DP2M In Perspective

Started Jan 23, 2013 | Discussions
jcollier
Forum MemberPosts: 83
Like?
DP2M In Perspective
Jan 23, 2013

Alfred Stieglitz, Ansel Adams, Diane Arbus, Dorothea Lange, Sally Mann,  Lee Freidlander, Edward Weston…and many others all have a few things in common. They never complained about how heavy their equipment was, or not being able to shoot above ASA (ISO) 400, or how pretty/ugly their cameras were, or short battery life, or miniscule differences in dynamic range when viewed under a microscope, or whether their autofocus speed and accuracy is better/worse than some mythical standard.

What they also had in common was that they had taken the time to really learn how to get the most from their equipment. They had to think, compose, plan and to anticipate their shots. They were also committed to their subjects and the best possible image quality. This is the difference between the “art of photography” and simply taking pictures.

Some of my most enjoyable time was spent learning photography with a Minolta SRT 101, and later a Leica M3. Also, some of my favorite images were made with these “tools”. In recent years I’ve moved to Cannon equipment (primarily a 5Dii) and L lenses. However, these are still just tools. There is better equipment for capturing certain scenes under extreme circumstances. I’ve never missed a shot because I didn’t have better equipment. It was because of circumstances or lack of skill on the part of the photographer. These have all been learning experiences.

I now also have a DP2M. There has been an extensive and prolonged litany on its short comings and limitations. That doesn’t matter. If you take the time to learn the camera, plan, compose, anticipate and are willing to work on the “art of photography” you can produce stunning, world class imagery.

-- hide signature --

jcollier

Canon EOS 5D Mark II Sigma DP2
If you believe there are incorrect tags, please send us this post using our feedback form.
Laurence Matson
Forum ProPosts: 11,248Gear list
Like?
Re: DP2M In Perspective
In reply to jcollier, Jan 23, 2013

Amen to that.

And lest we forget, the glass-plate toting Edward S. Curtis:

Princess Angeline in an 1896 photograph by Edward Sheriff Curtis.

jcollier wrote:

Alfred Stieglitz, Ansel Adams, Diane Arbus, Dorothea Lange, Sally Mann, Lee Freidlander, Edward Weston…and many others all have a few things in common. They never complained about how heavy their equipment was, or not being able to shoot above ASA (ISO) 400, or how pretty/ugly their cameras were, or short battery life, or miniscule differences in dynamic range when viewed under a microscope, or whether their autofocus speed and accuracy is better/worse than some mythical standard.

What they also had in common was that they had taken the time to really learn how to get the most from their equipment. They had to think, compose, plan and to anticipate their shots. They were also committed to their subjects and the best possible image quality. This is the difference between the “art of photography” and simply taking pictures.

Some of my most enjoyable time was spent learning photography with a Minolta SRT 101, and later a Leica M3. Also, some of my favorite images were made with these “tools”. In recent years I’ve moved to Cannon equipment (primarily a 5Dii) and L lenses. However, these are still just tools. There is better equipment for capturing certain scenes under extreme circumstances. I’ve never missed a shot because I didn’t have better equipment. It was because of circumstances or lack of skill on the part of the photographer. These have all been learning experiences.

I now also have a DP2M. There has been an extensive and prolonged litany on its short comings and limitations. That doesn’t matter. If you take the time to learn the camera, plan, compose, anticipate and are willing to work on the “art of photography” you can produce stunning, world class imagery.

-- hide signature --

jcollier

-- hide signature --

Laurence
laurence at appledore-farm dot com
Sometimes, life is going to hit you with a brick. Don't lose faith.
Steve Jobs
http://www.pbase.com/lmatson
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr
http://www.howardmyerslaw.com

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
jcollier
Forum MemberPosts: 83
Like?
Re: DP2M In Perspective
In reply to Laurence Matson, Jan 23, 2013

Very true. Also, Mathew Brady.

-- hide signature --

jcollier

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Zone8
Forum ProPosts: 15,658
Like?
Re: DP2M In Perspective
In reply to Laurence Matson, Jan 23, 2013

Laurence Matson wrote: Amen to that. And lest we forget, the glass-plate toting Edward S. Curtis:

I agree - also consider the famous Abraham Brothers who lugged large format glass plate cameras into dangerous rock climbing locations in the English Lake District.

"Taking a Victorian camera onto the crags was a very different prospect to ordinary landscape photography. In dangerous and difficult conditions, laden with heavy equipment (often weighing over 20lbs - some were 35lbs for camera alone), the Brothers would often be perched on a rocky outcrop or ledge, perilously close to disaster, in pursuit of a dramatic landscape shot or to capture a climber in action."

http://www.armitt.com/abraham_brothers.htm

Having used 5x4 and 6x9, with of course a substantial tripod into similar terrains for many years, I also find the moaning about cameras that are, by comparison, almost pocketable rather childish. Your case about learning the craft, instead of moaning about this camera feature or that, was well stated M'Lud.

