X100 sRGB or Adobe RGB

Started Dec 24, 2012 | Discussions
Otromio
Forum MemberPosts: 57
Like?
X100 sRGB or Adobe RGB
Dec 24, 2012

I'd always thought the clever people used Adobe 1998 (same as Adobe RGB?) but Ken Rockwell and others insist sRGB is better. I'm using Lightroom and generally shoot RAW although I hear the x100 makes great jpgs. What's the consensus?

Fujifilm FinePix X100
If you believe there are incorrect tags, please send us this post using our feedback form.
unknown member
(unknown member)
Like?
Re: X100 sRGB or Adobe RGB
In reply to Otromio, Dec 24, 2012

Otromio wrote:

I'd always thought the clever people used Adobe 1998 (same as Adobe RGB?) but Ken Rockwell and others insist sRGB is better. I'm using Lightroom and generally shoot RAW although I hear the x100 makes great jpgs. What's the consensus?

My understanding is that VERY few people view images on line with equipment capable of displaying the Adobe RGB color gamut. Thus, images produced in this color space will look off a bit when seen on sRGB equipment.

Adobe RGB is more useful for printing.

-- hide signature --

DISCLAIMER: The text written herein is meant to provide the opinions and/or suggestions of the author. No statement herein is meant to be considered law of the land, representative of any party or group, and or a quote from any party or group. Neither is any statement in the contained text meant to be taken as scripture, doctrine, or all encompassing of an entire populous or any groups or individuals therein.

 rattymouse's gear list:rattymouse's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix F10 Zoom Fujifilm FinePix F20 Zoom Fujifilm FinePix F70EXR Fujifilm FinePix X100 Fujifilm X10 +9 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
s.hum
Regular MemberPosts: 134
Like?
Re: X100 sRGB or Adobe RGB
In reply to Otromio, Dec 24, 2012

If you post process your images, use Adobe RGB for the slightly increased color space (Lightroom and Aperture automatically detect your color space). Save to sRGB for web, distributing images.

Or shoot raw

-- hide signature --

S
Fuji X100
Leica M4 28 35 50 90
Olympus E1 11-22 14-54 50 50-200 EC-14
Sigma DP1

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
dengx
Contributing MemberPosts: 924
Like?
Re: X100 sRGB or Adobe RGB
In reply to Otromio, Dec 24, 2012

Otromio wrote:

I'd always thought the clever people used Adobe 1998 (same as Adobe RGB?) but Ken Rockwell and others insist sRGB is better. I'm using Lightroom and generally shoot RAW although I hear the x100 makes great jpgs. What's the consensus?

a) it doesn't matter for RAW-s, RAW is just a raw data that you can put into a restricted color space later when exporting to TIFF-s, JPEG-s or whatever you might like

b) if you have everything calibrated and ARGB capable (from your monitor display to finally a lab with a calibrated printer) then ARGB would be better in reds and blues, but you really, really need to have everything calibrated and color space aware, one "no" in that chain pretty much screws your photos

c) it doesn't make much sense to shoot JPEG's in ARGB though (some people do that for various reasons though), you will need to convert it to srgb (with a loss) for web for example

Regards

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Mark Carr
Senior MemberPosts: 2,037
Like?
Re: X100 sRGB or Adobe RGB
In reply to Otromio, Dec 24, 2012

Hi,

I would agree with others here have said, based on what I've read and work I've done. If you're shooting Raw then export and save the file as an Adobe RGB file, this is best for offset printing. If you plan to distribute the photo via the web then the last step would be to convert the file to sRGB. The images will look better on the monitor this way, at least mine do.

Regards,

Mark

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Al Valentino
Senior MemberPosts: 4,349Gear list
Like?
Re: X100 sRGB or Adobe RGB
In reply to Otromio, Dec 24, 2012

For web posting you need to have images converted to sRGB. For other work it is best to have RGB as that includes a greater color gamut which may or may not be visible on your monitor. I can't see beyong sRGB on my MacBook Pro but I can on my NEC monitor and the difference, on some images can be significant and reduces posterization on some extreme captures with the sun.

Right now I am in mostly testing mode with my XE1 so I decided am shooting jpegs in sRGB mode and also shooting by bracketing film simulations. Provia has the best dynamic range so best used for extreme cases. If I am shooting something I think will be significant I would shoot in RGB and RAW + jpeg.

 Al Valentino's gear list:Al Valentino's gear list
Fujifilm X-E1 Fujifilm XF 35mm F1.4 R Fujifilm XF 14mm F2.8 R Fujifilm XF 18-55mm F2.8-4 R LM OIS Fujifilm XF 55-200mm F3.5-4.8 R LM OIS +8 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Tom Schum
Senior MemberPosts: 3,340Gear list
Like?
Re: X100 sRGB or Adobe RGB
In reply to Al Valentino, Dec 24, 2012

To me, a mere dabbler, Adobe RGB offers a slightly different palette when viewed on a sRGB monitor.

I suggest you try both ARGB and sRGB, then stick with what you like best.

As for me, I settled down with sRGB after quite a few months of doing ARGB.

-- hide signature --

Tom Schum

 Tom Schum's gear list:Tom Schum's gear list
Sigma DP2 Sigma DP3 Merrill Fujifilm X-E1 Sigma 50mm F2.8 EX DG Macro Samyang 85mm F1.4 Aspherical IF +5 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Ryan Williams
Contributing MemberPosts: 592
Like?
Re: X100 sRGB or Adobe RGB
In reply to Tom Schum, Dec 25, 2012

Stick with sRGB. If you use anything else you risk your images looking completely wrong when people view them online as most software is based around sRGB and many — including web browsers — will ignore colour profiles and show in sRGB regardless, so what your audience sees may not be what you expected.

Lightroom technically uses Melissa RGB but this is for all intents and purposes sRGB. Shooting the photos with another profile won't change the fact that Lighroom uses this one for all internal editing.

If you're doing casual printing then most printers will be used to receiving and dealing with sRGB so again this is the best profile to use. However if you're doing serious printing and pay a lot of attention to quality it's a whole different ball game as printers are incapable of printing certain tones — bright greens and yellows, for example. If this is something you must get right, you need to be using proper CMYK colour profiles and working with printers who know how to respect them and to a certain extent you have to post-process your photos with printing in mind.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Otromio
Forum MemberPosts: 57
Like?
Re: X100 sRGB or Adobe RGB
In reply to Ryan Williams, Dec 25, 2012

Thanks for the info. We're just talking jpg here right? For RAW it makes no diff? I'd always assumed that was the case.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Ryan Williams
Contributing MemberPosts: 592
Like?
Re: X100 sRGB or Adobe RGB
In reply to Otromio, Dec 25, 2012

It still matters as you can't have an image without it existing in some kind of colour space, however the RAW itself contains no such info — only once it's brought into a RAW processor will it be assigned a profile, so in Lightroom that'd be sRGB.

Other processors may vary in what profile they use, and it's even possible the X-mount cameras could embed a meta/EXIF into the RAW file which tells the RAW processor which profile to use if it supports that option, though I doubt this is the case.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
H Smith
Senior MemberPosts: 1,376Gear list
Like?
Re: X100 sRGB or Adobe RGB
In reply to Ryan Williams, Dec 25, 2012

I always save tiffs in Pro Photo RGB which has a higher gamut yet. Web images can be easily and automatically converted to sRGB in Photoshop using File> scripts>image processer.  Or  File>save for web.
Henry F. Smith Jr
Visit my blog at http://henrysmithscottage.wordpress.com

 H Smith's gear list:H Smith's gear list
Fujifilm X-Pro1 Fujifilm X-E1 Fujifilm XF 23mm F1.4 R
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
fluxism
Regular MemberPosts: 383
Like?
Re: X100 sRGB or Adobe RGB
In reply to Otromio, Dec 25, 2012

I save them as adobe rgb because of the higher gamut, but if I'm posting to the web save a new copy in srgb

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Rand 47
Regular MemberPosts: 362Gear list
Like?
Re: X100 sRGB or Adobe RGB
In reply to Ryan Williams, Dec 25, 2012

Ryan Williams wrote:

It still matters as you can't have an image without it existing in some kind of colour space, however the RAW itself contains no such info — only once it's brought into a RAW processor will it be assigned a profile, so in Lightroom that'd be sRGB.

Other processors may vary in what profile they use, and it's even possible the X-mount cameras could embed a meta/EXIF into the RAW file which tells the RAW processor which profile to use if it supports that option, though I doubt this is the case.

If you are saying that the native colors space for LR is sRGB, that's incorrect.  LR uses ProPhoto RGB when working with RAW files.  You may, of course export w/ whatever color space your image needs for its intended display mode.

A good reason to work in a large color space with RAW files is that you retain flexibility and don't throw away color information that you can never get back.  Your display needs may not be able to display it now, but who knows what the future holds.  The Apple retina display is close to Adobe RGB now, so sRGB is already an obsolete and too small color space for retina devices.  And if you work in sRGB and someone ends up wanting a nice print of your image, well it won't be as good as it could have been, potentially,  because you trashed color information that current printers can print.

Best,

Rand

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
josseee
Regular MemberPosts: 161Gear list
Like?
Re: X100 sRGB or Adobe RGB
In reply to Rand 47, Dec 25, 2012

Well...67 is not close at all... thats the percentage of adobeRGB retina macbook covers..I dont think its usable for adobeRGB..perhaps the next generation? However, the resolution is marvelous. I strongly dislike apple, but the retina is tempting me...its tempting me a lot!!!

 josseee's gear list:josseee's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-5N Sony SLT-A99 Sony 16-35mm F2.8 ZA SSM Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* Sony 24-70mm F2.8 ZA SSM Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* Sony 85mm F1.4 ZA Carl Zeiss Planar T* +4 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
camerosity
Regular MemberPosts: 341Gear list
Like?
sRGB is for most all users here on this forum
In reply to josseee, Dec 25, 2012

If you're shooting RAW, you're not capturing in any color space. You decide which color space to convert the RAW file into in post processing. So the discussion is meaningless unless you aren't shooting in RAW, in which case I recommend sRGB for most users who view their images on screen, or print. Only the most expensive monitors can display the Adobe RGB color gamut (we're talking EIZO panels that retail for $5000.00 and up). Most cheap consumer TN panels can't even display 8 bits of information, and are 6 bit panels that interpolate to 8 bits.

Capturing in Adobe RGB and then converting to sRGB to print loses colors that would have been there if the original had been captured in sRGB in the first place.

 camerosity's gear list:camerosity's gear list
Nikon Coolpix A Nikon 1 V1 Nikon D800
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Rand 47
Regular MemberPosts: 362Gear list
Like?
Re: sRGB is for most all users here on this forum
In reply to camerosity, Dec 25, 2012

camerosity wrote:

If you're shooting RAW, you're not capturing in any color space. You decide which color space to convert the RAW file into in post processing. So the discussion is meaningless unless you aren't shooting in RAW, in which case I recommend sRGB for most users who view their images on screen, or print. Only the most expensive monitors can display the Adobe RGB color gamut (we're talking EIZO panels that retail for $5000.00 and up). Most cheap consumer TN panels can't even display 8 bits of information, and are 6 bit panels that interpolate to 8 bits.

Capturing in Adobe RGB and then converting to sRGB to print loses colors that would have been there if the original had been captured in sRGB in the first place.

