Another shooting, Albuquerque this time

Started Jan 20, 2013 | Discussions
LeRentier
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Another shooting, Albuquerque this time
Jan 20, 2013

My paper reports another shooting, some teenager who shot five people in Albuquerque, New Mexico, using an assault rifle plus a few other tools.
Three of the shot and killed people were children.
Police is trying to sort out details like identify everyone
The shooter was arrested.
I really don't think this is a clean way of controlling population levels.

mamallama
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Re: Another shooting, Albuquerque this time
In reply to LeRentier, Jan 20, 2013

LeRentier wrote:

My paper reports another shooting, some teenager who shot five people in Albuquerque, New Mexico, using an assault rifle plus a few other tools.
Three of the shot and killed people were children.
Police is trying to sort out details like identify everyone
The shooter was arrested.
I really don't think this is a clean way of controlling population levels.

It's so common in America nowadays that no one even take notice unless the victims are first graders.

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Don_D
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Re: Another shooting, Albuquerque this time
In reply to mamallama, Jan 20, 2013

mamallama wrote:

LeRentier wrote:

My paper reports another shooting, some teenager who shot five people in Albuquerque, New Mexico, using an assault rifle plus a few other tools.
Three of the shot and killed people were children.
Police is trying to sort out details like identify everyone
The shooter was arrested.
I really don't think this is a clean way of controlling population levels.

It's so common in America nowadays that no one even take notice unless the victims are first graders.

I seems to be getting worse....or is it just my imagination?

I am truly sorry for the victims, but it will help with the eventual "gun violence" bill.

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Chato
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This would "appear" to be a private grudge
In reply to Don_D, Jan 20, 2013

Don_D wrote:

mamallama wrote:

LeRentier wrote:

My paper reports another shooting, some teenager who shot five people in Albuquerque, New Mexico, using an assault rifle plus a few other tools.
Three of the shot and killed people were children.
Police is trying to sort out details like identify everyone
The shooter was arrested.
I really don't think this is a clean way of controlling population levels.

It's so common in America nowadays that no one even take notice unless the victims are first graders.

I seems to be getting worse....or is it just my imagination?

I am truly sorry for the victims, but it will help with the eventual "gun violence" bill.

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Don

And not a random shooting. Kid could have used a baseball bat, but that wouldn't make the news.

Dave

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95_9C1
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Re: This would "appear" to be a private grudge
In reply to Chato, Jan 20, 2013

Chato wrote:

Don_D wrote:

mamallama wrote:

LeRentier wrote:

My paper reports another shooting, some teenager who shot five people in Albuquerque, New Mexico, using an assault rifle plus a few other tools.
Three of the shot and killed people were children.
Police is trying to sort out details like identify everyone
The shooter was arrested.
I really don't think this is a clean way of controlling population levels.

It's so common in America nowadays that no one even take notice unless the victims are first graders.

I seems to be getting worse....or is it just my imagination?

I am truly sorry for the victims, but it will help with the eventual "gun violence" bill.

-- hide signature --

Don

And not a random shooting. Kid could have used a baseball bat, but that wouldn't make the news.

Dave

apparently, he used an "assault type" weapon ...

attach that word to anything

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KEVZPHOTOS
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The biggest MYTH regarding GUN violence.
In reply to Chato, Jan 20, 2013

Chato wrote;

And not a random shooting. Kid could have used a baseball bat, but that wouldn't make the news.

However, this is one of the biggest MYTHS out there regarding gun violence.

Ie: that the perpetrator would have used "other means" IF guns were not available.

There is NO data or evidence to suggest that IF guns were not easily available...that these shooting spree killers would have indeed used other methods to kill.

Killing with a firearm is easy, clinical, sterile, distant, dissassociated, etc.

Murdering a group of people at close-contact range with a bat, knife, iron bar, shovel is not only a far greater challenge it is also much harder psychologically.

I suspect, that IF guns had not been available...that most of these shooting spree killers would NOT have killed large numbers or groups of people at all.

They may have become regular muderers (ie: one at a time, etc)....but certainly not mass/group killers of the type we have seen lately.

KEV

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Chato
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Re: The biggest MYTH regarding GUN violence.
In reply to KEVZPHOTOS, Jan 20, 2013

KEVZPHOTOS wrote:

Chato wrote;

And not a random shooting. Kid could have used a baseball bat, but that wouldn't make the news.

However, this is one of the biggest MYTHS out there regarding gun violence.

Ie: that the perpetrator would have used "other means" IF guns were not available.

There is NO data or evidence to suggest that IF guns were not easily available...that these shooting spree killers would have indeed used other methods to kill.

Other than the fact that 40 percent of US homicides are not done with fireams, you are absolutely right.

Dave

Killing with a firearm is easy, clinical, sterile, distant, dissassociated, etc.

Murdering a group of people at close-contact range with a bat, knife, iron bar, shovel is not only a far greater challenge it is also much harder psychologically.

I suspect, that IF guns had not been available...that most of these shooting spree killers would NOT have killed large numbers or groups of people at all.

They may have become regular muderers (ie: one at a time, etc)....but certainly not mass/group killers of the type we have seen lately.

KEV

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KEVZPHOTOS
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Re: The biggest MYTH regarding GUN violence.
In reply to Chato, Jan 20, 2013

Chato wrote:

KEVZPHOTOS wrote:

Chato wrote;

And not a random shooting. Kid could have used a baseball bat, but that wouldn't make the news.

However, this is one of the biggest MYTHS out there regarding gun violence.

Ie: that the perpetrator would have used "other means" IF guns were not available.

There is NO data or evidence to suggest that IF guns were not easily available...that these shooting spree killers would have indeed used other methods to kill.

Other than the fact that 40 percent of US homicides are not done with fireams, you are absolutely right.

That's a red-herring line of spin and you damn well know it.

There's no direct correlation (linkage) between that stat...and the actual shooter-spree killers at all.

You could never build a case on this line of thinking.

KEV

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RossAndrew
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Re: The biggest MYTH regarding GUN violence.
In reply to Chato, Jan 20, 2013

Chato wrote:

KEVZPHOTOS wrote:

Chato wrote;

And not a random shooting. Kid could have used a baseball bat, but that wouldn't make the news.

You don't think that some one could have overpowered him if he only had a baseball bat

However, this is one of the biggest MYTHS out there regarding gun violence.

Ie: that the perpetrator would have used "other means" IF guns were not available.

There is NO data or evidence to suggest that IF guns were not easily available...that these shooting spree killers would have indeed used other methods to kill.

Other than the fact that 40 percent of US homicides are not done with fireams, you are absolutely right.

I guess 60% are done with firearms then A?

Andy

Dave

Killing with a firearm is easy, clinical, sterile, distant, dissassociated, etc.

Murdering a group of people at close-contact range with a bat, knife, iron bar, shovel is not only a far greater challenge it is also much harder psychologically.

I suspect, that IF guns had not been available...that most of these shooting spree killers would NOT have killed large numbers or groups of people at all

They may have become regular muderers (ie: one at a time, etc)....but certainly not mass/group killers of the type we have seen lately.

KEV

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Chato
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Re: The biggest MYTH regarding GUN violence.
In reply to KEVZPHOTOS, Jan 21, 2013

KEVZPHOTOS wrote:

Chato wrote:

KEVZPHOTOS wrote:

Chato wrote;

And not a random shooting. Kid could have used a baseball bat, but that wouldn't make the news.

However, this is one of the biggest MYTHS out there regarding gun violence.

Ie: that the perpetrator would have used "other means" IF guns were not available.

There is NO data or evidence to suggest that IF guns were not easily available...that these shooting spree killers would have indeed used other methods to kill.

Other than the fact that 40 percent of US homicides are not done with fireams, you are absolutely right.

That's a red-herring line of spin and you damn well know it.

That's a ​fact​ and you damn well know that. Sticking your head in the sand doesn't change ​facts.

There's no direct correlation (linkage) between that stat...and the actual shooter-spree killers at all.

If we deleted mass murders from our statistics, there would be no change in our statisitics.

You could never build a case on this line of thinking.

You don't have a line of thinking, simply mindless repititions of your paranoia.

Dave

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Chato
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Re: The biggest MYTH regarding GUN violence.
In reply to RossAndrew, Jan 21, 2013

RossAndrew wrote:

Chato wrote:

KEVZPHOTOS wrote:

Chato wrote;

And not a random shooting. Kid could have used a baseball bat, but that wouldn't make the news.

You don't think that some one could have overpowered him if he only had a baseball bat

One man in the house, he goes for him first. After that, not a problem for a determined psycho. In fact that's the point. Who but a determined psycho would commit these kinds of acts?

I'll be good money that this kid was leaving behind him a trail of warning bells - But you can't commit people in America until they actually try to kill someone. Not because of the law - But because we simply have no place to put them.

Dave

However, this is one of the biggest MYTHS out there regarding gun violence.

Ie: that the perpetrator would have used "other means" IF guns were not available.

There is NO data or evidence to suggest that IF guns were not easily available...that these shooting spree killers would have indeed used other methods to kill.

Other than the fact that 40 percent of US homicides are not done with fireams, you are absolutely right.

I guess 60% are done with firearms then A?

Andy

Dave

Killing with a firearm is easy, clinical, sterile, distant, dissassociated, etc.

Murdering a group of people at close-contact range with a bat, knife, iron bar, shovel is not only a far greater challenge it is also much harder psychologically.

I suspect, that IF guns had not been available...that most of these shooting spree killers would NOT have killed large numbers or groups of people at all

They may have become regular muderers (ie: one at a time, etc)....but certainly not mass/group killers of the type we have seen lately.

KEV

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"Everyone who has ever lived, has lived in Modern Times"

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This is not a religious comment, merely a historical fact.

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knox
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Re: The biggest MYTH regarding GUN violence.
In reply to KEVZPHOTOS, Jan 21, 2013

I agree 100% Kev

KEVZPHOTOS wrote:

Chato wrote;

And not a random shooting. Kid could have used a baseball bat, but that wouldn't make the news.

However, this is one of the biggest MYTHS out there regarding gun violence.

Ie: that the perpetrator would have used "other means" IF guns were not available.

There is NO data or evidence to suggest that IF guns were not easily available...that these shooting spree killers would have indeed used other methods to kill.

Killing with a firearm is easy, clinical, sterile, distant, dissassociated, etc.

Murdering a group of people at close-contact range with a bat, knife, iron bar, shovel is not only a far greater challenge it is also much harder psychologically.

I suspect, that IF guns had not been available...that most of these shooting spree killers would NOT have killed large numbers or groups of people at all.

They may have become regular muderers (ie: one at a time, etc)....but certainly not mass/group killers of the type we have seen lately.

KEV

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Leo G
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Re: The biggest MYTH regarding GUN violence.
In reply to knox, Jan 21, 2013

Really interesting that all of the shootings these days are committed with that AR15.  Something that we hadn't been hearing much of at all has all of a sudden become the rage of the shooters choice.

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Marcamera
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Dumb car analogy
In reply to KEVZPHOTOS, Jan 21, 2013

KEVZPHOTOS wrote:

Chato wrote;

And not a random shooting. Kid could have used a baseball bat, but that wouldn't make the news.

However, this is one of the biggest MYTHS out there regarding gun violence.

Ie: that the perpetrator would have used "other means" IF guns were not available.

There is NO data or evidence to suggest that IF guns were not easily available...that these shooting spree killers would have indeed used other methods to kill.

Killing with a firearm is easy, clinical, sterile, distant, dissassociated, etc.

Murdering a group of people at close-contact range with a bat, knife, iron bar, shovel is not only a far greater challenge it is also much harder psychologically.

I suspect, that IF guns had not been available...that most of these shooting spree killers would NOT have killed large numbers or groups of people at all.

They may have become regular muderers (ie: one at a time, etc)....but certainly not mass/group killers of the type we have seen lately.

KEV

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"No problem can be solved at the level of consciousness which created it" - Albert Einstein

Makes me think of arguments of gun maniacs, the more people are armed , the safer it is.