-- hide signature --

Zone8: Although I am a handsome genius, when I stand in front of a mirror, I vaguely recognise the ugly idjit standing on the other side!
LINK: For B+W with Epson 1400 (and other models) using black ink only PLUS other useful tips:
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/epson1400-B&W.htm
Cleaning DSLR Sensors, including Kodak DSLR Factory Cleaning method:
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/KodakDCS-sensorcleaning.htm
Solving back/front focus problems on Sigma and most other DSLRs
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1027&message=35565277
PDF format list of lenses you can print or download - covers Italian Flag YES/NO for DCS 14n but applies to others. http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/ItiFlagLensList.pdf

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
unknown member
(unknown member)
Like?
Wise words
In reply to jcollier, Jan 23, 2013

jcollier wrote:

..

I now also have a DP2M. There has been an extensive and prolonged litany on its short comings and limitations. That doesn’t matter. If you take the time to learn the camera, plan, compose, anticipate and are willing to work on the “art of photography” you can produce stunning, world class imagery.

-- hide signature --

jcollier

But then the critics will again point out what this forum is about:

'Welcome to the Sigma Camera Talk Forum, the place to discuss Sigma digital cameras (and Foveon X3 technology).'

and will happily interpret that to give their narrow-mindedness free rein.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
jcollier
Forum MemberPosts: 83
Like?
Re: DP2M In Perspective
In reply to jcollier, Jan 23, 2013

This is a test shot exercising the DP2M's dynamic range and color.

Old Town, San Diego, CA

-- hide signature --

jcollier

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
larryj
Veteran MemberPosts: 7,909Gear list
Like?
Re: DP2M In Perspective
In reply to jcollier, Jan 23, 2013

Well Stated jcollier:  Photography has always been about learning your craft and doing the hard steps to achieve the wanted result.  Thanks for reminding us of this fundamental part of producing great photos.

-- hide signature --

Cheers,
larryj
If you can see the light, you can photograph it
Quote from Myron Woods

 larryj's gear list:larryj's gear list
Sigma SD1 Merrill Sigma 24-70mm F2.8 EX DG HSM Sigma 150-500mm F5-6.3 DG OS HSM Sigma 105mm F2.8 EX DG OS HSM Sigma 18-35mm F1.8 DC HSM +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Raist3d
Forum ProPosts: 33,342Gear list
Like?
They Also didnt bang the drum on how
In reply to jcollier, Jan 23, 2013

Great their equipment or particular brands of equipment where - they focused on photography and knew  their camera didnt make them as a photographer because that  does no make sense.  They knew its up to them to capture a compelling g photograph, not their equipment.

-- hide signature --

Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- I photograph black cats in coal mines at night...
“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” - George Orwell

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
jcollier
Forum MemberPosts: 83
Like?
Edward Weston Preparing For A Shoot
In reply to jcollier, Jan 23, 2013

He would really have appreciated a DP2M, even with all its faults.

The LCD is difficult to see in bright light, but the images are great.

-- hide signature --

jcollier

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
DMillier
Forum ProPosts: 17,942
Like?
Re: DP2M In Perspective
In reply to jcollier, Jan 23, 2013

Absolutely true. It has long been my opinion that it matters not in the slightest what camera you use.

But, if you are going to argue that everyone should concentrate on making photos and no one should be focusing on the limitations of Sigma equipment, you should be fair and not concentrate on the advantages of Sigma equipment either, or the disadvantages of non Sigma equipment.

Fact is, this is a gear forum, not 1x.com.  Do away with the gear talk and the forum has no function.

-- hide signature --
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
NancyP
Senior MemberPosts: 4,173Gear list
Like?
Re: DP2M In Perspective
In reply to jcollier, Jan 23, 2013

It is enjoyable to shoot with a good fixed-prime-lens camera such as the DP2M. Because there are fewer choices, one is forced to work a little harder when your normal habit would be to say, that's clearly a telephoto shot, etc.

 NancyP's gear list:NancyP's gear list
Sigma DP3 Merrill
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
unknown member
(unknown member)
Like?
You got that wrong
In reply to DMillier, Jan 23, 2013

DMillier wrote:

Fact is, this is a gear forum, not 1x.com. Do away with the gear talk and the forum has no function.

This has become a jeer, not a gear forum.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
jcollier
Forum MemberPosts: 83
Like?
Re: DP2M In Perspective
In reply to DMillier, Jan 23, 2013

Actually, the point is to understand the limitations of one's equipment and how to maximize its capabilities for the intended purpose. It seems that many people on the forum are consumed by analyzing imperfections of the tools rather than going out and using them to make great images. My Galaxy S2 phone camera takes good pictures. There are many cameras that can make great images if you know how to use them. "Learning" is a work in progress.

-- hide signature --

jcollier

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
DMillier
Forum ProPosts: 17,942
Like?
Re: DP2M In Perspective
In reply to NancyP, Jan 23, 2013

That's certainly a strong argument against using zooms.

Scottish landscape photographer/educator Bruce Percy argues that zooms discourage the feet movement necessary to search out the strongest compositions and that you never learn instinctively what a subject will look like at a particular focal length because you have a continuously variable selection to hand.

I think there is something in it.

-- hide signature --
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
plasnu
Regular MemberPosts: 310Gear list
Like?
Re: DP2M In Perspective
In reply to jcollier, Jan 23, 2013

jcollier wrote:

This is a test shot exercising the DP2M's dynamic range and color.

Old Town, San Diego, CA

-- hide signature --

jcollier

HDR processed?

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
jcollier
Forum MemberPosts: 83
Like?
Re: DP2M In Perspective
In reply to plasnu, Jan 23, 2013

No, just converted to tif and adjusted in ACR.

-- hide signature --

jcollier

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
KM Legacy
Senior MemberPosts: 1,955
Like?
Re: DP2M In Perspective
In reply to jcollier, Jan 23, 2013

Amen. All those famous photographic artists would have been delighted to have a tool which could at least equal 6x7 cm film in a tiny package, like the Sigma DPxMs. They wouldn't care that DPs couldn't AF as fast as a DSLR. They wouldn't care about their battery life, because DP batteries are still lighter than 4x5 holders and tripods.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Roland Karlsson
Forum ProPosts: 21,056Gear list
Like?
Re: I think they cared
In reply to DMillier, Jan 23, 2013

DMillier wrote:

Absolutely true. It has long been my opinion that it matters not in the slightest what camera you use.

Hmmm ... I dont know David.

Those old good photographers did carry around large cameras after all. They did that for a reason. You could find much smaller and convenient cameras back then.

So - I assume they cared very much about what camera they used.

 Roland Karlsson's gear list:Roland Karlsson's gear list
Sigma DP3 Merrill Sigma DP2 Quattro Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX100 III Pentax K-3 Pentax smc DA 15mm F4 ED AL Limited +8 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Roland Karlsson
Forum ProPosts: 21,056Gear list
Like?
Re: DP2M In Perspective
In reply to KM Legacy, Jan 23, 2013

KM Legacy wrote:

Amen. All those famous photographic artists would have been delighted to have a tool which could at least equal 6x7 cm film in a tiny package, like the Sigma DPxMs. They wouldn't care that DPs couldn't AF as fast as a DSLR. They wouldn't care about their battery life, because DP batteries are still lighter than 4x5 holders and tripods.

Maybe.

They also used tedious printing methods, like carbon printing.

But all this is really moot. We live in 2013, and very few of us would lug around a wet plate camera and make carbon prints.

All this said - I like simple cameras. Gimme a camera with aperture ring and exposure time wheel, both with an A setting. And then manual focussing. I still find that setting superior. And you still can find it on Leica.

 Roland Karlsson's gear list:Roland Karlsson's gear list
Sigma DP3 Merrill Sigma DP2 Quattro Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX100 III Pentax K-3 Pentax smc DA 15mm F4 ED AL Limited +8 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
MoreorLess
Senior MemberPosts: 3,001
Like?
Re: DP2M In Perspective
In reply to jcollier, Jan 23, 2013

jcollier wrote:

Alfred Stieglitz, Ansel Adams, Diane Arbus, Dorothea Lange, Sally Mann, Lee Freidlander, Edward Weston…and many others all have a few things in common. They never complained about how heavy their equipment was, or not being able to shoot above ASA (ISO) 400, or how pretty/ugly their cameras were, or short battery life, or miniscule differences in dynamic range when viewed under a microscope, or whether their autofocus speed and accuracy is better/worse than some mythical standard.

This to me seems to run counter to your arguement as on some level surely the Sigma DP's are cameras of convenience? there a fraction of the size of DSLR's that offer superior resolution, AF etc.

Ultimately they carried heavy equipment to get the best possible image, they knew and cared a great deal about the limations of their equipment and did there best to get around it. Today carrying heavy equipment doesnt just mean more resolution or access to camera movements, it can also mean better autofocus, faster FPS etc that can most definately help achieve a shot.

Of course for landscape use alone those newer advanatges arent an issue but were someone like Ansel around today in the shape he was in when he used large format I'm guessing he'd either still use it or the best digital alternative he could afford, be that a D800e, medium format DSLR or some kind of scan back, I doubt he'd use the the DP1 or DP2 M's to save what is ultimately a pretty minor amount of weight.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads