Who Else would like to see a separate 1D/s/x forum?

Started Jan 14, 2013 | Discussions
Mako2011
Mako2011 MOD
Forum ProPosts: 15,071
Like?
as well
In reply to plevyadophy, Jan 22, 2013

plevyadophy wrote:

Mako2011 wrote:

plevyadophy wrote:

Eh?

Unless i am going blind, the text Schmegg wrote read as follows: "unless, of course, you feel that 1D shooters deserve better treatment than other forum users?"

So now explain to me where I misread something?!!

because he asked if the specific poster felt a certain way....he never said he (Schmegg) felt that way about all 1D shooters, as you suggest. That's what leads me to believe you misread.

-- hide signature --

My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)

but to my mind, giving the totality of his posts thus far, the clear implication is that those wanting a separate 1D forum (like perhaps the person to whom he was responding) are seeking better treatment.

"seeking better treatment"?  That would imply they are being treated poorly..but to my mind, they may not be. It's subjective. You just pointed that out and I agree.

And I find it laughable that anyone reading this entire thread and his posts would see it any differently (unless of course they are in need of remedial classes in English comprehension). So let me ask you this: if I think like the person to whom he is responding, how could it be that the person to whom he responds is seeking better treatment for 1D series users but I (or anyone else who thinks likewise) am not? The mind boggles.

I can see that your mind is indeed becoming confused. When he said "I did not say that all 1D users are elitist - nor do I think that".  I took that at face value. I can see why it might have confused you as well.  The internet can be a curse to communication

-- hide signature --

My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
sailorboy2
Regular MemberPosts: 247
Like?
Re: Who Else would like to see a separate 1D/s/x forum?
In reply to Will T, Jan 22, 2013

I sure vote for 1D/s/x forum.

-- hide signature --
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
PhotoKhan
Veteran MemberPosts: 7,895Gear list
Like?
Re: why
In reply to Mako2011, Jan 22, 2013

Mako2011 wrote:

PhotoKhan wrote:

Mako2011 wrote:

Some of the complainers though do seem to exhibit a a certain sense of entitlement by virtue class.

Please state which particular replies on this thread exhibit that trait.

Why? It's not hard to pick out the few posts that some might consider as exhibiting that tone. Pointing them out specifically serves no positive purpose.

Because...

Being (as it is) the case that there are several posts in this thread of users stating that they have trouble finding information about the 1D cameras or even stopped contributing altogether because of the problem at end, your overplay of the few (none?) that might "exhibit that tone" reads more like a covert opinion of your own then a verifiable, statistical significant fact.

You and schmegg are moderators.

Although is not reasonable to ask of you to stay out of discussions only because of your recent functions, it is reasonable to ask for the superior good/common sense the job should entitle.

...and this means that, when a request is so broadly undertaken by the community it should not be your function to combat it because you, personally, don't agree with it but rather take it up to administration as a statistically significant request.

Advocating on the "opposite" side of a broaden request up to point of not even recognizing shortcomings on your own reasoning, as schemgg has done by not replying to this entry of mine that called his attention to how flawed was his logic is not something that should be expected from moderators.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/50678200

PK

-- hide signature --

“Loose praise may feed my ego but constructive criticism advances my skills”
************************************************************
-------------------------------------------------
http://www.pbase.com/photokhan
(PBase Supporter)
-------------------------------------------------

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Marcus Antonius
Senior MemberPosts: 1,002
Like?
Honesty.
In reply to Mako2011, Jan 22, 2013

Mako2011 wrote:

Marcus Antonius wrote:

Mako2011 wrote:

PhotoKhan wrote:

Mako2011 wrote:

Some of the complainers though do seem to exhibit a a certain sense of entitlement by virtue class.

Please state which particular replies on this thread exhibit that trait.

Why? It's not hard to pick out the few posts that some might consider as exhibiting that tone. Pointing them out specifically serves no positive purpose.

-- hide signature --

My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)

It may be me that's 'ignorant' at the moment (to use the popular word in this thread) but i did not read any post where someone 'exhibited a certain sense of entitlement by virtue class'. And i think making such statements by addressing 'no one specific' only raises confusion and some might take this as an insult...

Which is exactly the point I was making...many here are adding "intent" that never existed. I see it as very obvious a post or two that does seem to display a certain tone...you do not. I try hard to see your side of the coin as it gives me a better perspective from which to draw understanding....Just as I don't really think somebody here suggested all users in a certain class are elitist.Looking back at the actual text...I can't find where that was said.

Always interesting how words written can be seen in many lights. For instance....when I say "no insults was intended", do you take that at face value or make a different assessment?

BTW, no insult was intended. That's a factual statement but I do understand it may not be accepted.

-- hide signature --

My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)

'No insult intended' does not mean no insult can be taken. Funny story on the radio today about insults which is a good example. We all know the day our woman asks if her behind is a little too large for the dress she has chosen for the night out, and you have to answer that. Now if that's the case and you tell her "no insult intended, but i think you're right and you should change dress" do you think that'll work? Yet it is still being "honest" and telling how you feel.

Now let me be really honest about my intentions (and that might insult some), and maybe some of the 'elitist' thoughts are true in that case and i do feel addressed to by you in a way. I do believe that (some of) my work and knowledge and i can name few others here (of the recent postings i think of Hans Kruse, octane2, PK, md7953) by far extend the knowledge and talent of the majority on this forum lately, and i can't blame any one of them (and excuse me if i did not mention your work because you decided to quit posting it long ago) leaving this forum for what it is because there's so much water added to the liquor, that it can no longer be called liquor... (something kids to to their fathers liquor stock not being discovered)

Now let me turn it around:

I can still remember a post i made a few months ago about photography in general, what has become of it since having a DSLR has became an every-man's hobby. And i believe this is the core of this discussion:

It has everything to do with marketing and the ever expanding hype of photography that "with canon you can!" no you cannot! Just like with every creative profession in life, if you lack talent, you will never get there. Gear won't change that. Just as much as people believe you are good with post processing, that you can make a lousy composed, badly lit photo an A+, no i can't. I can make a good photo shine, but i can't perform miracles. When i started working with PS (and i believe it was version 4!, peope asked, photo... shoppe? what's that? is it like a store? and now, people buy the CS versions like if it's buying a new pair of socks... because they all think 'they can'.

Does this change anything, no it won't. I think it has everything to do with 'dealing with the circumstances'. And maybe that's what i'll do...

Marcus

-- hide signature --

Making a moment last forever

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
plevyadophy
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,250Gear list
Like?
Re: as well
In reply to Mako2011, Jan 22, 2013

Mako2011 wrote:

plevyadophy wrote:

Mako2011 wrote:

plevyadophy wrote:

Eh?

Unless i am going blind, the text Schmegg wrote read as follows: "unless, of course, you feel that 1D shooters deserve better treatment than other forum users?"

So now explain to me where I misread something?!!

because he asked if the specific poster felt a certain way....he never said he (Schmegg) felt that way about all 1D shooters, as you suggest. That's what leads me to believe you misread.

-- hide signature --

My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)

but to my mind, giving the totality of his posts thus far, the clear implication is that those wanting a separate 1D forum (like perhaps the person to whom he was responding) are seeking better treatment.

"seeking better treatment"? That would imply they are being treated poorly..but to my mind, they may not be. It's subjective. You just pointed that out and I agree.

And I find it laughable that anyone reading this entire thread and his posts would see it any differently (unless of course they are in need of remedial classes in English comprehension). So let me ask you this: if I think like the person to whom he is responding, how could it be that the person to whom he responds is seeking better treatment for 1D series users but I (or anyone else who thinks likewise) am not? The mind boggles.

I can see that your mind is indeed becoming confused. When he said "I did not say that all 1D users are elitist - nor do I think that". I took that at face value. I can see why it might have confused you as well. The internet can be a curse to communication

-- hide signature --

My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)

Well, in my view, taking his posts in their totality, he seems to be in the camp that thinks many of us asking for a 1D series forum are in a social group called Elitest-and/or-Seeking Better or Preferential Treatment.

And what I would like to see from him, or anyone else who thinks it's elitist or whatever for folks to ask for a 1D forum, is to address directly my earlier point (which I have raised umpteen times), namely why is it not elitist for there to be separate Nikon DX SLR and Nikon Pro DX SLR forums and in Sony land for there to be separate NEX and Sony Alpha forums when the NEX cams are interchangeable lens cams with an APS-C sized sensor just like many of the Alpha cams?

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Mako2011
Mako2011 MOD
Forum ProPosts: 15,071
Like?
Learn
In reply to Marcus Antonius, Jan 22, 2013

Marcus Antonius wrote:

Mako2011 wrote:

Marcus Antonius wrote:

Mako2011 wrote:

PhotoKhan wrote:

Mako2011 wrote:

Some of the complainers though do seem to exhibit a a certain sense of entitlement by virtue class.

Please state which particular replies on this thread exhibit that trait.

Why? It's not hard to pick out the few posts that some might consider as exhibiting that tone. Pointing them out specifically serves no positive purpose.

-- hide signature --

My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)

It may be me that's 'ignorant' at the moment (to use the popular word in this thread) but i did not read any post where someone 'exhibited a certain sense of entitlement by virtue class'. And i think making such statements by addressing 'no one specific' only raises confusion and some might take this as an insult...

Which is exactly the point I was making...many here are adding "intent" that never existed. I see it as very obvious a post or two that does seem to display a certain tone...you do not. I try hard to see your side of the coin as it gives me a better perspective from which to draw understanding....Just as I don't really think somebody here suggested all users in a certain class are elitist.Looking back at the actual text...I can't find where that was said.

Always interesting how words written can be seen in many lights. For instance....when I say "no insults was intended", do you take that at face value or make a different assessment?

BTW, no insult was intended. That's a factual statement but I do understand it may not be accepted.

-- hide signature --

My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)

'No insult intended' does not mean no insult can be taken.

Correct...I never suggested otherwise. Also why I pointed out that none was intended. I understand if you take that otherwise. Nothing I can do about that. Nor would I try further as I've made it clear already.

Now let me be really honest about my intentions (and that might insult some), and maybe some of the 'elitist' thoughts are true in that case and i do feel addressed to by you in a way. I do believe that (some of) my work and knowledge and i can name few others here (of the recent postings i think of Hans Kruse, octane2, PK, md7953) by far extend the knowledge and talent of the majority on this forum lately, and i can't blame any one of them (and excuse me if i did not mention your work because you decided to quit posting it long ago) leaving this forum for what it is because there's so much water added to the liquor, that it can no longer be called liquor... (something kids to to their fathers liquor stock not being discovered)

That is a position we well understand. No suggestion otherwise. Why the Staff instituted Community Moderation in the first place, I think.

Now let me turn it around:

I can still remember a post i made a few months ago about photography in general, what has become of it since having a DSLR has became an every-man's hobby. And i believe this is the core of this discussion:

It has everything to do with marketing and the ever expanding hype of photography that "with canon you can!" no you cannot! Just like with every creative profession in life, if you lack talent, you will never get there. Gear won't change that. Just as much as people believe you are good with post processing, that you can make a lousy composed, badly lit photo an A+, no i can't. I can make a good photo shine, but i can't perform miracles. When i started working with PS (and i believe it was version 4!, peope asked, photo... shoppe? what's that? is it like a store? and now, people buy the CS versions like if it's buying a new pair of socks... because they all think 'they can'.

Does this change anything, no it won't. I think it has everything to do with 'dealing with the circumstances'. And maybe that's what i'll do...

I didn't understand that analogy, but I do appreciate your participation and try hard to learn from it.

-- hide signature --

My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Mako2011
Mako2011 MOD
Forum ProPosts: 15,071
Like?
understand
In reply to plevyadophy, Jan 22, 2013

plevyadophy wrote:

Mako2011 wrote:

plevyadophy wrote:

Mako2011 wrote:

plevyadophy wrote:

Eh?

Unless i am going blind, the text Schmegg wrote read as follows: "unless, of course, you feel that 1D shooters deserve better treatment than other forum users?"

So now explain to me where I misread something?!!

because he asked if the specific poster felt a certain way....he never said he (Schmegg) felt that way about all 1D shooters, as you suggest. That's what leads me to believe you misread.

-- hide signature --

My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)

but to my mind, giving the totality of his posts thus far, the clear implication is that those wanting a separate 1D forum (like perhaps the person to whom he was responding) are seeking better treatment.

"seeking better treatment"? That would imply they are being treated poorly..but to my mind, they may not be. It's subjective. You just pointed that out and I agree.

And I find it laughable that anyone reading this entire thread and his posts would see it any differently (unless of course they are in need of remedial classes in English comprehension). So let me ask you this: if I think like the person to whom he is responding, how could it be that the person to whom he responds is seeking better treatment for 1D series users but I (or anyone else who thinks likewise) am not? The mind boggles.

I can see that your mind is indeed becoming confused. When he said "I did not say that all 1D users are elitist - nor do I think that". I took that at face value. I can see why it might have confused you as well. The internet can be a curse to communication

-- hide signature --

My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)

Well, in my view, taking his posts in their totality, he seems to be in the camp that thinks many of us asking for a 1D series forum are in a social group called Elitest-and/or-Seeking Better or Preferential Treatment.

From your posts, I understand why you would think that. It also why I think you misread his intent.

And what I would like to see from him, or anyone else who thinks it's elitist or whatever for folks to ask for a 1D forum, is to address directly my earlier point (which I have raised umpteen times), namely why is it not elitist for there to be separate Nikon DX SLR and Nikon Pro DX SLR forums and in Sony land for there to be separate NEX and Sony Alpha forums when the NEX cams are interchangeable lens cams with an APS-C sized sensor just like many of the Alpha cams?

That's already been addressed here. It's still being addressed.

-- hide signature --

My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Mako2011
Mako2011 MOD
Forum ProPosts: 15,071
Like?
Feedback
In reply to PhotoKhan, Jan 22, 2013

PhotoKhan wrote:

Mako2011 wrote:

PhotoKhan wrote:

Mako2011 wrote:

Some of the complainers though do seem to exhibit a a certain sense of entitlement by virtue class.

Please state which particular replies on this thread exhibit that trait.

Why? It's not hard to pick out the few posts that some might consider as exhibiting that tone. Pointing them out specifically serves no positive purpose.

Because...

Being (as it is) the case that there are several posts in this thread of users stating that they have trouble finding information about the 1D cameras or even stopped contributing altogether because of the problem at end, your overplay of the few (none?) that might "exhibit that tone" reads more like a covert opinion of your own then a verifiable, statistical significant fact.

I think that opinion has been well considered.

You and schmegg are moderators.

Although is not reasonable to ask of you to stay out of discussions only because of your recent functions, it is reasonable to ask for the superior good/common sense the job should entitle.

We are indeed making that effort. Always good to remind us and it's always appreciated.

...and this means that, when a request is so broadly undertaken by the community it should not be your function to combat it because you, personally, don't agree with it but rather take it up to administration as a statistically significant request.

We are members as well. What you suggest we bring up is not what we have been asked to do and we have guidelines as well. All are being followed closely. There is a "Feedback" button at the bottom of the page. It's the members responsibility to use it well. It's not the Community Moderators job to act as the "feedback" button. You may wish we would, but the staff may think otherwise. In fact, if you really want a separate forum....using us as the "feedback" button will be counterproductive under the current system.

Advocating on the "opposite" side of a broaden request up to point of not even recognizing shortcomings on your own reasoning, as schemgg has done by not replying to this entry of mine that called his attention to how flawed was his logic is not something that should be expected from moderators.

I understand you concerns. I just don't share many of them. Some I do.

-- hide signature --

My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Marcus Antonius
Senior MemberPosts: 1,002
Like?
Re: Learn
In reply to Mako2011, Jan 22, 2013

Mako2011 wrote:


It has everything to do with marketing and the ever expanding hype of photography that "with canon you can!" no you cannot! Just like with every creative profession in life, if you lack talent, you will never get there. Gear won't change that. Just as much as people believe you are good with post processing, that you can make a lousy composed, badly lit photo an A+, no i can't. I can make a good photo shine, but i can't perform miracles. When i started working with PS (and i believe it was version 4!, peope asked, photo... shoppe? what's that? is it like a store? and now, people buy the CS versions like if it's buying a new pair of socks... because they all think 'they can'.

Does this change anything, no it won't. I think it has everything to do with 'dealing with the circumstances'. And maybe that's what i'll do...

I didn't understand that analogy, but I do appreciate your participation and try hard to learn from it.

-- hide signature --

My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)

I mean, when the group becomes larger (because interest in photography intensifies), and overall quality degrades, experienced users might lose interest and become frustrated in a way like i described above. Does that make my point clearer? If not i'm sorry but i can't use advanced english to explain myself better because english is not my native language.

-- hide signature --

Making a moment last forever

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Mako2011
Mako2011 MOD
Forum ProPosts: 15,071
Like?
Thanks all
In reply to Marcus Antonius, Jan 22, 2013

Marcus Antonius wrote:

Mako2011 wrote:


It has everything to do with marketing and the ever expanding hype of photography that "with canon you can!" no you cannot! Just like with every creative profession in life, if you lack talent, you will never get there. Gear won't change that. Just as much as people believe you are good with post processing, that you can make a lousy composed, badly lit photo an A+, no i can't. I can make a good photo shine, but i can't perform miracles. When i started working with PS (and i believe it was version 4!, peope asked, photo... shoppe? what's that? is it like a store? and now, people buy the CS versions like if it's buying a new pair of socks... because they all think 'they can'.

Does this change anything, no it won't. I think it has everything to do with 'dealing with the circumstances'. And maybe that's what i'll do...

I didn't understand that analogy, but I do appreciate your participation and try hard to learn from it.

-- hide signature --

My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)

I mean, when the group becomes larger (because interest in photography intensifies), and overall quality degrades, experienced users might lose interest and become frustrated in a way like i described above. Does that make my point clearer?

I understand now. Thanks. It's simply that not everyone sees that as you do but everyone's input is valid and appreciated. I thank everyone for a civil discussion.

-- hide signature --

My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads