Any ideas on how well Fuji X series are selling?

Started Dec 14, 2012 | Discussions
Teera
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Any ideas on how well Fuji X series are selling?
Dec 14, 2012

I plan to invest more on the X lenses but if things turn not so good for the X, I may bite the bullet and save money for  the new Leica M if it can match images at iso 3200 with the X Looking from number of posts here Fuji X has 5xx,xxx posts, Sony Nex has slightly less than 3xx,xxx, and Leica is 2xx,xxx posts and the largest mirrorless is m4/3 at 8xx,xxx.  Fuji seems to be fine and at current price point, the X-E1 should help expand market share of Fuji. IMO DPR's speedy review of the X-E1 is another positive indicator.What do you think of the future of the X?

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57even
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Re: Any ideas on how well Fuji X series are selling?
In reply to Teera, Dec 14, 2012

Teera wrote:

I plan to invest more on the X lenses but if things turn not so good for the X, I may bite the bullet and save money for the new Leica M if it can match images at iso 3200 with the X Looking from number of posts here Fuji X has 5xx,xxx posts, Sony Nex has slightly less than 3xx,xxx, and Leica is 2xx,xxx posts and the largest mirrorless is m4/3 at 8xx,xxx. Fuji seems to be fine and at current price point, the X-E1 should help expand market share of Fuji. IMO DPR's speedy review of the X-E1 is another positive indicator.What do you think of the future of the X?

Like all new ideas, some people are immediately trying to damn it, and others are enthusiastic because the camera themselves are so nice.

For a first generation product it is remarkable. Other manufacturers must be wondering what they could achieve with these arrays. The research has been around for some time, but available in-camera processors have only recently become powerful enough to handle it, and working out algorithms for interpolation is far from trivial, even if the theoretical maths is understood.

I am one of the optimistic ones. I can only see future generations beginning to exploit this technology to its limits, and Fuji's body and lens lineup is looking very nice indeed. Far better than the disjointed MFT one or the sorely lacking NEX one. In fact Samsung is doing a better job than Sony with some very nice lenses (perhaps Samsung are Unsung...:-)

Fuji have the muscle to push this. I hope very much they succeed. If they don't I will have a lot of fun taking pictures, and the lenses will still work on a conventional version of the cameras in the future, so I don't worry.

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Drewpy
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Re: Any ideas on how well Fuji X series are selling?
In reply to 57even, Dec 14, 2012

I think the X-E1 is No. 1 on Amazon.

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mutatron
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Re: Any ideas on how well Fuji X series are selling?
In reply to Drewpy, Dec 14, 2012

Amazon currently ranks the silver X-E1 w/ kit lens at 17, and the black one at 20 in Best Sellers in Compact System Cameras.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/electronics/3109924011/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_e_1_4_last

Rankings could be different by the time you click on this.

Nikon, Panasonic, Olympus, and Sony occupy all the other top 20 spots, and the E-M5 tops out at 21.

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57even
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Re: Any ideas on how well Fuji X series are selling?
In reply to mutatron, Dec 14, 2012

mutatron wrote:

Amazon currently ranks the silver X-E1 w/ kit lens at 17, and the black one at 20 in Best Sellers in Compact System Cameras.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/electronics/3109924011/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_e_1_4_last

Rankings could be different by the time you click on this.

Nikon, Panasonic, Olympus, and Sony occupy all the other top 20 spots, and the E-M5 tops out at 21.

Funny - I remember all the pundits on here saying the Nikon 1 would be a total flop...

Considering most of the competing Oly and Sony cameras are older, discounted ones, the X-E1 is the top brand new model on there apart from the G5....

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Highlander77
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Re: Any ideas on how well Fuji X series are selling?
In reply to mutatron, Dec 15, 2012

I'm sure that there's enough interest/demand for Fuji to pursue the development of new models. X system is here to stay for a very long time. However, the reason I don't want to invest into current lenses (I only have the X-E1 with 35 1.4) is because I'm sure that within a couple of years Fuji will come out with a full frame camera and current lenses most likely will not fit. That's why I've been thinking about buying a zeiss or a leica lens with an adaptor for portrait work. For Zeiss I've been thinking about planar 50, and there are more choices with leica like summicron 50, 75, 90, and summarit 75. If anyone has used these lenses with fuji would you please share your opinions please. I've read what I could find on the net but there's still not a lot of info about technical aspects on the fuji sensor.

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Rod McD
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Re: Any ideas on how well Fuji X series are selling?
In reply to Teera, Dec 15, 2012

I don't know that anyone outside Fuji has sales data. In any case that's only half the equation.

It seems to me that Fuji's difficulty getting enough XE1 zoom kits to all parts of the world tells us something about demand, as does their advice that they've had to defer their production of other lenses to meet the demand for the zoom lens itself.

It's just anecdotal, but the forums' membership seem (principally) to be a happy lot - which bodes well for their models and their lenses. You don't have to look too far to find new model releases that didn't go so well....... And Sony just haven't got the native e-mount lens range or IQ that appeals as much as the Fuji offerings.

I'm still waiting to see a zoom kit where I live in Australia. I'm just holding off on the purchase waiting for a few reviews and the release of the other lenses. I really want to know that the 14mm, 23mm and/or the wide zoom are top performers too.

If there's to be a cat amongst the pigeons, it may be someone releasing an FF mirrorless ILC.  Sony have been rumored to be working on the FF NEX9 for ages and have stated publicly that they're looking at it.......

BTW, someone mentioned holding onto the X lenses for potential use on other cameras. I don't know whether that's feasible - whatever body they're mounted on, Fuji or otherwise, it has to support the focus by wire software that drives the lens elements.

Rod

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Peter Leyenaar
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Re: Any ideas on how well Fuji X series are selling?
In reply to Rod McD, Dec 15, 2012

I spoke to one of  Fuji technical people as I am having problems with my x100(macro error message) here in Canada, he mentioned that they have difficulty keeping up with the demand.

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Peter Leyenaar
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Re: Any ideas on how well Fuji X series are selling?
In reply to Peter Leyenaar, Dec 15, 2012

Peter Leyenaar wrote:

I spoke to one of Fuji technical people as I am having problems with my x100(macro error message) here in Canada, he mentioned that they have difficulty keeping up with the demand.

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Peter Leyenaar

I should have mentioned the demand for the E X1

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Kokeen4231
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Re: Any ideas on how well Fuji X series are selling?
In reply to Teera, Dec 16, 2012

Well, Fujifilm sales are largely dependent on the x series.

From where I come from, Singapore, at least fuji is doing not to bad. At one of the biggest photo outlets in Singapore, according to survey Fuji was the no. 2 bestseller displacing Nikon but behind the no.1 Canon. Mainly because of the x series.

In Japan, I heard this from a fuji guy that the x pro 1 sold so well that they recieved complaints of lack of stock.

When the x100 was first released, fuji claimed thay sold twice more than expected.

In hond kong where I was recently, many shops said to buy the x e1 you had to pre order as they sold quite fast. Could be due to limited stock but who knows.

Know fuji has a lens roadmap up to the end of 2013 and they have patented a new sensor with phase detection this time, so expect faster cameras.

In the near future, I feel fuji x has hope.

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unknown member
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Japan Market Share
In reply to Kokeen4231, Dec 16, 2012

Kokeen4231 wrote:

Well, Fujifilm sales are largely dependent on the x series.

From where I come from, Singapore, at least fuji is doing not to bad. At one of the biggest photo outlets in Singapore, according to survey Fuji was the no. 2 bestseller displacing Nikon but behind the no.1 Canon. Mainly because of the x series.

In Japan, I heard this from a fuji guy that the x pro 1 sold so well that they recieved complaints of lack of stock.

Just as the X-E1 came out there was a large industry study on the mirrorless market in Japan. Fujifilm's market share came in at 2% or less. Waaaay beyind Olympus, Panasonic, Nikon, Pentax, and even Canon (where the M was released only 1 month or so earlier).

http://www.cameradebate.com/2012/mirrorless-market-share-2011-2012/

It will be interesting to see if Fujifilm's X-E1 improves these numbers.

On a side note, I went back and looked at each annual corporate report from Fujifilm all the way back to 2005. In every year from 2012 down to 2005, Fujifilm's Imaging Solutions group (where digital cameras reside) has lost money. Every year. Not one penny in profit.

That stat I found absolutely amazing. I wonder what year Fujifilm last made any money in cameras.

When the x100 was first released, fuji claimed thay sold twice more than expected.

In hond kong where I was recently, many shops said to buy the x e1 you had to pre order as they sold quite fast. Could be due to limited stock but who knows.

Know fuji has a lens roadmap up to the end of 2013 and they have patented a new sensor with phase detection this time, so expect faster cameras.

In the near future, I feel fuji x has hope.

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bartolyni
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Re: Japan Market Share
In reply to rattymouse, Dec 16, 2012

No doubt something is acutely and chillingly lacking in your life...this can not be normal!! You need to have a very deep moment of reflection and look for better ways to heal the wound inside you! Bashing everything Fuji can not and will not be a lasting solution….

rattymouse wrote:

Kokeen4231 wrote:

Well, Fujifilm sales are largely dependent on the x series.

From where I come from, Singapore, at least fuji is doing not to bad. At one of the biggest photo outlets in Singapore, according to survey Fuji was the no. 2 bestseller displacing Nikon but behind the no.1 Canon. Mainly because of the x series.

In Japan, I heard this from a fuji guy that the x pro 1 sold so well that they recieved complaints of lack of stock.

Just as the X-E1 came out there was a large industry study on the mirrorless market in Japan. Fujifilm's market share came in at 2% or less. Waaaay beyind Olympus, Panasonic, Nikon, Pentax, and even Canon (where the M was released only 1 month or so earlier).

http://www.cameradebate.com/2012/mirrorless-market-share-2011-2012/

It will be interesting to see if Fujifilm's X-E1 improves these numbers.

On a side note, I went back and looked at each annual corporate report from Fujifilm all the way back to 2005. In every year from 2012 down to 2005, Fujifilm's Imaging Solutions group (where digital cameras reside) has lost money. Every year. Not one penny in profit.

That stat I found absolutely amazing. I wonder what year Fujifilm last made any money in cameras.

When the x100 was first released, fuji claimed thay sold twice more than expected.

In hond kong where I was recently, many shops said to buy the x e1 you had to pre order as they sold quite fast. Could be due to limited stock but who knows.

Know fuji has a lens roadmap up to the end of 2013 and they have patented a new sensor with phase detection this time, so expect faster cameras.

In the near future, I feel fuji x has hope.

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DISCLAIMER: The text written herein is meant to provide the opinions and/or suggestions of the author. No statement herein is meant to be considered law of the land, representative of any party or group, and or a quote from any party or group. Neither is any statement in the contained text meant to be taken as scripture, doctrine, or all encompassing of an entire populous or any groups or individuals therein.

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Rod McD
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Re: Japan Market Share
In reply to rattymouse, Dec 16, 2012

Hi,

I don't know what you can make of the survey done as the XE1 came out.  It probably means that the survey only took into account XP1 and X100 sales (unless it took all compacts and bridge cameras into account too - it depends how one defines "mirrorless" and I don't know how they defined it.)  To be honest the 2% figure doesn't surprise me if it was based on just the XP1 and X100.  They're two premium models only and at the top end of the market prices.

Of the annual financial reports....... On the face of it, it does sound surprising, but I don't know how to interpret it and what it means to Fuji's investors.

Rod

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Re: Japan Market Share
In reply to Rod McD, Dec 16, 2012

Rod McD wrote:

Hi,

I don't know what you can make of the survey done as the XE1 came out. It probably means that the survey only took into account XP1 and X100 sales (unless it took all compacts and bridge cameras into account too - it depends how one defines "mirrorless" and I don't know how they defined it.) To be honest the 2% figure doesn't surprise me if it was based on just the XP1 and X100. They're two premium models only and at the top end of the market prices.

Of the annual financial reports....... On the face of it, it does sound surprising, but I don't know how to interpret it and what it means to Fuji's investors.

Rod

I believe that they counted just the X Pro 1 in that survey, so yeah a low showing is to be expected, but 2% seems a bit too low.

Regarding the Imaging Solutions division of Fujifilm, I guess Fuji's investors are comfortable propping up a money losing business, for whatever reason.

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mbb101
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Re: Japan Market Share
In reply to rattymouse, Dec 16, 2012

rattymouse wrote:

Rod McD wrote:

Hi,

I don't know what you can make of the survey done as the XE1 came out. It probably means that the survey only took into account XP1 and X100 sales (unless it took all compacts and bridge cameras into account too - it depends how one defines "mirrorless" and I don't know how they defined it.) To be honest the 2% figure doesn't surprise me if it was based on just the XP1 and X100. They're two premium models only and at the top end of the market prices.

Of the annual financial reports....... On the face of it, it does sound surprising, but I don't know how to interpret it and what it means to Fuji's investors.

Rod

I believe that they counted just the X Pro 1 in that survey, so yeah a low showing is to be expected, but 2% seems a bit too low.

Regarding the Imaging Solutions division of Fujifilm, I guess Fuji's investors are comfortable propping up a money losing business, for whatever reason.

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DISCLAIMER: The text written herein is meant to provide the opinions and/or suggestions of the author. No statement herein is meant to be considered law of the land, representative of any party or group, and or a quote from any party or group. Neither is any statement in the contained text meant to be taken as scripture, doctrine, or all encompassing of an entire populous or any groups or individuals therein.

I've just looked at the financials of Fujifilm Holdings and it does appear that they have lost money for some time. However this would appear to probably be related to the severe decline in  analogue products such as film and photographic papers. If you consider that Fuji is  a major player in the graphic arts industry and imaging techniques have changed radically over the last ten years then one can see that Fuji has been managing a  massive change in their markets. In 2009 they had a double digit loss of revenue due to reduction in film and paper usage. It appears that Fuji have managed that rather better than Kodak for instance with their losses in the imaging division amounting to only about 3% of their total profit in the last year.

It should also be borne in mind as the film business is an old technology then the R&D and capital costs in the future are going to be very low therefore it is likely that the business will have strong positive cash flows which can be used to finance the more innovative and profitable side of their business.

Finally it may be that the camera and lense business  is very  profitable and it is the film business which is incurring the losses. Given the way that the company have emphasised the success of the X series cameras in their most recent revenue statement then it seems likely that Fuji will be investing more not less  in digital imaging.

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TThorne
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Re: Japan Market Share
In reply to bartolyni, Dec 16, 2012

bartolyni wrote:


No doubt something is acutely and chillingly lacking in your life...this can not be normal!! You need to have a very deep moment of reflection and look for better ways to heal the wound inside you! Bashing everything Fuji can not and will not be a lasting solution….

rattymouse wrote:

Kokeen4231 wrote:

Well, Fujifilm sales are largely dependent on the x series.

From where I come from, Singapore, at least fuji is doing not to bad. At one of the biggest photo outlets in Singapore, according to survey Fuji was the no. 2 bestseller displacing Nikon but behind the no.1 Canon. Mainly because of the x series.

In Japan, I heard this from a fuji guy that the x pro 1 sold so well that they recieved complaints of lack of stock.

Just as the X-E1 came out there was a large industry study on the mirrorless market in Japan. Fujifilm's market share came in at 2% or less. Waaaay beyind Olympus, Panasonic, Nikon, Pentax, and even Canon (where the M was released only 1 month or so earlier).

http://www.cameradebate.com/2012/mirrorless-market-share-2011-2012/

It will be interesting to see if Fujifilm's X-E1 improves these numbers.

On a side note, I went back and looked at each annual corporate report from Fujifilm all the way back to 2005. In every year from 2012 down to 2005, Fujifilm's Imaging Solutions group (where digital cameras reside) has lost money. Every year. Not one penny in profit.

That stat I found absolutely amazing. I wonder what year Fujifilm last made any money in cameras.

When the x100 was first released, fuji claimed thay sold twice more than expected.

In hond kong where I was recently, many shops said to buy the x e1 you had to pre order as they sold quite fast. Could be due to limited stock but who knows.

Know fuji has a lens roadmap up to the end of 2013 and they have patented a new sensor with phase detection this time, so expect faster cameras.

In the near future, I feel fuji x has hope.

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DISCLAIMER: The text written herein is meant to provide the opinions and/or suggestions of the author. No statement herein is meant to be considered law of the land, representative of any party or group, and or a quote from any party or group. Neither is any statement in the contained text meant to be taken as scripture, doctrine, or all encompassing of an entire populous or any groups or individuals therein.

If you would be so kind as to point out the bashing... That would be swell.

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A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on. - Sir Winston Churchill

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