An NEC PA271w can be had for $1200.  Why would we spend thousands of dollars on advanced cameras and lenses, then work in a non-color managed, restricted workflow?   It makes no sense to me.   It strikes me much like buying a $3,000 stereo and $10 speakers.  My comment isn't aimed at you , camerosity, but at the wider issue here being discussed. I just keyed off of your comment about the expense of decent monitors.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Adrian Tung
Senior MemberPosts: 2,810Gear list
Like?
Re: X100 sRGB or Adobe RGB
In reply to Otromio, Dec 26, 2012

Personally, I'd stick with sRGB unless you (i) have a calibrated wide gamut monitor, and (ii) know exactly what you're dealing with.

Without the right hardware, you won't be able to see the expanded color space to be able to take advantage of it anyway.

 Adrian Tung's gear list:Adrian Tung's gear list
Leica D-LUX 4 Canon EOS 10D Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX1 Canon EOS 5D Mark III Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 +10 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
josseee
Regular MemberPosts: 161Gear list
Like?
Re: sRGB is for most all users here on this forum
In reply to camerosity, Dec 26, 2012

Pls first check something befor you post it...you can easily get a wide gamut monitor for 1000e..I will probably get the EIZO SX2762W for about 1200e (you can get it for 1400$ on Amazon) you can even go much chepaer if you go with some HP wide gamut monitor...

 josseee's gear list:josseee's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-5N Sony SLT-A99 Sony 16-35mm F2.8 ZA SSM Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* Sony 24-70mm F2.8 ZA SSM Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* Sony 85mm F1.4 ZA Carl Zeiss Planar T* +4 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Rand 47
Regular MemberPosts: 362Gear list
Like?
Re: sRGB is for most all users here on this forum
In reply to Rand 47, Dec 26, 2012

There is much misunderstanding of color spaces and their use / purpose in this thread.  I heartily recommend two tutorials, both from the Luminous-Landscape site:

  • From Camera to Print and Screen
  • Lightroom 4 Advanced Tutorial

Best,

Rand

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Ryan Williams
Contributing MemberPosts: 592
Like?
Re: X100 sRGB or Adobe RGB
In reply to Rand 47, Dec 26, 2012

Rand 47 wrote:

Ryan Williams wrote:

It still matters as you can't have an image without it existing in some kind of colour space, however the RAW itself contains no such info — only once it's brought into a RAW processor will it be assigned a profile, so in Lightroom that'd be sRGB.

Other processors may vary in what profile they use, and it's even possible the X-mount cameras could embed a meta/EXIF into the RAW file which tells the RAW processor which profile to use if it supports that option, though I doubt this is the case.

If you are saying that the native colors space for LR is sRGB, that's incorrect. LR uses ProPhoto RGB when working with RAW files. You may, of course export w/ whatever color space your image needs for its intended display mode.

A good reason to work in a large color space with RAW files is that you retain flexibility and don't throw away color information that you can never get back. Your display needs may not be able to display it now, but who knows what the future holds. The Apple retina display is close to Adobe RGB now, so sRGB is already an obsolete and too small color space for retina devices. And if you work in sRGB and someone ends up wanting a nice print of your image, well it won't be as good as it could have been, potentially, because you trashed color information that current printers can print.

Best,

Rand

No, I said for all intents and purposes it's sRGB. To be precise, it uses Melissa RGB which is a modified version of ProPhoto RGB that has the same tonality as sRGB.

Something that I'm not sure everyone understands is that colour profiles go well beyond simply allowing more colours — they can completely change the tonality and colour signature of a photo. For example, all of the X-series film simulations are colour profiles that're baked directly into the JPEGs. So using different colour profiles can have a DRAMATIC impact on how your photo looks.

In a perfect world this wouldn't be an issue because profiles are meant to embedded into files and then viewing software would show the photos using that profile. But this takes us back to my previous post: much software ignores colour profiles altogether and shows in sRGB. This includes many web browsers — the very software most of our online audiences will be using to view our photos.

So this brings me back to my original point: use sRGB or you risk people seeing them with wildly different tonality to what you intended. A wider gamut is only really useful for printing as the existence of things like 'retina displays' is completely negated by the fact that much software won't use the profiles anyway.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads