Nikon UK position on the D600 dust issue

Wanted to buy a D600 so I thought I would check with Nikon if they solved the dust issue.

I just spoke to them twice, by phone and chat. They deny the D600 ever had any dust issue and they are not aware of the problem. I told them to google "D600 dust" because they are not in the loop. Of course they know of the problem, they fooled me and I hate that feeling.

They could have said "yes we are aware of the accumulation of dust on sensor but that is physiological blah blah" and I would have still bought it, maybe waiting a few more weeks, because I am sure that sooner or later they will fix it, but their lies were simply unacceptable.

Tomorrow I will place an order for a Canon 6D, maybe inferior camera but I don't do business with dishonest people: did you hear that Nikon??

What did you expect? I know that it would be nice for Nikon to make an official position but Iam sure by now you know how Nikon operates. They will wait for the official position of Nikon Japan and then they will make an official position or will just solve it silently.

Good luck by the way with your 6D. Iam sure they are all capable cameras. For me I am placing an order on D600 by the end of this week. The weather here is dull so it will be used close to wide open and by the time spring comes, it will be ready for cleaning that is if it will have that glitch. But I am sure I will be happy with it just as you will be happy with the 6D

and now ask canon!

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1153198

manfred

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Pbase supporter, NPS Austria
http://www.studio96.at

At least Nikon should be monitoring what the Internet says about one of their recent products and at least have some scripted blyah-blyah response aimed at those who called them on the phone. Dinosaurs died out because they failed to adapt. Nikon is following the bad example. Canon seems to be selling more bodies that are more expensive and inferior in many aspects. I guess their attitudes might be one of the factors.

Leo

Being a former canon user who had a 1Dmk3 camera for a week canon had the exact same responce to the 1dmk3 focusing problem. It was a REAL problem as I returned mine as it was a peice of junk when it first came out. It took canon about a year before they fixed it which required a mechanical fix to the sub mirror.

My point is canon had the same exact response that "we are unaware of any problem" yet much later had a fix that the camera REALLY needed. So if thats the ONLY reason you want to get the 6D good luck with that. Both companies do the EXACT same thing. Thinking other wise is foolish at best.

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http://www.pbase.com/dc9mm

Not spending £2,000 on the D600 until Nikon says they have fixed the problem, plus the answer from customer service also bothered me.

You should skip the 6D too, then, as Canon has not been flawless in it's business dealings either. Google "1DMK III focus issue" and read until your eyes hurt - there are still pros waiting for resolution from Canon, and they will probably never get it now that it's been so long. I know a couple of those people personally, as well, who have been given the royal run around with their issues. Recently there was a thread on the Canon forums about this as well, with people still waiting for the "fix".

Also, there is the 1DS III and 1D III oil spatter issue, which Canon has offered the exact same solution as Nikon for (Free cleanings):

http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/news/EOS_oil_spots.do

Or perhaps this 1DX dust/oil accumulation that appeared after only 2 months, far worse than any D600 I've seen pictures from:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1153198/0

Also (and this does not apply to you), I find that disgruntled people only believe companies when it's negative information, and if it's positive information, they throw common sense out the window and assume it is some giant conspiracy theory to protect their bottom line. It's a losing battle. For example, multiple Nikon reps in multiple countries have stated around 2% of D800's were affected with the AF issue (which is still a HUGE number of cameras, no question about it) - most people replied to that assuming some sort of conspiracy theory. Next, consider the D600 thread where a single person talked to a single employee at a Nikon service center in Europe about the "dust issue", the thread is full of people saying "I knew it!, I'm glad Nikon has finally addressed the problem, etc. etc." That is just a single example of something with far less credibility than another getting much more positive feedback just because it supported the thoughts of some people here. I completely understand we may never know the complete truth either way, but it was just an interesting observation of how people react - nothing more.

Anyways, the point is that if you only deal with companies who have been 100% flawless in their customer services dealings, you wouldn't be dealing with many companies. If you want a D600, buy it, and return it if you have issues with it.

Have you considered that it's possible they did not actually lie to you? The most likely scenario is that they haven't seen enough affected cameras in the department you questioned to consider it a real problem.

Internet forums are a horrible place to gather any statistical information, because unhappy people will tell 50 people, where as happy people may only tell 1 or 2.

Let me be clear in saying that I am not denying that some cameras are affected, but it is also possible that the department that provided your answer may not believe there is a problem based on their experience. I don't think Nikon looks on forums to see how many cameras are affected, but rather their own service departments, so telling them to google the "issue" likely won't get the response you're after.

Let me disagree. I think they get tons of calls like mine every day and they do monitor the web to check what people say about their products, they are no fools. Both gave me the same pre-baked answer (and that was clear from the tone of their voice), they also said that they would only deal with the person affected if the problem existed: meaning "you did not buy it so we cannot tell you the problem exists, first you give us the money then if you have that problem then we might have something for you"?? A free sensor cleaning?? Not sure...

Maybe I am naive, and I hear also Canon does the same, but I find it unacceptable.

Even if the "D600 dust" problem is purely imaginable and only exists in the realm of Internet, it is still wise to at least comment on this the Internet chatter. You cannot not simply go by ignoring the biggest information source in the world.

Leo

Thom Hogan claims that 10% to 40% of D800 bodies produced before July 2012 are affected with left-AF issue. Your number is smaller by an order of magnitude. Any reason why your number is more trustworthy than Thom's??

Leo

I had the same problem on my D700 years ago.  Within weeks I noticed an accumulation of oil spots from an "over lubricated" mirror.  I tried to clean it with swabs and made a bigger mess due to the residual oil around the sensor.  I had the sensor professionally cleaned and haven't had a problem since.

I saw a number of warnings (that I ignored) that recommend you should avoid self cleaning the sensor for the first time with swabs (unless you are very experienced at it) and have it professionally cleaned due to residual oil from the assembly process.

I suspect that over oiling can be an ongoing problem with camera manufacture and assembly.  Even Canon has that problem occasionally.

I doubt that Nikon did anything to the D600 sensor or sensor mechanism to make it a dust magnet.  I think there is a little bit of "Internet hysteria" taking place.  I also suspect that a good cleaning is the solution.

I'm not going to get into this with you again, we clearly disagree and you keep putting words into my mouth. Those are not "my" numbers, nor have I ever claimed them to be, or claimed them to be fact. I am just stating a second, equally credible source as anyone else (actually, multiple sources which say the same thing). You also conveniently left out the part where Thom said fewer than 20% of the people who thought they had the problem actually had the problem, which is a very relevant, yet independent statistic of the total cameras affected. Thom Hogan, while a respected member of the community, is also no more or less credible than a Nikon representative - he makes money off his website as well, and therefore benefits financially from any traffic he can generate.

I think we just need to agree to disagree. You don't even own a D600, yet you seem to have made it a personal mission of yours to get Nikon to admit something about the D600 dust "issue".

You are absolutely entitled to do whatever you wish with your money, and for whatever reason you may choose.

A few of us here are only pointing out that if you do not buy a D600 for the reasons you state, then you should also avoid the 6D as well if dishonest companies do not deserve your business. Turning around and buying a 6D because Nikon was dishonest with your inquiry would be very hypocritical (again, not that actually matters, you are free to do what you want with your money).  Canon has a long and unsettling history of dealing with issues as well - no company is perfect.

Best of luck with your decision. My dust/oil free D600 has been the best camera I've ever owned, and I bought mine on release day - I think you will be happy with it as well.

I had a D700. And a D90 and D7000. The D700 had three oil spots - cleaned and did not reoccur for 6 months.

In the same time my D600 had 30+ "oil" spots, and within 200 shots of its first (Nikon) clean, it has another 10.

I'm fine about cleaning things, but every WEEK?

From what I've read and heard, the spots are actually tiny drops of lubricant caused by mirror vibration.  I believe in the US Nikon have acknowledged the issue and are creating a remedy for it.

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John

Lately, Canon did acknowledge issues reported on the internet and fixed it. E.g the light leek issue on the 5d MKIII, even though the cameras with issues were only taped to fight te problem. But they knew which cameras were affected, and the problem in the factory was solved to prevent future cameras to suffer from the same issue. Also Canon responded to the focus issue on the 40 mm lens, bringing a firmware upgrade linked to a general upgrade ok the MKIII.

Thus, Canon at least shows they are listening and are fixing things. There is no such thing happening in the Nikon quarters.

My D600 has been at Nikon for dust, and the coating is coming off. The more I look at it, the more it looks like they actually did a paint job to obscure the issue. Never mind, the coating is rubbed off again and the sensor is full of dirt (dust or oil, whatever).

At the moment, the retailer has left the issue to be solved by Nikon. But Nikon is in no hurry and sofar refuse to respond to me or the retailer.

I'm a generous guy. I like to help those in need. Nikon is not in need. On the contrary.
If they do not fix it this time and for good, I will ask for a €2000 refund because this is just not acceptable.

So MAIS78, my advice is to wait. Wait until they solve these issues. If it takes a year or more, so be it.

lock

Of course Nikon is not going to officially acknowledge the problem, or what are they going to do with the cameras already manufactured, recall? They will secretly fix the problem and deal with the exiting units on a case by case basis.

Go into the Apple store and ask the top person in the store when the iPad 5 is coming out, or why they switched power plugs, or if they would confirm the rumor that the Apple TV is going away. They will tell you nothing. VW denied my '76 Rabbit had an oil problem for six months until I confronted them with the lemon law, and at that point they replaced all of the valve guides for no charge. Toyota had the same approach to rapid acceleration. And so on. Nothing new.

Canon probably does the same thing, so you can jump from the frying pan into the fire on the question of which product to buy...

BTW, all the dust on my sensors is from me...

You have identified a couple of situations where Canon acknowledged the issue, but also know that there are many that they have turned a cold shoulder to (1DX dust/oil issuess, 1DS III oil issues, 1D III oil issues, and 1D III focus issues to name a few)

There are two sides to every story, and here are some issues Nikon has acknowledged and rectified, as well as several other less notable ones (backpacks and Coolpix, for example):

http://en.nikon.ca/Service-And-Support/Service-Advisories/h0ndzaip/EN-EL15-Battery-Recall-Service-Advisory.html

http://en.nikon.ca/Service-And-Support/Service-Advisories/gezwvxil/D5000-Service-Advisory.html

http://en.nikon.ca/Service-And-Support/Service-Advisories/gezwvxix/EN-EL3-Battery-Recall.html

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2005/9/28/nikonadvisory

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2006/2/11/nikond200banding

To say there is no such thing happening at Nikon is contradicted by their long history of service advisories, including everything from Coolpix to the professional sports cameras. It appears that whenever they internally determine there to be an issue large enough to go public with, they do so, and have many times in the past.

The only takeaway here is that neither manufacturer is anywhere near perfect, and that with all the D600/D800 hysteria it's easy to forget both what Nikon has historically done as well as Canon (good and bad). Neither company has taken a flawless approach to quality control nor service, which is unfortunate, but to say that one is better than the other all the time is (again, unfortunately) not true.