Questions to forum members and administrators?

Started Dec 16, 2012 | Discussions
digititus
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Questions to forum members and administrators?
Dec 16, 2012

Can a Mod who has routinely boasted of having nearly thirty people on his "ignore" list be unbiased in his actions?

Should a Mod be permitted to delete messages with multiple "thumbs up" that break no rules?

Should a Mod be permitted to issue "warnings" to a member for questioning the actions of the Mod?

Should someone be given the powers of a Mod when they have themselves resorted to name calling and other rules infractions prior to receiving their new found powers?

Should the power to ban a member rest with a Mod, or should the third strike (if that is what it is) rest with a higher authority?

What was the selection basis for the Mods?

Will the performance of Mods be reviewed?

Are over-zealous and biased Mods healthy for the forums and business model?

I suspect the answers to these questions will become readily apparent when I am banned. I've already received two warnings in the last twelve hours for similar messages. Whether or not I am banned, I will not be spending much time here (or the Sony forum) until there are some changes!

Tim in upstate NY
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Re: Questions to forum members and administrators?
In reply to digititus, Dec 16, 2012

digititus wrote:

Can a Mod who has routinely boasted of having nearly thirty people on his "ignore" list be unbiased in his actions?

Should a Mod be permitted to delete messages with multiple "thumbs up" that break no rules?

Should a Mod be permitted to issue "warnings" to a member for questioning the actions of the Mod?

Should someone be given the powers of a Mod when they have themselves resorted to name calling and other rules infractions prior to receiving their new found powers?

Should the power to ban a member rest with a Mod, or should the third strike (if that is what it is) rest with a higher authority?

What was the selection basis for the Mods?

Will the performance of Mods be reviewed?

Are over-zealous and biased Mods healthy for the forums and business model?

I suspect the answers to these questions will become readily apparent when I am banned. I've already received two warnings in the last twelve hours for similar messages. Whether or not I am banned, I will not be spending much time here (or the Sony forum) until there are some changes!

. . . Why not just ban yourself and be gone?

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Deleted1929
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Re: Questions to forum members and administrators?
In reply to digititus, Dec 16, 2012

digititus wrote:

Can a Mod who has routinely boasted of having nearly thirty people on his "ignore" list be unbiased in his actions?

Any members, including moderators, are entitled to use their ignore list as they please.

Note that moderators see ALL posts, whether they're from people on our ignore lists or not.  We also see deleted posts.

Should a Mod be permitted to delete messages with multiple "thumbs up" that break no rules?

The number of thumbs up is irrelevant.

A post should not be deleted if it doesn't break rules.

Should a Mod be permitted to issue "warnings" to a member for questioning the actions of the Mod?

It's a banning offense.  Issuing a warning is at the discretion of the moderators.

Contact he admins privately if you have a specific complaint.  Moderators won't see those communications unless ( or until ) Admins deem it necessary.

Should someone be given the powers of a Mod when they have themselves resorted to name calling and other rules infractions prior to receiving their new found powers?

A matter for the Admins.

Should the power to ban a member rest with a Mod, or should the third strike (if that is what it is) rest with a higher authority?

The power rests with the moderators who are subject to oversight by the Admins at all time.

What was the selection basis for the Mods?

I don't  fully understand, but it did, AFAIK, involve a review of posting history and other activity on DPR.

Will the performance of Mods be reviewed?

It is under constant review.

Are over-zealous and biased Mods healthy for the forums and business model?

It's not my business.

I suspect the answers to these questions will become readily apparent when I am banned. I've already received two warnings in the last twelve hours for similar messages. Whether or not I am banned, I will not be spending much time here (or the Sony forum) until there are some changes!

Whether you choose to be here or not is your choice.  You are required to accept the rules and adhere to them if you visit.  It's that simple.

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Osvaldo Cristo
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This is a private owned site. They moderate it as they want...
In reply to digititus, Dec 16, 2012

This is a private owned site. They moderate it as they want.

We, users of the site can express our opinions as you are doing now, and at most just to let the site if we strongly disagree with their criterions.

But the bottom line is: yes, their mod can do all are you talking about.

IMO the site is great if you consider it is free of charge.

Regards,

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Piginho
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Re: Questions to forum members and administrators?
In reply to digititus, Dec 16, 2012

digititus wrote:

Can a Mod who has routinely boasted of having nearly thirty people on his "ignore" list be unbiased in his actions?

There doesn't seem to be anything in the Forum Rules to prevent this and I guess that dpreview is free to decide it's own rules.  The Moderater's and Administrator's rules are unpublished, so we don't know if it's against the related rules.

If you're asking a wider, moral question, it seems that in most countries where we may be tried in a court of law and judged by a jury of our peers, we get to have some say if we think that a juror is, or might be biased against us.  Of course, dpreview are not bound by rights accepted under law and fought for over many generations.

Should a Mod be permitted to delete messages with multiple "thumbs up" that break no rules?

The "multiple 'thumbs up'" only has relevance in that a comment receives support from other members, but has no relevance on whether it had broken the rules.  If you've checked the 22 Forum Rules carefully and can see that none have been broken, then, NO, a Mod should not be permitted to delete such messages.

Should a Mod be permitted to issue "warnings" to a member for questioning the actions of the Mod?

Rule 2. States that, "Posts discussing moderator actions are not allowed and will be deleted."  According to this rule, they don't even need to issue a warning, they can just delete the post.  Whilst the rule stinks of totalitarianism, maybe it would be wiser to attempt a dialogue with the Mod via PM, as some people are very sensitive to what they will take as personal criticism and with Mod powers will be able to silence you.  Hopefully, if you go one on one with the Mod via PM, they will respect your private approach and be reasonable in response and most definitely should not fob you off, if contacted this way.  Here's hoping.

Should someone be given the powers of a Mod when they have themselves resorted to name calling and other rules infractions prior to receiving their new found powers?

Same answer as for your first question.

Should the power to ban a member rest with a Mod, or should the third strike (if that is what it is) rest with a higher authority?

Rule 1. Seems to give them this power.  Whether it's right or not, again dpreview are not bound by the accepted mores of modern society, so they can do what they want.

What was the selection basis for the Mods?

This has not been published to the best of my knowledge, but I believe that the first requirement is a pulse, as they clearly need volunteers and I do believe that moderation, with a light touch, is a requirement for this type of forum.

Will the performance of Mods be reviewed?

Who knows, as again, this has not been disclosed, to my knowledge.

Are over-zealous and biased Mods healthy for the forums and business model?

In my experience, if you don't allow constructive criticism, debate, disagreement and the concept of challenging ideas and preconceptions, you always end up with declining standards, the acceptance of the status quo and mediocrity.  Let's hope that they don't prove to be over-zealous and biased, as if so, many of the best and most useful contributors will leave and the descent into mediocrity will accelerate.

I suspect the answers to these questions will become readily apparent when I am banned. I've already received two warnings in the last twelve hours for similar messages. Whether or not I am banned, I will not be spending much time here (or the Sony forum) until there are some changes!

If you're banned, my responses will most likely get me banned also, which would be a shame all around, but if you cannot challenge and question, then what is the point!

I do feel, however, that the level of abuse and aggression on this site, had to be addressed.  Let's hope that the new setup beds down nicely, after a few teething issues.

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richarddd
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Re: Questions to forum members and administrators?
In reply to digititus, Dec 16, 2012

digititus wrote:

Should a Mod be permitted to issue "warnings" to a member for questioning the actions of the Mod?

Every moderated forum I've participated in has a rule against publicly questioning specific moderator actions. General discussions of rules and moderation are usually allowed.

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Barrie Davis
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Re: This is a private owned site. They moderate it as they want...
In reply to Osvaldo Cristo, Dec 16, 2012

Osvaldo Cristo wrote:

This is a private owned site. They moderate it as they want.

We, users of the site can express our opinions as you are doing now, and at most just to let the site if we strongly disagree with their criterions.

But the bottom line is: yes, their mod can do all are you talking about.

IMO the site is great if you consider it is free of charge.

Free or not... (I have paid in the past) ... I'm beginning to feel that the price of coming here is RISING!

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Baz
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v steffel
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Re: Questions to forum members and administrators?
In reply to Piginho, Dec 16, 2012

A good set of points.

However, there is a"moderator" on another DPR Forum who has shown his biases from almost day one of signing up for DPR.  This "moderator" demanded that one writer to apologize and insisted he was wrong.  This same "moderator" did not criticize any of the "bullies" on the forum. This was not a single instance, but on numerous occasions he acted in this self-righteous way.   He may have been selected to act as a moderator because the committee making the selections did not know this.  Moreover, it would have taken too much time to read all of his messages.
Best wishes,

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TrapperJohn
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An even simpler question to ask...
In reply to digititus, Dec 16, 2012

Before you post anything, ask yourself - what does this have to do with photography? That is the basic purpose of this site.

Far too often, the fora get clogged up with social spat threads that are dull, tedious, and serve absolutely no useful purpose other than two or three individuals getting a bit self absorbed in their little non photographic drama: personal insults, miffed that their post was deleted, what have you.

I have sort of violated that question myself by even posting this, but it does illustrate a very obvious point. If it isn't related to photography, it doesn't belong here. There are scads of general purpose social media for that sort of thing.

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Pedagydusz
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Re: Questions to forum members and administrators?
In reply to v steffel, Dec 16, 2012

You are casting accusations to "one moderator" without specifying who, or in which forum. Thus you are casting a suspicion on every moderator for being the "culprit" (because what you accuse this "anonymous moderator" is indeed quite objectionable).

I think you should particularize who you mean, even at risk of being banned yourself. Otherwise, you have no moral ground to make accusations!

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Deleted1929
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Moderator trial-by-accusation not allowed
In reply to v steffel, Dec 16, 2012

Moderator Statement :

If any of you have an issue with a specific moderator then contact the Admins.  That's the ONLY legitimate route for this sort of issue.

Vague or specific allegations made in forums against moderators won't be tolerated.

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StephenG

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DonA2
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Re: An even simpler question to ask...
In reply to TrapperJohn, Dec 16, 2012

There will always be some troublemakers who simply won't accept common sense rules.  These people should just move on and find some other means to assert their chaotic mind set.  All societies have police officers for a very good reason.  The majority wants it that way and the last time I checked, that is 'democracy' at work.  There is enough allowances for descent and opposition without resorting to throwing 'bricks'.

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Graystar
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Re: This is a private owned site. They moderate it as they want...
In reply to Barrie Davis, Dec 16, 2012

Barrie Davis wrote:

Osvaldo Cristo wrote:

This is a private owned site. They moderate it as they want.

We, users of the site can express our opinions as you are doing now, and at most just to let the site if we strongly disagree with their criterions.

But the bottom line is: yes, their mod can do all are you talking about.

IMO the site is great if you consider it is free of charge.

Free or not... (I have paid in the past) ... I'm beginning to feel that the price of coming here is RISING!

I agree.  I, for one, used to make many more posts than I currently do.  I have thousands of helpful posts...the kind of posts that people come to forums for, when looking for information and advice (and the kind that boosts DPReview forum usage, and by extension, the value of the advertising space they sell.)  But these recent changes have made the forum tedious to use, and this "mod" thing is annoying as well, and will likely cause me to make even fewer posts.  I hope DPReview gets the returns it's expecting from these changes, 'cause they're certainly not going to get, from me, more of the revenue-boosting type of content they desire.

The forum has more traffic than all other forums out there.  So what does DPReview do?  They make changes (and poorly executed changes to boot.) I just don't understand it.

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goetz48
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I think it is necessary
In reply to digititus, Dec 16, 2012

that moderators use different identities when acting as moderator or when making private remarks.

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Simon Joinson
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Re: This is a private owned site. They moderate it as they want...
In reply to Graystar, Dec 17, 2012

Graystar wrote:

Barrie Davis wrote:

Osvaldo Cristo wrote:

This is a private owned site. They moderate it as they want.

We, users of the site can express our opinions as you are doing now, and at most just to let the site if we strongly disagree with their criterions.

But the bottom line is: yes, their mod can do all are you talking about.

IMO the site is great if you consider it is free of charge.

Free or not... (I have paid in the past) ... I'm beginning to feel that the price of coming here is RISING!

I agree. I, for one, used to make many more posts than I currently do. I have thousands of helpful posts...the kind of posts that people come to forums for, when looking for information and advice (and the kind that boosts DPReview forum usage, and by extension, the value of the advertising space they sell.) But these recent changes have made the forum tedious to use, and this "mod" thing is annoying as well, and will likely cause me to make even fewer posts.

Why? Because if you call someone a **** or spam us you might be more quickly moderated?

I hope DPReview gets the returns it's expecting from these changes, 'cause they're certainly not going to get, from me, more of the revenue-boosting type of content they desire.\

Out of interest, what possible commercial benefit could be gained by adding some (long requested by a lot of people) new moderators? I mean yes it stops our reviewers wasting half their time moderating, which could result in more content and therefore could be beneficial to the site. But really, is it possible for you to consider that we might actually be trying to, you know, just make things better here?

The forum has more traffic than all other forums out there. So what does DPReview do? They make changes (and poorly executed changes to boot.) I just don't understand it.

You're not the one reading through the complaints every day - things were far from perfect here before we changed anything. We are actively trying to make the forums better. That's all.

SJ

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Graystar
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Re: This is a private owned site. They moderate it as they want...
In reply to Simon Joinson, Dec 17, 2012

Simon Joinson wrote:

Graystar wrote:

But these recent changes have made the forum tedious to use, and this "mod" thing is annoying as well, and will likely cause me to make even fewer posts.

Why? Because if you call someone a **** or spam us you might be more quickly moderated?

If that's all they were doing then it would be fine.  But I've already had a post removed that didn't fall into those categories because it was a response to some other post that was removed (and removed by someone who I consider a questionable choice as a mod.)  That just leaves a bad taste in my mouth and makes me feel like not posting.

DPReview staff has done this to me as well with comments...removing comments I made that didn't violate any rule, other than to point out some mistake DPReview had made.  Correcting the mistake warrants a reply to my comment...not the removal of it (especially when it takes all the "likes" with it.)

I hope DPReview gets the returns it's expecting from these changes, 'cause they're certainly not going to get, from me, more of the revenue-boosting type of content they desire.\

Out of interest, what possible commercial benefit could be gained by adding some (long requested by a lot of people) new moderators?

If you're adding mods then it must be an attempt to make the forums "nicer" which appeals to more people which increases traffic which increases traffic based revenue, along with more chance of people clicking on camera links to Amazon for purchases.  And I seriously doubt you needed that explained to you.

We are actively trying to make the forums better. That's all.

It's great that you want to make things better.  But like the forum updates so vividly demonstrated...it doesn't always work out that way.

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v steffel
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Understand and Understood
In reply to v steffel, Dec 17, 2012

I have been on DPR web site from the early 2000s and I have read many threads and messages.  I don't comment often, but I will provide assistance if I can and if I think that I'm not being redundant.

As to providing a name at this time, I will not provide the name.  No one is being charged with a crime.  Also, I am standing on moral ground--this is not the Inquisition.  But with all the discussion going on I do have the right and the moral obligation to raise a flag.

We will have to wait and see if as a moderator this individual performs his duties without bias.

I don't think that I would argue with a moderator on a forum.  If I choose to contest a decision it will be a formal complaint.

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Makinations
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Re: This is a private owned site. They moderate it as they want...
In reply to Graystar, Dec 17, 2012

Graystar wrote:


We are actively trying to make the forums better. That's all.

It's great that you want to make things better. But like the forum updates so vividly demonstrated...it doesn't always work out that way.

How so?

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Graystar
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Re: This is a private owned site. They moderate it as they want...
In reply to Makinations, Dec 17, 2012

Makinations wrote:

Graystar wrote:


We are actively trying to make the forums better. That's all.

It's great that you want to make things better. But like the forum updates so vividly demonstrated...it doesn't always work out that way.

How so?

The update of the forum code was a disaster.  There were many bugs (and there still are) along with the "thumbs down" mess, the "quoting" and general editor mess (which still doesn't work right) and the "new posts" mess (something else that still doesn't work right.)  In the end, the current forum experience isn't as good as it used to be (and it wasn't that great to begin with) and there are no benefits to show for it.

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Alpha Jack
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Re: Questions to forum members and administrators?
In reply to digititus, Dec 17, 2012

Can one mod ban another mod?
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