4 hours ago
|
Capture One and Adobe Camera Raw - prefered settings
5 months ago
|
In my article on the front page, I only had time to show the default settings of both Adobe Camera Raw and Capture One. I'd genuinely like to see the results you're getting.
I chose the default settings because those represent what the software makers think most people will be happy with, most of the time. There are too many permutations and it too quickly becomes a matter of taste for it to become possible for me to find 'the best' possible settings. That's why I've made the original Raw files available for users to propose alternatives.
In response to the few concrete suggestions offered in the comments section, I've tried adjusting noise reduction (in particular the noise reduction detail slider) and moire settings (which don't appear to solve the 'mazing' in the test scene), but cannot escape the brushstroke-like patterning visible at default settings (though it's never as pronounced as its appearance in ACR).
I'm sure there are better results to be had - please post your best conversions of the files on the front page, detailing the settings you've used.
Click here to read the first look at Capture One support and download the test Raw files
Richard - dpreview.com
|
Re: Capture One and Adobe Camera Raw - prefered settings
In reply to R Butler,
5 months ago
|
I haven't been playing with CO 7.02 long enough to find a sweet spot, but I noticed one peculiar thing of interest regarding X-trans files processed with it. Contrary to regular files, the "detail" slider in advanced noise reduction has a very noticeable effect on the level of details displayed, whether luminance noise reduction is used or not. It's like having a variable AA filter (set to 0, it's very soft, set to 100, it's like an AA filter-less camera). On the other hand, there is a trade off between this slider and others. The higher the "detail" setting is, the quicker the "sharpening amount" slider will produce artefacts / unnatural rendering, and, at higher sensitivities, luminance noise will look more digital (it looks like a very, very fine buzzy pattern of short (a few pixels) vertical and horizontal straights).
I'll try to post examples tomorrow.
|
Re: Capture One and Adobe Camera Raw - prefered settings
In reply to R Butler,
5 months ago
|
R Butler wrote:
In response to the few concrete suggestions offered in the comments section, I've tried adjusting noise reduction (in particular the noise reduction detail slider) and moire settings (which don't appear to solve the 'mazing' in the test scene), but cannot escape the brushstroke-like patterning visible at default settings (though it's never as pronounced as its appearance in ACR).
I'm sure there are better results to be had - please post your best conversions of the files on the front page, detailing the settings you've used.
Click here to read the first look at Capture One support and download the test Raw files
Richard - dpreview.com
Richard
WRT the watercolouring the RAW seems no worse than the jpeg (I'm assuming you are looking at the tree behind the sign, not the palms)? In any event I've done my worst with the tram (PS I realise this won't be to everyone's taste)...
--
http://sgoldswoblog.wordpress.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sgoldswo/
|
Re: Capture One and Adobe Camera Raw - prefered settings
In reply to R Butler,
5 months ago
|
R Butler wrote:
In my article on the front page, I only had time to show the default settings of both Adobe Camera Raw and Capture One. I'd genuinely like to see the results you're getting.
I chose the default settings because those represent what the software makers think most people will be happy with, most of the time. There are too many permutations and it too quickly becomes a matter of taste for it to become possible for me to find 'the best' possible settings. That's why I've made the original Raw files available for users to propose alternatives.
In response to the few concrete suggestions offered in the comments section, I've tried adjusting noise reduction (in particular the noise reduction detail slider) and moire settings (which don't appear to solve the 'mazing' in the test scene), but cannot escape the brushstroke-like patterning visible at default settings (though it's never as pronounced as its appearance in ACR).
I'm sure there are better results to be had - please post your best conversions of the files on the front page, detailing the settings you've used.
Click here to read the first look at Capture One support and download the test Raw files
Richard - dpreview.com
why test on beta version as opposed to final version ? Did you think you could get better results with Capture One Pro 7.02 BETA?
|
Stupid question
In reply to R Butler,
5 months ago
|
R Butler wrote:
In my article on the front page, I only had time to show the default settings of both Adobe Camera Raw and Capture One. I'd genuinely like to see the results you're getting.
I chose the default settings because those represent what the software makers think most people will be happy with, most of the time. There are too many permutations and it too quickly becomes a matter of taste for it to become possible for me to find 'the best' possible settings. That's why I've made the original Raw files available for users to propose alternatives.
In response to the few concrete suggestions offered in the comments section, I've tried adjusting noise reduction (in particular the noise reduction detail slider) and moire settings (which don't appear to solve the 'mazing' in the test scene), but cannot escape the brushstroke-like patterning visible at default settings (though it's never as pronounced as its appearance in ACR).
I'm sure there are better results to be had - please post your best conversions of the files on the front page, detailing the settings you've used.
Click here to read the first look at Capture One support and download the test Raw files
Richard - dpreview.com
Aren't the crops of the trolley you posted on the front page in areas slightly out of focus? Does no one else see this?
|
Re: Capture One and Adobe Camera Raw - prefered settings
In reply to wandiba,
5 months ago
|
wandiba wrote:
why test on beta version as opposed to final version ? Did you think you could get better results with Capture One Pro 7.02 BETA?
No, but at the time of writing it was the only version Phase One could supply, since they hadn't yet announced the final version. I don't know how closely related the build I was sent is to the version related but I'm happy to try re-processing now I have the release version just to check there's no difference.
Richard - dpreview.com
|
Re: Capture One and Adobe Camera Raw - prefered settings
In reply to R Butler,
5 months ago
|
|
Re: Capture One and Adobe Camera Raw - prefered settings
In reply to R Butler,
5 months ago
|
|
Re: Stupid question
In reply to David McGaughey,
5 months ago
|
David McGaughey wrote:
R Butler wrote:
In my article on the front page, I only had time to show the default settings of both Adobe Camera Raw and Capture One. I'd genuinely like to see the results you're getting.
I chose the default settings because those represent what the software makers think most people will be happy with, most of the time. There are too many permutations and it too quickly becomes a matter of taste for it to become possible for me to find 'the best' possible settings. That's why I've made the original Raw files available for users to propose alternatives.
In response to the few concrete suggestions offered in the comments section, I've tried adjusting noise reduction (in particular the noise reduction detail slider) and moire settings (which don't appear to solve the 'mazing' in the test scene), but cannot escape the brushstroke-like patterning visible at default settings (though it's never as pronounced as its appearance in ACR).
I'm sure there are better results to be had - please post your best conversions of the files on the front page, detailing the settings you've used.
Click here to read the first look at Capture One support and download the test Raw files
Richard - dpreview.com
Aren't the crops of the trolley you posted on the front page in areas slightly out of focus? Does no one else see this?
They are - that's why I'm not trying to increase the sharpness to make up for that. Being out-of-focus doesn't explain the brushstroke-like rendering produced by ACR and (to my eye) just visible in the Capture One rendering. That crop is just trying to highlight the major concern we had about X-Trans Raw conversion - not every possible aspect.
Richard - dpreview.com
|
Re: Capture One and Adobe Camera Raw - prefered settings
In reply to sgoldswo,
5 months ago
|
sgoldswo wrote:
R Butler wrote:
In response to the few concrete suggestions offered in the comments section, I've tried adjusting noise reduction (in particular the noise reduction detail slider) and moire settings (which don't appear to solve the 'mazing' in the test scene), but cannot escape the brushstroke-like patterning visible at default settings (though it's never as pronounced as its appearance in ACR).
I'm sure there are better results to be had - please post your best conversions of the files on the front page, detailing the settings you've used.
Click here to read the first look at Capture One support and download the test Raw files
Richard - dpreview.com
Richard
WRT the watercolouring the RAW seems no worse than the jpeg (I'm assuming you are looking at the tree behind the sign, not the palms)? In any event I've done my worst with the tram (PS I realise this won't be to everyone's taste)...
That's better than I've managed.
I'll see what other people come up with (to see if it helps narrow-down which changes are most significant), then add another page to the article highlighting what's possible.
Thanks for your contribution.
Richard - dpreview.com
|
doubt
In reply to R Butler,
5 months ago
|
R Butler wrote:
In my article on the front page, I only had time to show the default settings of both Adobe Camera Raw and Capture One. I'd genuinely like to see the results you're getting.
I chose the default settings because those represent what the software makers think most people will be happy with, most of the time. There are too many permutations and it too quickly becomes a matter of taste for it to become possible for me to find 'the best' possible settings. That's why I've made the original Raw files available for users to propose alternatives.
In response to the few concrete suggestions offered in the comments section, I've tried adjusting noise reduction (in particular the noise reduction detail slider) and moire settings (which don't appear to solve the 'mazing' in the test scene), but cannot escape the brushstroke-like patterning visible at default settings (though it's never as pronounced as its appearance in ACR).
I'm sure there are better results to be had - please post your best conversions of the files on the front page, detailing the settings you've used.
Click here to read the first look at Capture One support and download the test Raw files
Richard - dpreview.com
Hi Richard,
In this forum we couldn't even agree on what should be considered as a baseline for testing, "default settings" or "the best possible".
I compared C1 settings to some other raw converters in their default settings ( ==> results ) and IMO, C1 produces better (slightly) output than OCC and (by margin) than ACR. With SilkyPix 5, Helicon closely to follow.
Others did similar testing and came to a different conclusion. So it is a personal choice at the end considering quality of the output, ease of use, workflow, price, etc.
But if you are looking to compare various raw converters at their optimal performance than you need to ask "credible" experts (from each manufacture) to defend their product while using the same raw file. Doubt it will ever happen
--
http://vkphotoblog.blogspot.ca/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vk-photo/
|
Re: Capture One and Adobe Camera Raw - prefered settings
In reply to R Butler,
5 months ago
|
7.0.2 conversion
This is a well-exposed frame and on the P1 it did not need anything other than:
Clarity (punch) 15
Sharpening amount 180
Any further sharpening increased the jaggies.. I tried to maintain the same color rendition as the OOC jpeg, actually a little more saturation could look better.
--
BobYIL
|
Re: Capture One and Adobe Camera Raw - prefered settings
In reply to R Butler,
5 months ago
|
7.0.2. conversion (2nd try)
Here's another try with some emphasis on saturation:
Exposure -0.51
Saturation 13
Clarity (switched to neutral) 20
All other settings are the same as in the first try above.
--
BobYIL
|
detail rendering with C1
In reply to R Butler,
5 months ago
|
my preferred default settings for Detail tab are as follows:
sharpening: amount 320, radius 0.4, threshhold 0.4
noise reduction:
both luminance and chroma at 0 for ISO 200-400, increasing as needed for higher ISO images.
noise reduction advanced:
detail: 30, film grain 0
Moire 0
BTW, you can save your favorite settings as default under the menu button for each subpanel.
Lastly, a word about labirynth-like patterns on a bill from DPREVIEW tabletop test image - I find that the jaggies match more or less exactly the mask pattern of Xtrans green channel, as per image below.
They do present a problem in certain types of images, for example - check out the "BY APPOINTMENT TO HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN" type in the upper left corner of the test image, and I don't believe either Fuji, Adobe or C1 can do much about that. It's one of the tradeoffs of Xtrans design. At least that's how I understand this.
|
Perhaps a bad idea...
In reply to R Butler,
5 months ago
|
They are - that's why I'm not trying to increase the sharpness to make up for that. Being out-of-focus doesn't explain the brushstroke-like rendering produced by ACR and (to my eye) just visible in the Capture One rendering. That crop is just trying to highlight the major concern we had about X-Trans Raw conversion - not every possible aspect.
Richard - dpreview.com
This wasn't made explicit - I think a lot of the commentators on that post now think that X-Trans is either soft or heavily artifact-filled.
|
Re: Perhaps a bad idea...
In reply to David McGaughey,
5 months ago
|
David McGaughey wrote:
They are - that's why I'm not trying to increase the sharpness to make up for that. Being out-of-focus doesn't explain the brushstroke-like rendering produced by ACR and (to my eye) just visible in the Capture One rendering. That crop is just trying to highlight the major concern we had about X-Trans Raw conversion - not every possible aspect.
Richard - dpreview.com
This wasn't made explicit - I think a lot of the commentators on that post now think that X-Trans is either soft or heavily artifact-filled.
Not soft but with artifacts. I'm still trying with P1-7.0.2 to find a way to eliminate the artifacts that appear with the slightest move of the sharpness slider. Moire too.. Enlarge and check the "screen" to the upper-right side of the queen's head. (The one on the left is from the D800E having no AA-filter like the X-Trans.)
D800E vs X-Trans
--
BobYIL
|
Re: Capture One and Adobe Camera Raw - prefered settings
In reply to R Butler,
5 months ago
|
R Butler wrote:
In my article on the front page, I only had time to show the default settings of both Adobe Camera Raw and Capture One. I'd genuinely like to see the results you're getting.
Great idea.
Here is the default output from the bundled software, Raw File Converter EX, aka Silkypix 3.
Oddly enough, it walks all over ACR and Capture One.
I wonder why you didn't mention anything in your very brief article that Silkypix still does an excellent job, still better than anyone else?
What do you think?
--
Cheers
Trevor G
Silkypix tutorials at: http://photo.computerwyse.com
|
Silkypix 3, AKA Raw File Converter EX
In reply to Trevor G,
5 months ago
|
I agree, that is the best so far, for that particular area. Do you have the full-size image available anywhere? In David McGaughey's test, Silkypix (SP) was not remarkable.
Trevor G wrote:
Here is the default output from the bundled software, Raw File Converter EX, aka Silkypix 3. Oddly enough, it walks all over ACR and Capture One.
|
Re: detail rendering with C1
In reply to Imagefoundry,
5 months ago
|
Imagefoundry wrote:
Lastly, a word about labirynth-like patterns on a bill from DPREVIEW tabletop test image - I find that the jaggies match more or less exactly the mask pattern of Xtrans green channel, as per image below.They do present a problem in certain types of images, for example - check out the "BY APPOINTMENT TO HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN" type in the upper left corner of the test image, and I don't believe either Fuji, Adobe or C1 can do much about that. It's one of the tradeoffs of Xtrans design. At least that's how I understand this.
No surprises there.
|
Re: Silkypix 3, AKA Raw File Converter EX
In reply to CAcreeks,
5 months ago
|
CAcreeks wrote:
I agree, that is the best so far, for that particular area. Do you have the full-size image available anywhere? In David McGaughey's test, Silkypix (SP) was not remarkable.
Who is David McGaughey?
Yes, the full output is now uploaded in a separate thread.
Please let me know what you think...
--
Cheers
Trevor G
Silkypix tutorials at: http://photo.computerwyse.com
   |
|
Connect with dpreview
|
