, Jan 27, 2013

Completely agree with the OP as people in almost ALL of the DPR forums don't seem to EVER use the search previous threads to see if a question has been already asked.

As far as the seemingly endless "Fuji isn't this" or "X-Trans isn't this", it's not always easy to avoid such threads.  Often they are like train wrecks that you just can't look away from.  What's more is even within other threads, there are users who troll, bash, or gripe about all things Fuji.  As a satisfied Fuji user, it makes this forum and the X10 forum, at times, a bit unpleasant place to post.  It's the same on the Nikon FX forum where there are literally daily "asked and answered" threads about well covered "D800 Left AF issues", "D600 Dust", "Shame on Nikon", etc.  For satisfied users such as myself, it often feels like another parallel camera universe where the best cameras are suddenly the worst with the most problems.   With all the negative posts, yet all the superb X-Trans images, I sometimes feel that all the complaints don't match up with the reality.

By the way, on the X10 forum, I've even experienced cases of moderators bashing Fuji, and trashing the as of yet unshipped X20 as "Fuji's newest disaster".  It's kind of disheartening when you are super excited about a camera, you pre-order it, yet you have to read all this kind of negative talk.   Besides, I thought moderators were supposed to mitigate trolling. (Please note: I'm aware that moderators work for free and do a great job that I very much appreciate).

Anyway, I don't know about "sticky notes" but I don't see why a simple "Fuji X System FAQ" couldn't be created.  And every time someone posts a "asked and answered" question, people could simply post a reply with the link to the "Fuji X System FAQ".

 marike6's gear list:marike6's gear list
Nikon Coolpix P330 Nikon D800 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH2 Fujifilm X-E1 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/4G ED VR +7 more
Zardoz
Senior MemberPosts: 1,249Gear list
Re: Some pointless discussions lately
In reply to vkphoto, Jan 27, 2013

The thing I love about threads like these is that their creators are completely oblivious to the fact that they're doing the exact same thing they're complaining about... or often worse, since now we have a thread that isn't even about cameras!

If you don't like this forums content, make better threads and better posts and raise the bar.  The more threads we have like ​this​ one, the worse things are going to get.

marike6
Senior MemberPosts: 5,070Gear list
Re: Some pointless discussions lately
In reply to Zardoz, Jan 27, 2013

Zardoz wrote:

The thing I love about threads like these is that their creators are completely oblivious to the fact that they're doing the exact same thing they're complaining about... or often worse, since now we have a thread that isn't even about cameras!

If you don't like this forums content, make better threads and better posts and raise the bar. The more threads we have like ​this​ one, the worse things are going to get.

The OP is trying to start a discussion about how to remove all the duplicate posts, and in turn make this forum better.  How exactly is an effort to find ways to improve this forum going to make things worse?  If something is not done about repeat questions, endless moaning, trolling, Fuji bashing, etc. then things will never improve.

Fuji, like all camera companies is not perfect, but they are constantly pushing the envelope and make absolutely great gear.  If we allow trolls, complainers, and Fuji bashers to set the forum tone as one of collection of unhappy X users, Fuji may be undeservedly negatively stigmatized for years to come.

 marike6's gear list:marike6's gear list
Nikon Coolpix P330 Nikon D800 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH2 Fujifilm X-E1 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/4G ED VR +7 more
Zardoz
Senior MemberPosts: 1,249Gear list
Re: Some pointless discussions lately
In reply to marike6, Jan 27, 2013

The OP doesn't have the power to do that, and discussion of moderation is only permitted in the Open Talk forum.  Additionally, none of the other forums on DPR have the agenda of removing negative post to protect the camera vendor.

It doesn't sound particularly even handed to want to remove all the so called "duplicate" negative posts, and yet there's no mention of all the "duplicate" positive posts. There are plenty of utterly worthless threads both negative and positive. If you're not interested, the solution is to skip over them.

BillyInya
Senior MemberPosts: 1,318Gear list
Re: Some pointless discussions lately
In reply to Zardoz, Jan 28, 2013

Zardoz wrote:

The OP doesn't have the power to do that, and discussion of moderation is only permitted in the Open Talk forum. Additionally, none of the other forums on DPR have the agenda of removing negative post to protect the camera vendor.

It doesn't sound particularly even handed to want to remove all the so called "duplicate" negative posts, and yet there's no mention of all the "duplicate" positive posts. There are plenty of utterly worthless threads both negative and positive. If you're not interested, the solution is to skip over them.

Absolute rubbish.

There is a concerted attempt to trash Fujifilm, and in particular, the X-Trans innovation at every possible opportunity. I don't mind constructive criticism of anything if it is based on fact but rarely is it. Pure negative fantasy bumblings that I and others are becoming very tired of around here.

Funny thing is it is usually the same 'ole user identities over and over and over and over again.

Cheers

 BillyInya's gear list:BillyInya's gear list
Fujifilm X-E1 Nikon D7000 Tokina AT-X Pro 12-24mm f/4 (IF) DX Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6G ED-IF Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D +8 more
marike6
Senior MemberPosts: 5,070Gear list
Re: Some pointless discussions lately
In reply to BillyInya, Jan 28, 2013

BillyInya wrote:

Zardoz wrote:

The OP doesn't have the power to do that, and discussion of moderation is only permitted in the Open Talk forum. Additionally, none of the other forums on DPR have the agenda of removing negative post to protect the camera vendor.

It doesn't sound particularly even handed to want to remove all the so called "duplicate" negative posts, and yet there's no mention of all the "duplicate" positive posts. There are plenty of utterly worthless threads both negative and positive. If you're not interested, the solution is to skip over them.

Absolute rubbish.

There is a concerted attempt to trash Fujifilm, and in particular, the X-Trans innovation at every possible opportunity. I don't mind constructive criticism of anything if it is based on fact but rarely is it. Pure negative fantasy bumblings that I and others are becoming very tired of around here.

Funny thing is it is usually the same 'ole user identities over and over and over and over again.

Cheers

+1. And ignoring repeat or negative posts is the not an effective solution since users pushing their own "anti-X" agendas usually make their voices heard anyway, often within other threads so a that a useful or interesting post suddenly becomes negative and confrontational.

 marike6's gear list:marike6's gear list
Nikon Coolpix P330 Nikon D800 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH2 Fujifilm X-E1 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/4G ED VR +7 more
Zardoz
Senior MemberPosts: 1,249Gear list
Re: Some pointless discussions lately
In reply to BillyInya, Jan 28, 2013

BillyInya wrote:

There is a concerted attempt to trash Fujifilm, and in particular, the X-Trans innovation at every possible opportunity. I don't mind constructive criticism of anything if it is based on fact but rarely is it. Pure negative fantasy bumblings that I and others are becoming very tired of around here.

If the negative posts were fantasy, as wish so desperately wish to believe, it would be trivial to disprove them with facts and examples.  And yet, time and again, you fail to do so... even when explicitly asked for evidence.

The fact is, every system has weaknesses, and as new people discover them they're going to create threads about it asking for solutions or expressing their dissatisfaction in that system's forum.  Wishing that they'll go away is only going to end in disappointment for you.

BillyInya
Senior MemberPosts: 1,318Gear list
Re: Some pointless discussions lately
In reply to Zardoz, Jan 28, 2013

Zardoz wrote:

BillyInya wrote:

There is a concerted attempt to trash Fujifilm, and in particular, the X-Trans innovation at every possible opportunity. I don't mind constructive criticism of anything if it is based on fact but rarely is it. Pure negative fantasy bumblings that I and others are becoming very tired of around here.

If the negative posts were fantasy, as wish so desperately wish to believe, it would be trivial to disprove them with facts and examples. And yet, time and again, you fail to do so... even when explicitly asked for evidence.

The fact is, every system has weaknesses, and as new people discover them they're going to create threads about it asking for solutions or expressing their dissatisfaction in that system's forum. Wishing that they'll go away is only going to end in disappointment for you.

Don't cleverly try to state the obvious now.

You know as well as I and others that if there is ANYTHING negative posted you/ratty will jump in like a mad dog on heat blaming the Fuji X-Trans sensor, or the Fuji X-Pro1 or the X-E1 and trashing Fujifilm. That is if you are not the one starting the negativity in the first place.

Yet, very strangely, when there is FACTUAL INDISPUTABLE REAL WORLD PROOF of the superiority of the X-Trans sensor technology you/ratty will jump in again just as quickly trying to claim it is ONLY the photographer responsible for the image quality seen and nothing to do with the camera used.

Buring Man with the Fujifilm X-Pro1 is a case in point.

This happens ALL THE TIME, same 'ole line from you/ratty over and over and over and over again. And heaven forbid if anyone calls you out on your bent negative agenda then they will then almost certainly have to endure a sustained personal "attack" from multiple identities all strangely echoing each other.

I don't mind it myself because I suspect it is only one sad person behind it but for others things may not be so transparent.

Cheers

 BillyInya's gear list:BillyInya's gear list
Fujifilm X-E1 Nikon D7000 Tokina AT-X Pro 12-24mm f/4 (IF) DX Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6G ED-IF Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D +8 more
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads