Tribute to M43 tread!

Started Jan 10, 2013 | Discussions
SlamdunK
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Tribute to M43 tread!
Jan 10, 2013

Seeing pictures on this forum, following other m43 forums and personal experience make me wonder why some people insist they need FF for proffesional use.

The fact is that if you cant manage with m43 and its fantastic lenses, you should question your own skills instead of the equipment.

If you buy the fastest m43 lenses the dept of field is definetly small enough as well. Needing a Leica or D800 is in my view nothing more than vanity. This recent tread with pictures from cuba is a good example: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3365086. Do people really need a Leica Monochrome?

No.

Is m43 an excellent system?

Yes.

Personally have also used it for sports, and don't have any problems at all at getting excellent pictures, even with my GF2.

I am really happy I went with m43, so here I have started the tribute to M43 tread, lets hear your positives on the format!

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illy
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Re: Tribute to M43 tread!
In reply to SlamdunK, Jan 10, 2013

SlamdunK wrote:

Seeing pictures on this forum, following other m43 forums and personal experience make me wonder why some people insist they need FF for proffesional use.

The fact is that if you cant manage with m43 and its fantastic lenses, you should question your own skills instead of the equipment.

If you buy the fastest m43 lenses the dept of field is definetly small enough as well. Needing a Leica or D800 is in my view nothing more than vanity. This recent tread with pictures from cuba is a good example: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3365086. Do people really need a Leica Monochrome?

No.

Is m43 an excellent system?

Yes.

Personally have also used it for sports, and don't have any problems at all at getting excellent pictures, even with my GF2.

I am really happy I went with m43, so here I have started the tribute to M43 tread, lets hear your positives on the format!

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I.B.
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please don't tell others their needs just because your are different. Yes m4/3rds is a great system but it doesn't meet everyone's needs and wants, some people need better low light performance, some people need more resolution, some want smaller and compact the list is endless............

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SlamdunK
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Re: Tribute to M43 tread!
In reply to illy, Jan 10, 2013

please don't tell others their needs just because your are different. Yes m4/3rds is a great system but it doesn't meet everyone's needs and wants, some people need better low light performance, some people need more resolution, some want smaller and compact the list is endless............

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Am I not allowed to have an opinion and express it? It is not like I am going to the other forums to gloat. And is it not part of the meaning of this forum to express your views, and discuss them? I respect that others may not agree on what I am saying, but honestly I believe very few really have a Professional need for FF compared to m43, on the contrary I belive many would benefit from using m43.

Things like EVF With live view and exposure controll is defenetly the way to go forward. What you see is what you shoot. The size of the lenses makes it much more manageble, the quality of the lenses somtimes Equals the FF equalient etc.

I find it hard to fint an argument the other way expect for DOF, but that is also mostly possible with m43 trough the voigtlander lenses, telephoto, the coming 43mm f1.2, Olympus 75mm 1.8 etc.

The modern m43 sensor is better than the "proffesional" FF Sensors from few generations back. Offcourse the D800 makes fantastic Pictures, but so do m43.

Steve huff made a comparion of the Leica monochrome with the omd: http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2012/11/16/the-crazy-comparison-returns-the-999-olympus-om-d-vs-the-7995-leica-monochrom/

Does my eyes decieve me, or are the pictures hard to tell apart?

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illy
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Re: Tribute to M43 tread!
In reply to SlamdunK, Jan 10, 2013

SlamdunK wrote:

please don't tell others their needs just because your are different. Yes m4/3rds is a great system but it doesn't meet everyone's needs and wants, some people need better low light performance, some people need more resolution, some want smaller and compact the list is endless............

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Am I not allowed to have an opinion and express it? It is not like I am going to the other forums to gloat. And is it not part of the meaning of this forum to express your views, and discuss them? I respect that others may not agree on what I am saying, but honestly I believe very few really have a Professional need for FF compared to m43, on the contrary I belive many would benefit from using m43.

Things like EVF With live view and exposure controll is defenetly the way to go forward. What you see is what you shoot. The size of the lenses makes it much more manageble, the quality of the lenses somtimes Equals the FF equalient etc.

I find it hard to fint an argument the other way expect for DOF, but that is also mostly possible with m43 trough the voigtlander lenses, telephoto, the coming 43mm f1.2, Olympus 75mm 1.8 etc.

The modern m43 sensor is better the the "proffesional" FF Sensors from few generations back. Offcourse the D800 makes fantastic Pictures, but so do m43.

Steve huff made a comparion of the Leica monochrome with the omd: http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2012/11/16/the-crazy-comparison-returns-the-999-olympus-om-d-vs-the-7995-leica-monochrom/

Does my eyes decieve me, or are the pictures hard to tell apart?

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I.B.
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certainly you are yes, you can also make assumptions for others no matter how incorrect they may be. People choose cameras for lots of different reasons, and sometimes for no other reason than whose name sits on it. But some people do need bigger higher resolution cameras which are more capable in the sports/low light type of scenarios. For the majority m4/3rds would indeed serve them very well and cut down on the size of weight of their equipment with no loss in I.Q. Modern sensors do tend to be better than what went before them, but the assumption that one size fits all is incorrect.

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JohnBGood
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Re: Tribute to M43 tread!
In reply to illy, Jan 10, 2013

illy wrote:

certainly you are yes, you can also make assumptions for others no matter how incorrect they may be. People choose cameras for lots of different reasons, and sometimes for no other reason than whose name sits on it. But some people do need bigger higher resolution cameras which are more capable in the sports/low light type of scenarios. For the majority m4/3rds would indeed serve them very well and cut down on the size of weight of their equipment with no loss in I.Q. Modern sensors do tend to be better than what went before them, but the assumption that one size fits all is incorrect.

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+1 on this,
having to lug a 6x7 for several years, I love the lightness and the performance of my OMD and it's great lens system (I love the 45 1.8, the 25 1.4 and the 12 f2)
But I certainly understand the diverse needs and wants of others and making a blanket statement that people do not (and should not) need other format is nothing more than a very personal opinion and not a fact.

As far as I'm concerned I found my system (m4/3) and I'm not looking back,
would I be rich though, I would have a FF for backup

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SlamdunK
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Re: Tribute to M43 tread!
In reply to illy, Jan 10, 2013

I am just a little fed up by reading the "But what about DOF", "FF for iso", "FF for whatever", when the m43 system today really covers that With a fraction of the size and cost.

Really cool that a M43 camera was camera of the year here, and reading blogs on all the proffesionals switshing after trying the format out.

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SlamdunK
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Re: Tribute to M43 tread!
In reply to JohnBGood, Jan 10, 2013

But I certainly understand the diverse needs and wants of others and making a blanket statement that people do not (and should not) need other format is nothing more than a very personal opinion and not a fact.

Well thats the thing, I think my arguments actually are facts. I dont see many good arguments the other way. I love that m43 has unseattled the status quo with canon and Nikon spurring out large DSLR with no real innovation.

The proof is in the pudding, M43 rule them all

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Bob Tullis
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The king is dead?
In reply to SlamdunK, Jan 10, 2013

Come on, that's not a tribute. It's an emotional reaction to opinions that haven't taken to this format. Those are just as annoying to µ4/3 users as a topic like this is to DSLR owners. Both are right, according to their own desires and perceptions (including misconceptions).

If you want to perpetuate the DSLR/µ43 posturing that goes on, this is one way to go about it. Otherwise forget that other format, and try to create a REAL tribute topic.

I was saving this for Tedolf's inevitable return, "Tedolf cursing the Mods", but. . .



µ4/3 user railing against DSLRs

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rrr_hhh
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Re: Tribute to M43 tread!
In reply to SlamdunK, Jan 10, 2013

SlamdunK wrote:

please don't tell others their needs just because your are different. Yes m4/3rds is a great system but it doesn't meet everyone's needs and wants, some people need better low light performance, some people need more resolution, some want smaller and compact the list is endless............

-- hide signature --

The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.

Am I not allowed to have an opinion and express it? It is not like I am going to the other forums to gloat. And is it not part of the meaning of this forum to express your views, and discuss them? I respect that others may not agree on what I am saying, but honestly I believe very few really have a Professional need for FF compared to m43, on the contrary I belive many would benefit from using m43.

It is very different to say "Seeing pictures on this forum, following other m43 forums and personal experience make me wonder why some people insist they need FF for proffesional use." Like you wrote in your first post in this thread or to say "honestly I believe very few really have a Professional need for FF compared to m43, on the contrary I belive many would benefit from using m43." Like you wrote thi your second post.

The truth is that there are very few amateurs needing FF IQ given the way they are printing or displaying their pictures. But the generalization you made in your first post shows that you lack any knowledge of how a pro works. mst if the time a pro will have different kinds of tools (camera systems) and he will use the tools he needs to get the job done, but not what is overkill. He needs reliable tools with backup and a pro support service. He needs to make sure he won't miss a shot. He will go with the tools he knows best to avoid failing of gear. MFT dn't yet there. Olympus for instance tated clearly Nile launching the E-M5 : it isn't a pro level camera. Panasonic seems to have other ambitions with the GH3, but that lies more with video than with stills.

Pro however, at least those still in love with photography will happily use an mft camera for their private photography, for holidays and family pictures, or even for their private work if they think it is enough for their goal.

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SlamdunK
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Re: The king is dead?
In reply to Bob Tullis, Jan 10, 2013

Nice one!

I disagree, it is a tribute when you find a system close or exceeding in capability to something that is much more expensive. Did you see a big difference on the Leica vs omd Pictures?

Whats wrong with a little rally for the format you belive in?

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illy
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Re: The king is dead?
In reply to SlamdunK, Jan 10, 2013

SlamdunK wrote:

Whats wrong with a little rally for the format you belive in?

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I.B.
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because it makes you sound like some marketing guy, the pictures in this forum alone should be self evident of the systems quality

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SlamdunK
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Re: Tribute to M43 tread!
In reply to rrr_hhh, Jan 10, 2013

It is very different to say "Seeing pictures on this forum, following other m43 forums and personal experience make me wonder why some people insist they need FF for proffesional use." Like you wrote in your first post in this thread or to say "honestly I believe very few really have a Professional need for FF compared to m43, on the contrary I belive many would benefit from using m43." Like you wrote thi your second post.

Really?



The truth is that there are very few amateurs needing FF IQ given the way they are printing or displaying their pictures. But the generalization you made in your first post shows that you lack any knowledge of how a pro works. mst if the time a pro will have different kinds of tools (camera systems) and he will use the tools he needs to get the job done, but not what is overkill. He needs reliable tools with backup and a pro support service. He needs to make sure he won't miss a shot. He will go with the tools he knows best to avoid failing of gear. MFT dn't yet there. Olympus for instance tated clearly Nile launching the E-M5 : it isn't a pro level camera. Panasonic seems to have other ambitions with the GH3, but that lies more with video than with stills.

I belive the m43 toolbox covers most of what a pro need. Pro service? Can pro service help you take better pictures? Is m43 unreliable?

Pros sell pictures, it is not much more complicated than that. D800 will not help you take better pictures compared to m43 is my argument, exept for huge prints. I have made large prints myself with m43, it looks very good.

FF is nothing more than decadence for most pros.



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SlamdunK
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Re: The king is dead?
In reply to illy, Jan 10, 2013

because it makes you sound like some marketing guy, the pictures in this forum alone should be self evident of the systems quality

Well, I am not some marketing guy, just some happy costumer who had hoped for some similar minded team spirit.

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illy
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Re: The king is dead?
In reply to SlamdunK, Jan 10, 2013

SlamdunK wrote:

because it makes you sound like some marketing guy, the pictures in this forum alone should be self evident of the systems quality

Well, I am not some marketing guy, just some happy costumer who had hoped for some similar minded team spirit.

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I.B.
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please don't go buying condoms that you think are great

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Boris
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Re: Tribute to M43 tread!
In reply to SlamdunK, Jan 10, 2013

Sounds a bit fanboyish!  m4/3 an excellent system until you need to C-AF/focus tracking ...any entry level DSLR will do this competently but not the OMD5.

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SlamdunK
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Re: Tribute to M43 tread!
In reply to Boris, Jan 10, 2013

Boris wrote:

Sounds a bit fanboyish! m4/3 an excellent system until you need to C-AF/focus tracking ...any entry level DSLR will do this competently but not the OMD5.

The increase in CPU Power and sensor readout will soon neglitgate the C-AF differences, CDAF will soon surpass phase detection. GH3 should be pretty good in this area. I tried to point out spesific advantages to m43 to have a nautral argument, but offcourse it will sound fanboysih when Peoples mindset is so used to the DSLR for pros.

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Boris
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Re: Tribute to M43 tread!
In reply to SlamdunK, Jan 10, 2013

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush!

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SlamdunK
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Re: Tribute to M43 tread!
In reply to Boris, Jan 10, 2013

Boris wrote:

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush!

Agreed:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3364595

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Re: Tribute to M43 tread!
In reply to SlamdunK, Jan 10, 2013

You are right on the money and I agree with you 100%. Thing is most people with a camera are more into what their camera can do rather then what they can do with any camera. They're photo geeks and are happy having cool tech.

Sounds like you might come from the other end of the spectrum which is all about photography. For those of use that are more creative driven (what we can do with any camera) M43 is a great system.

While there is nothing wrong with being a camera geek or a artist that happens to use a camera both types of photographer have different wants then the other. I say wants because few need even what M43 brings to the table let alone a D800.

Mirrorless cameras are quickly becoming the standard (like DSLRs are today) while DSLRs are becoming the Medium format cameras.

One thing that should be mentioned is that cameras, like smart phones, are becoming a lifestyle device. It's important for many that a camera looks good and even more then that, is a extension of our personal style.

Like most things with photography there is no right or wrong. For me the transition from a DSLR to a mirrorless has been a revelation. I shoot faster, more accurately and with less gear which makes my clients, subjects and myself happy.

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Bob Tullis
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Re: The king is dead?
In reply to SlamdunK, Jan 10, 2013

SlamdunK wrote:

because it makes you sound like some marketing guy, the pictures in this forum alone should be self evident of the systems quality

Well, I am not some marketing guy, just some happy costumer who had hoped for some similar minded team spirit.

I don't take the reference to inept DSLR owners to be any 'team spirit' I'd like to lend my name to.  That's the point being made here.

Otherwise, here's my version team spirit contribution, what I've done with µ4/3 since leaving the FF DSLR behind (sans attitude).  Make no mistake about it, I'm STILL excited to be doing what can be done with this format, and it's 3 years now:







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