FinePix HS50EXR vs. FUJIFILM X-S1 vs. Panasonic Lumix FZ200

Started Jan 15, 2013 | Discussions
wymjym
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Re: FinePix HS50EXR vs. FUJIFILM X-S1 vs. Panasonic Lumix FZ200
In reply to LTZ470, Jan 16, 2013

LTZ470 wrote:

Where are all of the X-S1 Bird Shots? and how about Close Ups?…is it that great? that it can shoot excellent close ups and birds?

Really interested in the X-S1, but with the lens problem you surely couldn't add a TC? and even a Canon 58mm 500D Close Up Lens would be extra weight on an already challenged lens mechanism?

The FZ200 is designed to accommodate TC's and Close Up lens easily and can out resolve the X-S1 due to this?

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Yes LTZ470, you win.

The fz200 does a lot of things better than the xs1 and I find that frustrating because……….every time I try out a different camera with plans on replacing the xs1 with it……..I can’t.

The XS1 fits my hands better, the flippy screen works better for my style of shooting, the ease of shooting in bright conditions is always refreshing, the logic and layout of the buttons is very easy on my mind and fingers, the evf is a huge +.

I have shimmed my ‘newer’ XS1 and the lens doesn’t droop

BTW….I am certain this looseness is a direct function of the relationship to the OD of the barrel : the inner ‘seal’. So it is not a mechanical issue as much as a tolerance one….

The resolving power is not up to 2012~2013 standards….period! I have a canon 500d and the raynox pro close-up set. With adapters I have tried them all….no handling issues but the final outcome isn’t all that great, especially when compared to other closeup+lens+camera combinations that I have. Given that, I have no compulsion to continue to point this out to myself by screwing them onto the lens.

Unlike you I want my (one) bridge camera to do it all, all of the time. I don’t even carry two pieces of glass with me unless I’m on a serious mission.

So……recognizing the image quality that is available with the fz200 (naked and with adapters) and also the handling, construction and available functions……I’m sticking with the XS1.

The xs1 has fuji quirks but if the image quality was better I would be so totally satisfied that it would harken back to my Minolta 7D days (didn’t know good from bad and loved everything I did).

Maybe the hs50 will fill the bill but I'm not going to be beta tester for fuji.

wj

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PAUL TILL
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Re: FinePix HS50EXR vs. FUJIFILM X-S1 vs. Panasonic Lumix FZ200
In reply to wymjym, Jan 16, 2013

And that about sums it up, until you've owned an X-S1 you really can't appreciate how nice it is.

Paul.

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jcmarfilph
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Re: FinePix HS50EXR vs. FUJIFILM X-S1 vs. Panasonic Lumix FZ200
In reply to Jostian, Jan 16, 2013

Jostian wrote:

at full optical on all bridgecams especially above 400iso you'll get that painted effect to some degree, just less so on the XS1, I think the FZ200 is probably the snappiest, pity about the poor sensor, a bit of a mismatch with such a great lens on the FZ200. see this 'painting' at 100 iso from the Sony HX200V, much worse than the XS1, just an example, just scroll down to the middle of the thread, http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3362871



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PAUL TILL
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X-S1 at ISO400
In reply to jcmarfilph, Jan 16, 2013

ISO400 with the original orbing sensor and super droopy lens.

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jcmarfilph
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Re: X-S1 at ISO400
In reply to PAUL TILL, Jan 16, 2013

PAUL TILL wrote:


ISO400 with the original orbing sensor and super droopy lens.

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ISO-800 again...


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PAUL TILL
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Re: X-S1 at ISO800
In reply to jcmarfilph, Jan 16, 2013

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Francis Carver
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Re: FinePix HS50EXR vs. FUJIFILM X-S1 vs. Panasonic Lumix FZ200
In reply to JohnDWewege, Jan 16, 2013

FZ200 = 0./43-inch sensor. Good reputation.

HS50 EXR = 0.5-inch sensor. No reputation yet at all.

X-S1 = 0.666-inch sensor. Okay reputation.

The FZ200 with the constant F2.8 lens and the Panny-magic seems to be as good (for video, at least) as any 1/2-inch sensor Fujifilm Finepix-cam, maybe even as good as the 2/3-inch sensor X-S1.

Problem with the X-S1 seems to be, according to some video users, in video mode it works quite fine outdoors in bright conditions, but it works totally horrid indoors and when the lights go down outdoors. In other words,, pretty awful low-liight performance (at least in video).

Fujifilm is now promising us "better video" in the HS50 EXR, and "much better video" in the X20. Time will tell. They had promised a whole lot before for the X-S1 and the X10, too. It is interesting, though, that the HS and S-series still retain EXR sensor, whereby with the X20 and X-series, it is X-TRANS for sensors now, so for X-series, EXR is spelled D-E-A-D. Not the easiest to follow the Fuji product line-up, that's for sure.

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Francis Carver
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Manual Zooming w. FinePix HS50EXR & X-S1
In reply to jcmarfilph, Jan 16, 2013

jcmarfilph wrote:

Unless you want to get the fastest shutter speed at full zoom and zoom video smoothly (handheld), it is no contest. HS50 hands down (at least on paper).

Well, ON PAPER and ON THE COMPUTER SCREEN, everything from Fujifilm looks like a world-class contender. The reality starts to seep in. 

For MANUAL ZOOMING, the X-S1 and the HS50 EXR should be equally good, once they have production copies of the HS50 released, someone having both can do us a nice product comparo between them. So far, the copy that the Fujiguys struggled with in their online demo video clip does not generate a whole lot of confidence for the HS50's quality.

If you like zooming WHILE YOU ARE RECORDING A VIDEO CLIP (like I love to do), you imply cannot seriously consider a servo zoom only camera, like the Panasonic Lumix FZ200. But even for still pix.... whereas you can manually whip-zoom from UWA to the tele end in 1/5th of a second or less with a manual zoom ring lens, it will take quite a bit longer to cover the full range with a servo zoom.

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Francis Carver
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Manual zooming versus servo zooming -- the FZ200 Death Sentencce
In reply to AdamT, Jan 16, 2013

AdamT wrote:

Errr, I take it you meant FZ200 here - Motorized zooms are smoother for Video than manual (hence why Camcorders have stuck with them) , also F2.8 @ 600mm of the Panny will give you far faster shutter speeds than the HS50 ever will .. The XS1 is helped along by its LARGE 2/3" sensor, the HS50 has both a slow lens and a pinhead sensor ..

Err, one of those "pinhead sensor" jokemasters here, folks.

Hey, Bud, since when is a 42x range zoom lens that starts at F2.8 and goes to F5.6 considered slow? Show me another one can do better.

Professional video lenses have both SERVO ZOOMS on them, and also MANUAL ZOOMING RINGS. It is not one -- or the other. If you have arthritis in the hands, a servo zoom might indeed be smoother. Otherwise, use a proper follow-focus gear on your manual zoom ring and an affixed which crank, and you will have super smooth zooms, whip zooms, and creep zooms with just a little practice.

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Francis Carver
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Fujifilm X-S2 / X-50 X-TRANS
In reply to Larry Winters, Jan 16, 2013

Larry Winters wrote:

Unless FF has increased the build quality along with all the other paper specs, its overpriced above $500. But I expect it will hit $499 and lower pretty fast.

Unless the HS50 really is smoking fast, I doubt it will dislodge my X-S1 for my tastes.

They are different product category cameras. The X-S1 is X-SERIES, and HS50 EXR is not.

On the other hand, the X-S1 has a "history" now.... and not a spotless virgin one at that, I might add. So, there is always hope (against hope??) with the HS50 EXR.

I would much rather have a bridge cam with a 1-inch sensor for $3,000, then I would know that the lens is actually a top-end Fujinon quality glass, closer to their professional video and cinema optics, and not an el-cheapo consumer glass.

I do applaud FF with their new and somewhat innovative X20, X100s and HS50 cameras. I'm sure everyone is holding their breath on the quality control front. I feel there are still many ex FF customers who want to come back, but it FF faulters this time around they may be gone forever.

Still fun to look, wish and possibly try as many as the budget allows though.

Absolutely correct. If they screw-up any of these new ones, I will NEVER look at another FF-cam as long as I live.

Now, what we would really need on the high-end of things, of course, is an X-series HS50, like an X-S2 or X-S50. 2/3-inch X-TRANS sensor -- well, a 1-inch size sensor would be even better. And a 42x range zoom lens F2.8-5.6, of course F2.8-4 would be better yet. I would even take the 1-inch sensor variant with the 26x zoom, matter of fact.

But a camera such as that would have to go for at least $1,500, so although lots of folks (like me) would spring for it, Fuji could not expect to sell many.

BTW, anybody "heard" anything about HS50 EXR's release date?

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Steen Bay
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Re: Fujifilm X-S2 / X-50 X-TRANS
In reply to Francis Carver, Jan 16, 2013

Francis Carver wrote:

BTW, anybody "heard" anything about HS50 EXR's release date?

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/50677138

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Francis Carver
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Re: Fujifilm X-S2 / X-50 X-TRANS
In reply to Steen Bay, Jan 16, 2013

Steen Bay wrote:

Francis Carver wrote:

BTW, anybody "heard" anything about HS50 EXR's release date?

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/50677138

So, Steen... I guess you know about as much on that as the rest of us, huh?

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Steen Bay
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Re: Fujifilm X-S2 / X-50 X-TRANS
In reply to Francis Carver, Jan 17, 2013

Francis Carver wrote:

Steen Bay wrote:

Francis Carver wrote:

BTW, anybody "heard" anything about HS50 EXR's release date?

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/50677138

So, Steen... I guess you know about as much on that as the rest of us, huh?

Pretty much, yes. Maybe he was talking about his HS30 instead? And btw, why is it that everybody is talking about the HS50, and not the SL1000 with a BSI-CMOS sensor and a 24-1200mm equivalent lens?

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Francis Carver
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HS50 EXR versus SL1000
In reply to Steen Bay, Jan 17, 2013

Steen Bay wrote:

why is it that everybody is talking about the HS50, and not the SL1000 with a BSI-CMOS sensor and a 24-1200mm equivalent lens?

I dunno, why? And just what the heck is the difference between a X-TRANS sensor and an EXR CMOS sensor and a BSI CMOS sensor when it comes to Fujifilm cameras? Sometime I think they have more senor types than camera models, he-he-he.

In response to your keen question.... I would say most folks don't give 2 hoots about the Finepix SL1000 because it has a tiny 1/2.3-inch sensor.... and it has no manual zooming capabilities at all. Not everyone wants power zooming in and out by pushing a small switch on a 50x zoom range lens camera, you know.

F6.5 max. open iris setting only at telephoto also does not help matters for the SL1000. Just my wild guess on that, anyhow.

http://www.fujifilmusa.com/products/digital_cameras/s/finepix_sl1000/specifications/

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Steen Bay
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Re: HS50 EXR versus SL1000
In reply to Francis Carver, Jan 17, 2013

Francis Carver wrote:

Steen Bay wrote:

why is it that everybody is talking about the HS50, and not the SL1000 with a BSI-CMOS sensor and a 24-1200mm equivalent lens?

I dunno, why? And just what the heck is the difference between a X-TRANS sensor and an EXR CMOS sensor and a BSI CMOS sensor when it comes to Fujifilm cameras? Sometime I think they have more senor types than camera models, he-he-he.

In response to your keen question.... I would say most folks don't give 2 hoots about the Finepix SL1000 because it has a tiny 1/2.3-inch sensor.... and it has no manual zooming capabilities at all. Not everyone wants power zooming in and out by pushing a small switch on a 50x zoom range lens camera, you know.

F6.5 max. open iris setting only at telephoto also does not help matters for the SL1000. Just my wild guess on that, anyhow.

http://www.fujifilmusa.com/products/digital_cameras/s/finepix_sl1000/specifications/

Personally I'd prefer a good old Bayer sensor like used in the SL1000 instead of an EXR or X-trans sensor, and the 1/2.3" BSI-CMOS sensor in SL1000 is actually just a tiny bit smaller than the 1/2" sensor in HS50. The SL1000 is a 5.6x crop camera and the HS50 is 5.4x crop, so the HS50 sensor has just about 7.5% larger area, which is so small a difference that it almost isn't worth to mention.

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jcmarfilph
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Re: HS50 EXR versus SL1000
In reply to Steen Bay, Jan 17, 2013

Steen Bay wrote:

Francis Carver wrote:

Steen Bay wrote:

why is it that everybody is talking about the HS50, and not the SL1000 with a BSI-CMOS sensor and a 24-1200mm equivalent lens?

I dunno, why? And just what the heck is the difference between a X-TRANS sensor and an EXR CMOS sensor and a BSI CMOS sensor when it comes to Fujifilm cameras? Sometime I think they have more senor types than camera models, he-he-he.

In response to your keen question.... I would say most folks don't give 2 hoots about the Finepix SL1000 because it has a tiny 1/2.3-inch sensor.... and it has no manual zooming capabilities at all. Not everyone wants power zooming in and out by pushing a small switch on a 50x zoom range lens camera, you know.

F6.5 max. open iris setting only at telephoto also does not help matters for the SL1000. Just my wild guess on that, anyhow.

http://www.fujifilmusa.com/products/digital_cameras/s/finepix_sl1000/specifications/

Personally I'd prefer a good old Bayer sensor like used in the SL1000 instead of an EXR or X-trans sensor, and the 1/2.3" BSI-CMOS sensor in SL1000 is actually just a tiny bit smaller than the 1/2" sensor in HS50. The SL1000 is a 5.6x crop camera and the HS50 is 5.4x crop, so the HS50 sensor has just about 7.5% larger area, which is so small a difference that it almost isn't worth to mention.

EXR is still better in high ISO and the processor on the HS50 is also better/faster hence faster AF, faster write times and shorter STS delay.

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Francis Carver
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HS50 EXR Specs
In reply to Steen Bay, Jan 17, 2013

Steen Bay wrote:

the 1/2.3" BSI-CMOS sensor in SL1000 is actually just a tiny bit smaller than the 1/2" sensor in HS50. The SL1000 is a 5.6x crop camera and the HS50 is 5.4x crop, so the HS50 sensor has just about 7.5% larger area, which is so small a difference that it almost isn't worth to mention.

No clue what you are talking about with the cropping part, however the fact is that a 0.5-inch diagonal sensor's total area in square millimeters is a bit larger than just 7.5 percent larger when compared to the surface area of a 0.43-inch diagonal sensor.

But yet, go right ahead, get the SL1000 Bayer -- it will be cheaper then the pricey HS50 EXRR, anyhow.

And talking of HS50 -- IMO Fujifilm had made a colossal mistake in giving this camera a non-standard 2.5mm audio input (external mic) jack. That was the standard for mono earhones in 1950s era transistor pocket radios. Wow, for $550, maybe we could have gotten a 3.5mm jack instead, huh? What you gonna plug into a 2.5mm microphone jack, anyhow? Let me guess -- a 2.5mm jacked little toy mic developed and sold by none other than Fujifilm?

Video Recording

1920 x 1080: 60 fps
1280 x 720: 60 fps
640 x 480: 30 fps

Well, if all the HS50 EXR can do in 1080p and 720p is 60p = 60fps, its usefulness will be reduced for the occasional overcranking for slow-mo. Hopefully it will be able to do at least 25p and 50p, even if not 24p. But if all it can do is 60p, like its online specifications state. I definitely would not buy it.

I know it says it can record VGA quality square video at 30fps, but who really uses that quality in the year 2013, hmmm?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/910167-REG/fujifilm_16286412_finepix_hs50_digital_camera.html

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Steen Bay
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HS50 sensor size
In reply to Francis Carver, Jan 17, 2013

Francis Carver wrote:

Steen Bay wrote:

the 1/2.3" BSI-CMOS sensor in SL1000 is actually just a tiny bit smaller than the 1/2" sensor in HS50. The SL1000 is a 5.6x crop camera and the HS50 is 5.4x crop, so the HS50 sensor has just about 7.5% larger area, which is so small a difference that it almost isn't worth to mention.

No clue what you are talking about with the cropping part, however the fact is that a 0.5-inch diagonal sensor's total area in square millimeters is a bit larger than just 7.5 percent larger when compared to the surface area of a 0.43-inch diagonal sensor.

If we want to know how large the active/effective sensor size is, then we can just compare the lens' actual FL and the equivalent FL :

HS50EXR - 4.4-185mm vs. 24-1000mm = app. 5.4x crop

SL1000 --- 4.3-215mm vs. 24-1200mm = app. 5.6x crop

..and a 5.4x crop sensor has app. 7.5 % larger area than a 5.6x crop sensor.

But yet, go right ahead, get the SL1000 Bayer -- it will be cheaper then the pricey HS50 EXRR, anyhow.

Won't get the SL1000, because I already have the Canon SX50, that also has a 1/2.3" (Bayer) BSI-CMOS sensor and a 24-1200mm equivalent lens, but on paper the SL1000 specs are actually a bit better than the SX50 specs (16mp, higher resolution EVF, etc.).

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Steen Bay
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Re: HS50 EXR versus SL1000
In reply to jcmarfilph, Jan 17, 2013

jcmarfilph wrote:

Steen Bay wrote:

Francis Carver wrote:

Steen Bay wrote:

why is it that everybody is talking about the HS50, and not the SL1000 with a BSI-CMOS sensor and a 24-1200mm equivalent lens?

I dunno, why? And just what the heck is the difference between a X-TRANS sensor and an EXR CMOS sensor and a BSI CMOS sensor when it comes to Fujifilm cameras? Sometime I think they have more senor types than camera models, he-he-he.

In response to your keen question.... I would say most folks don't give 2 hoots about the Finepix SL1000 because it has a tiny 1/2.3-inch sensor.... and it has no manual zooming capabilities at all. Not everyone wants power zooming in and out by pushing a small switch on a 50x zoom range lens camera, you know.

F6.5 max. open iris setting only at telephoto also does not help matters for the SL1000. Just my wild guess on that, anyhow.

http://www.fujifilmusa.com/products/digital_cameras/s/finepix_sl1000/specifications/

Personally I'd prefer a good old Bayer sensor like used in the SL1000 instead of an EXR or X-trans sensor, and the 1/2.3" BSI-CMOS sensor in SL1000 is actually just a tiny bit smaller than the 1/2" sensor in HS50. The SL1000 is a 5.6x crop camera and the HS50 is 5.4x crop, so the HS50 sensor has just about 7.5% larger area, which is so small a difference that it almost isn't worth to mention.

EXR is still better in high ISO and the processor on the HS50 is also better/faster hence faster AF, faster write times and shorter STS delay.

-=[ Joms ]=-

Well, we haven't seen any high ISO comparisons yet, and if talking 'reach' and resolution, then I think it's likely that the SL1000 will beat the HS50. For birding the SL1000 will probably be the best choice.

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jcmarfilph
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Re: HS50 EXR versus SL1000
In reply to Steen Bay, Jan 17, 2013

Steen Bay wrote:

jcmarfilph wrote:

Steen Bay wrote:

Francis Carver wrote:

Steen Bay wrote:

why is it that everybody is talking about the HS50, and not the SL1000 with a BSI-CMOS sensor and a 24-1200mm equivalent lens?

I dunno, why? And just what the heck is the difference between a X-TRANS sensor and an EXR CMOS sensor and a BSI CMOS sensor when it comes to Fujifilm cameras? Sometime I think they have more senor types than camera models, he-he-he.

In response to your keen question.... I would say most folks don't give 2 hoots about the Finepix SL1000 because it has a tiny 1/2.3-inch sensor.... and it has no manual zooming capabilities at all. Not everyone wants power zooming in and out by pushing a small switch on a 50x zoom range lens camera, you know.

F6.5 max. open iris setting only at telephoto also does not help matters for the SL1000. Just my wild guess on that, anyhow.

http://www.fujifilmusa.com/products/digital_cameras/s/finepix_sl1000/specifications/

Personally I'd prefer a good old Bayer sensor like used in the SL1000 instead of an EXR or X-trans sensor, and the 1/2.3" BSI-CMOS sensor in SL1000 is actually just a tiny bit smaller than the 1/2" sensor in HS50. The SL1000 is a 5.6x crop camera and the HS50 is 5.4x crop, so the HS50 sensor has just about 7.5% larger area, which is so small a difference that it almost isn't worth to mention.

EXR is still better in high ISO and the processor on the HS50 is also better/faster hence faster AF, faster write times and shorter STS delay.

-=[ Joms ]=-

Well, we haven't seen any high ISO comparisons yet, and if talking 'reach' and resolution, then I think it's likely that the SL1000 will beat the HS50. For birding the SL1000 will probably be the best choice.

It's a new addition to the turtlezoom group so yes for birds on a feeder or dead or sleeping ones.

-=[ Joms ]=-

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