Car argument:

If there is a place on the road, where caution is required because there is a winding road stretch, with frequent accidents, it would make sense to drive through it as fast as possible to limit the amount of time that one is on that dangerous stretch.

Makes sense, gun guys, no?

Rgds

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Mentor_1
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It's just collateral damage from gun sales. nt
In reply to mamallama, Jan 21, 2013

mamallama wrote:

LeRentier wrote:

My paper reports another shooting, some teenager who shot five people in Albuquerque, New Mexico, using an assault rifle plus a few other tools.
Three of the shot and killed people were children.
Police is trying to sort out details like identify everyone
The shooter was arrested.
I really don't think this is a clean way of controlling population levels.

It's so common in America nowadays that no one even take notice unless the victims are first graders.

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Mentor
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Stop global whining
Stupid should hurt
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LeRentier
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Re: It's just collateral damage from gun sales. nt
In reply to Mentor_1, Jan 21, 2013

Mentor_1 wrote:

mamallama wrote:

LeRentier wrote:

My paper reports another shooting, some teenager who shot five people in Albuquerque, New Mexico, using an assault rifle plus a few other tools.
Three of the shot and killed people were children.
Police is trying to sort out details like identify everyone
The shooter was arrested.
I really don't think this is a clean way of controlling population levels.

It's so common in America nowadays that no one even take notice unless the victims are first graders.

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Mentor
May the light be with you
Stop global whining
Stupid should hurt
Gear: My Lab Lara, cameras, lens, tripod, monopod, cars, MH, motorcycles (yah bought another), helmet, yacht, shoes etc. too much stuff.

Yes, after all, five is not that many, is it ?

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Chato
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Here's another killing, but NOT covered by the media
In reply to Marcamera, Jan 21, 2013

Marcamera wrote:

KEVZPHOTOS wrote:

Chato wrote;

And not a random shooting. Kid could have used a baseball bat, but that wouldn't make the news.

However, this is one of the biggest MYTHS out there regarding gun violence.

Ie: that the perpetrator would have used "other means" IF guns were not available.

There is NO data or evidence to suggest that IF guns were not easily available...that these shooting spree killers would have indeed used other methods to kill.

Killing with a firearm is easy, clinical, sterile, distant, dissassociated, etc.

Murdering a group of people at close-contact range with a bat, knife, iron bar, shovel is not only a far greater challenge it is also much harder psychologically.

I suspect, that IF guns had not been available...that most of these shooting spree killers would NOT have killed large numbers or groups of people at all.

They may have become regular muderers (ie: one at a time, etc)....but certainly not mass/group killers of the type we have seen lately.

KEV

-- hide signature --

"No problem can be solved at the level of consciousness which created it" - Albert Einstein

Makes me think of arguments of gun maniacs, the more people are armed , the safer it is.

Car argument:

If there is a place on the road, where caution is required because there is a winding road stretch, with frequent accidents, it would make sense to drive through it as fast as possible to limit the amount of time that one is on that dangerous stretch.

Makes sense, gun guys, no?

Rgds

Lunatic on the loose

And a quick glance at this story reveals that everyone knew this guy was a batsht crazy. And I mean everyone. His neighbors, his friends, his family and even the Police - But what the heck, there was no place to put him.

So, it turns out he cut some buddy of his into little bits and pieces. Big deal. It's not as if he commited a mass murder.

Dave

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boggis the cat
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There are very strong links between gun availability and violence
In reply to Chato, Jan 21, 2013

Chato wrote:

KEVZPHOTOS wrote:

Chato wrote:

KEVZPHOTOS wrote:

Chato wrote;

And not a random shooting. Kid could have used a baseball bat, but that wouldn't make the news.

However, this is one of the biggest MYTHS out there regarding gun violence.

Ie: that the perpetrator would have used "other means" IF guns were not available.

There is NO data or evidence to suggest that IF guns were not easily available...that these shooting spree killers would have indeed used other methods to kill.

Other than the fact that 40 percent of US homicides are not done with fireams, you are absolutely right.

That's a red-herring line of spin and you damn well know it.

That's a ​fact​ and you damn well know that. Sticking your head in the sand doesn't change ​facts.

Unless you are suggesting that perpetrators of mass murders would have been just as lethal if they used knives, rocks, etc. then it seems that the efficient lethality of firearms is an important issue.

There's no direct correlation (linkage) between that stat...and the actual shooter-spree killers at all.

If we deleted mass murders from our statistics, there would be no change in our statisitics.

You could never build a case on this line of thinking.

You don't have a line of thinking, simply mindless repititions of your paranoia.

You should look up comparative data on murder between different nations.  There is a very strong link between higher availability of firearms and higher murder rate, firearms and violent offences against women and children, firearms and public incidence of violence and so on.  Availability of weapons lowers the bar for those liable to resort to violence; and when they do resort to violence, firearms are the most effective at causing injury and death.

1. Where there are more guns there is more homicide (literature review).

2. Across high-income nations, more guns = more homicide.

3. Across states, more guns = more homicide

4. Across states, more guns = more homicide

Harvard School of Public Health

Pretending this is otherwise does not make it so.

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Wheatfield
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Re: The biggest MYTH regarding GUN violence.
In reply to Chato, Jan 21, 2013

Chato wrote:


That's a ​fact​ and you damn well know that. Sticking your head in the sand doesn't change ​facts.

The fact is, your country seems to have more mass murders with firearms than other countries have with other weapon types. We don't have people going out and beating a dozen people to death with a golf club.

I've heard said that the Sandy Bay shooter could have done as much damage with a baseball as he did with a gun. I'm calling bullsh!t on that one. Killing two dozen people with a club would take the staying power of an Olympic athlete. Most people wouldn't have the physical stamina to do it, especially when people started fighting back.

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Chato
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Re: There are very strong links between gun availability and violence
In reply to boggis the cat, Jan 21, 2013

boggis the cat wrote:

Chato wrote:

KEVZPHOTOS wrote:

Chato wrote:

KEVZPHOTOS wrote:

Chato wrote;

And not a random shooting. Kid could have used a baseball bat, but that wouldn't make the news.

However, this is one of the biggest MYTHS out there regarding gun violence.

Ie: that the perpetrator would have used "other means" IF guns were not available.

There is NO data or evidence to suggest that IF guns were not easily available...that these shooting spree killers would have indeed used other methods to kill.

Other than the fact that 40 percent of US homicides are not done with fireams, you are absolutely right.

That's a red-herring line of spin and you damn well know it.

That's a ​fact​ and you damn well know that. Sticking your head in the sand doesn't change ​facts.

Unless you are suggesting that perpetrators of mass murders would have been just as lethal if they used knives, rocks, etc. then it seems that the efficient lethality of firearms is an important issue.

What's the difference? Killing fifty people in one's and two's or killing them at once? These are all the acts of lunatics.

There's no direct correlation (linkage) between that stat...and the actual shooter-spree killers at all.

If we deleted mass murders from our statistics, there would be no change in our statisitics.

You could never build a case on this line of thinking.

You don't have a line of thinking, simply mindless repititions of your paranoia.

You should look up comparative data on murder between different nations. There is a very strong link between higher availability of firearms and higher murder rate, firearms and violent offences against women and children, firearms and public incidence of violence and so on. Availability of weapons lowers the bar for those liable to resort to violence; and when they do resort to violence, firearms are the most effective at causing injury and death.

I have looked up the data. The Swiss have almost as many weapons as we do, and a murder rate half of that of Australia and England. Norway is another high gun country, and aside from Mr. Brevik, they too have a low murder rate.

1. Where there are more guns there is more homicide (literature review).

2. Across high-income nations, more guns = more homicide.

3. Across states, more guns = more homicide

4. Across states, more guns = more homicide

Harvard School of Public Health

Pretending this is otherwise does not make it so.

Fake data doesn't work either. With all due repect to a ​Poster​ whom I respect, that link is total garbage. Just Google "Homicide rates" in Wiki. And "gun ownership"

Dave

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