Upgrade of D700 to D800 - Handheld Question

I am ready to upgrade from my D700 (which I love).  I am not worried about the file sizes, fps, etc. for what I shoot.

Two goals:

- Better dynamic range

- Video

Question: From a practical user perspective, how significnat an issue is shooting handheld with the D800?  I have read both that "it is" and "it is not an issue".

ALternative is the D4 - but would prefer that with a little higher resolution.

Thanks in advance.

--
Tom

not an issue.

If you downsize to 12MP you'll have the same amount of motion blur you had with the D700.

If you want full 36MP maxed out resolution you'll need a tripod (and good glass).

Like any camera, if you want to print big (and the D800 will allow you to print big) and make the absolute most of the high res sensor then you need to take lots of care. Talk of tripods is misleading as this doesn't take into account high shutter speeds.

The misunderstanding is that some people wrongly believe that the D800 will be worse than a lower res camera when compared like for like. It won't.

I've had my D800 for about 4 months and I shoot mostly handheld. I've had mixed results. I have a 24-120 f4 VR zoom and the first time I used the camera/lens I forgot to turn on the VR and my results were borderline, but that was my fault. I think I got used to sloppy technique with my D200 so trying to carry over that technique to the D800 simply won't work. The camera will give excellent results if you do your part.

Not an issue at all. I almost exclusively shoot hand held with a variety of lenses, in and outdoors and don't have any problems. Why would the D800 be a bigger problem than any other camera?

The D4 is nice, but heavy and far too expensive. Also, if higher resolution is what you want the D4 is not the solution. Another thing is, if you worry about hand holding the D800 in which way would it be easier with the D4?

It's not an issue.

The misconception that the D700 is 'easier' comes from this:

Many people incorporate 100% views into their workflow/shot checkout (I do as well,) and if they notice motion blur they may get the idea that the D700 seemed 'more forgiving', because they don't remember seeing motion blur in those same situations with the D700 at 100%. But if they were able to shoot both side by side, same scene, same settings, they would see that the D700 in those shutter-speed-constrained situations simply had no detail where the D800 may have showed slightly blurred detail. (And of course at regular display sizes, that blur/lack-of-detail evens out and you wouldn't really detect either more than the other.)

In situations where you have adequate shutter speed (usually about 1/FL or greater,) the D800 will always show more detail, lens + settings being the same. Even handheld, and even when the D800 shot is downsampled to 12MP, or even less. I can see differences in output down to about 1600 pixel-width downsamples. It's especially apparent in high-ISO shots - downsampling is not really technically noise reduction, but it has the effect of creating a crisper, cleaner shot aesthetically.

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--
Here are a few of my favorite things...
---> http://www.flickr.com/photos/95095968@N00/sets/72157626171532197/

That was a good answer, both answers above are good. I would just like to add that it depends on what you are photographing. If you're using wide-angle to mid-range zoom and photographing moving objects, you're fine with handheld. If you're shooting landscapes or static subjects, use a tripod.
What's really going on here is that Nikon has made a camera that allows you to take the time and get better results than previous cameras because of that amazing resolution. If you have plenty of time and use a tripod, a shutter release, and use Live-View, Mirror-Up then your D800 images will be more crisp than your D700 images. It's something you'll need to see, but the difference is such that it's worth the trouble to do all this when you're in front of a good waterfalls or a nice mountain scene.
What this means is that the D800's resolution is so incredibly high that most people don't ever use it. A handheld shot is never going to be as sharp as a solid technique tripod shot, ever. The only way to see the full resolution of 36MP is proper tripod technique, otherwise it's blurred to varying degrees and its useful resolution quickly becomes less. So if you aren't using the camera for its intended purpose (Landscapes and Studio work), get the D4. It's meant for people and birding. etc.

All that said, I often use the D800 for things other than what it is meant for. I like the results, but I know that they are never going to be 36MP of useful data. I get that out in the field when I'm using the full potential of the camera and being extremely deliberate. It's time-consuming, and it's a slower experience than other cameras; but the results are like looking at the next level of your photography. Every picture is like a panorama there's so much detail. That's true 36MP quality and the only way you get it is by taking your time and being quiet and methodical and precise.

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There are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

You will get a lot of EXPERT opinions to your question but in the end the only opinion that matters is yours.   Rent a D800 and try it in a variety of situations and camera settings, then you will have your answer from the only expert that matters.

Agree 100% with this answer, I have both the 700 and 800E.

glo

The D4 is meant for moving objects. Put it in the hands of a fashion photographer, a sports journalist, or a street photographer, or a birder and this camera SCREAMS professional. Those people would rather jump ship to Canon than use the D800 for those purposes.

Also, Nikon put out a PSA about how to use the camera, the leading official reviewers all agree that the camera benefits from proper tripod technique; but you admit to "almost exclusively" shooting handheld, so how would you even know the difference? My guess is that there wouldn't be very much resolution difference at all between your D800 and someone's D4 photography. The resolution difference is going to be easily discerned though when you compare D4 and D800 photographs where both cameras were locked down on tripods, set to mirror-up, and engaged with remotes. Because that's when a subject will be in perfect focus and you'll be able to zoom in quite a lot farther into the frame on that D800 because *THAT* is what resolution is. Will it translate to a picture put on your facebook page? Nope. Will it translate to a 20x30 print, yes because *THAT* is what resolution is. Another way you could use all that resolution is by cropping WAY WAY into a scene. If you have the resolution, you can do this; but only if you used proper technique first because otherwise the image is not exactly sharp, and that's not exactly useful for crop work.
I use the D800 camera for handheld stuff myself. But I don't pretend it's functioning at a 36MP level when I do so. When I need the full potential of all that resolution, I use proper technique.

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There are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

It's a good question though. Because it starts asking other questions, such as "why". And that provides learning, which is why the poster asked the question.

The reason you ask EXPERTS is because they have EXPERIENCE.
I don't understand why you would tell someone that their question has no validity unless they take the time to self-teach themselves. The whole idea for the question is to gain knowledge from someone else's experience. I don't think that I would gain enough useful experience from a single rental, so now I have to rent it several times, plus the drive there and back to the camera store, plus what experiments do I choose to do, what settings should I use to determine all this?
It's far easier to ask for advice. It doesn't make someone lazy, it's actually quite intelligent.
The EXPERT opinion he needs though is probably going to be buried in random tangents that don't help him answer the question...

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There are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

This is the crux of it. People are comparing the two cameras at 100% and then saying that the D800 is softer. You should compare two images at the same size, not at two completely different sizes.

This is slightly misleading, because your D800 images will be usually be more crisp than a lower-resolution even without taking those steps.

The OP was asking about handheld shooting, and the fact is that if you are not shooting at lowish shutter speeds, the D800 will resolve more - even handheld. You may not be maximizing that output, but you don't need to maximize it to get better output. This is an element of the misconception: maximize is not required for better.

You said "A handheld shot is never going to be as sharp as a solid technique tripod shot, ever. " At high shutter speeds they may be so close as to not be able to tell the difference - but again, even if the shutter speeds are lower, you don't need to maximize the output to simply get better shots.

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--
Here are a few of my favorite things...
---> http://www.flickr.com/photos/95095968@N00/sets/72157626171532197/

For me I won't even consider shooting my D800 any more at 1/60 or 1/120 because  it is noticeably blur. With my D700 I can easily shoot at 1/60. The safest for me after careful testing is at 1/160 or tripod. I can get away at 1/120 but am pushing at that point.

So I strongly disagree with all these people that say it doesn't matter. Now my D800 has AF issues so it could play a part on my finding.

work on your technique or buy a flash

and based on your post history you are a canon troll

pathetic

I would argue the point, but all you seem to do is follow me around to disagree with me. So I think I'd rather just let you keep using your camera the wrong way. I also think it's due time to place you on the ignore list. I haven't found one thing you've said to be useful anyway, and I don't like stalkers.

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There are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

You could, but you'd lose the point again, unless you can come up with a better argument or present some evidence to bolster your argument...  which I can do.

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I happened to post in the thread first, it seems more as if you're followingme around.

At any rate, in your entry into this thread you wrong once again - or actually 'partially right', and just right enough to confuse people about the important parts you're wrong about.

I and others have presented actual evidence that handheld shots between the two cameras will always favor the higher-res sensor, all else being equal, or be the same if the shutter speeds are below your personal ability to handhold steady (which for most folks falls around 1/FL or less - but varies from person to person.)

That's pretty much what the OP was asking - unfortunately threads like these get input from folks like you who confuse the issue, answer from the standpoint of personal limitations or just basically get the facts wrong.

(I would appreciate being put on your ignore list, by the way - very much. That way I can correct you when you're wrong without having to deal with a tiresome rant, and we can keep these threads on topic! )

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--
Here are a few of my favorite things...
---> http://www.flickr.com/photos/95095968@N00/sets/72157626171532197/

I couldn't care less about what Canon shooters think about the D4. The discussion here is about if the D800 can be used hand held or not and if the D4 would be better for that or not. In my opinion it would NOT be better. The D4 is far more heavier than the D800 and to hand hold it for a whole day is MORE tiring than to do the same with the D800.

That's exactly the point. You always get higher resolution if you have the camera on a tripod, but comparing one hand held the other on tripod is kind of apples and oranges, pointless discussion. Personally I don't envy anyone with the D4 BECAUSE of the weight and the lower resolution. Never the less, I bet you that the D4 can be beaten by the D800 in steady hands with the same lens resolution wise, even if you shoot with the D4 on a tripod using a remote, assuming the conditions are right, which is studio, good light and high enough shutter speed.

No, you don't have to pretend you get full 36MP resolution hand held, but if shooting hand held is a problem with the D800 it is an even bigger problem with the d4.

Exactly. And also not one hand held the other firmly on tripod.

Couldn't agree more. He is confusing maximum resolution with better resolution.