D800 handheld hype nonesense - model shot handheld with 200/f2 at 1/30

I am only a small hobbyist, but if you dont mind me commenting, fantastic photos on your flickr.

Not only have you dispelled the nonsense on the handheld vs tripod, you also dispelled the myth that some write on various forums that 'old lenses dont match up to newer designs' or 'older lenses are not good enough for the newer high pixel density high res cameras like the D800' that I have seen posted on various occasions.

Yes, you use high end older lenses, but I dont think the 24mm f2 is all that expensive (compared to current anyway), but lovely photos.

Bottom line, you obviously know what you are doing and that is the key.

Thanks for sharing ..for enjoyment, to show your lovely photos and side benefit it confirmed in my mind what logic told me i.e. that the laws of physics have not changed in the last 50 years re light and refraction etc.

Thanks again, lovely work. Your photos set a high standard.

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.....Just from an amateur......''Sometimes it's to your advantage for people to think you're crazy.”

Looked through more of your photos on Flickr....amazing, lovely and one could keep going with adjectives. One could spend all day in there enjoying the work.

And you are very helpdul in that you put your technical details in the narrative. Thanks.

Would be nice in a photo book, images plus technical details for each.

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.....Just from an amateur......''Sometimes it's to your advantage for people to think you're crazy.”

Thanks for the reply. Yes to distill the other myths of can't use old lenses AND so therefore I guess, can't use old Russian lenses with a bad reputation see example here with a Arsat / Mir-26b (45mm/f3.5) on D800

www.flickr.com/photos/32681588@N03/8223777879

(and see my last thread also for another example.. just remembered!)

Cheers

http://www.facebook.com/Matthewosbornephotographycouk

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Matt (mattoz22)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/32681588@N03/

There is no question that it is possible.  I basically only shoot handheld.  Even for Magazine print.

That being said, I am finding D800 handheld is slightly harder on Photojournal and event particularly indoors.  What I am noticing is that if I was using the D700 indoors with the 24-70 f2.8 (200 shots) I  would have ZERO soft in the eyes shots.  But, on the D800 there always seems to be that one (at least).  Very irritating.  and sometimes I can clearly see where I have introduced motion blur by being too sloppy.

So, yes ...  if I am shooting a must have Money shot (with no second chances) ...  on the D800 my shutter speed is up (vs the D700/D3).  And talking to other PROs , it seems I am not alone.

It's not a deal breaker ,  but it is something that makes you more aware.

But, I do notice that my 70-200mm f2.8 VRII  seems to be less noticeable.  VR on or OFF.  It might be that I am just more aware, shooting long.

And during the day or even outside , zero issues.

Yes, I have shot many 200mm shots on the D800 at 1/30 ... but if I have one shot , and it means being paid or not ... I will try not to.

Just my experience with the D800,

HG

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http://tourist-of-light.blogspot.com/
Please feel free to criticize, make suggestions, and edit any of my photos & re-post, to help show me 'the way'. * I am trying to Elevate the Level of my 'Snap Shots'

Yes if the subjects are moving such as weddings I increase the shutter on the D700/D800 to ensure I 'freeze' their motion but I've not noticed needing to increase the D800 vs D700.  TBH when using both bodies for weddings with a mix of primes shooting/focusing manually I forget which body i'm using.  Maybe it's an AF issue on the D800..?

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Matt (mattoz22)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/32681588@N03/

Aloha Matt,

No doubt,  there is always that possibility.

And the fact that you just notice any slight misses more when you Zoom down. The difference between nailing it and a very slight miss is very noticeable  imho.

Don't have that Left AF issue.

but, every once in a while ... even using the Center AF.   (been whining about it for months now lol)

No really sure "what" it is  ...  but, on the D700 I shoot very sloppy on events and can get away with it.  (I still have both as well).

but, my D800 seems less forgiving.   And it could very well be the AF in low light.

Because inside  ...  it seems to have a slight "hesitation" just before the BEEP.  where I can immediately flip to the D700 and it's a Zip - BEEP.

and I only notice it inside.

HG

--
http://tourist-of-light.blogspot.com/
Please feel free to criticize, make suggestions, and edit any of my photos & re-post, to help show me 'the way'. * I am trying to Elevate the Level of my 'Snap Shots'

Hi, Lovely photos & gorgeous girls!! do you have any recommended settings for skin tones?

Excellent, really nice style, especially the underbrightened Katie red scarf series.

I am sure you are right, but only you can tell because iit's tough to differentiate a D800 from a phone camera when looking at daylight captures downsized to 1024 pixels on a side 

I don't do ..., but keep up the good work.

Looked through some your stuff. It looks like you spit on the lens and photographed from outside a house through a window with venetian blinds.
Anyway, the D800 camera is specifically designed for studio and landscape work where there will be no movement at all. And obviously, in that circumstance it would always make more sense to photograph with a tripod. The D800 has a frame-rate of several years ago. It's not meant for any kind of speed at all, but rather in a studio or outside in front of natural beauty where the photographer has all the time he wants to set up a shot.
When you take several minutes to take one single picture, you're going to find that handheld doesn't compare very well to that tripod, and then the camera should also be used with a remote shutter and live-view to obtain exact focus, and then mirror-up to omit the mirror-slap.
Now you can use a D800 anyway you see fit. It's a camera and it's yours, so enjoy it. But you're trying to use a D800 (a studio/landscape camera) like a D4 (a moving objects camera).

Your assertion that handheld is as good as a tripod doesn't even make any sense. You're not using the camera as it was intended. You're using it like it was a poorman's D4. Your conforming it to what you want it to be, but that doesn't make it a D4-Lite.
You don't need sharp lenses for models anyway. Especially after all the softening that happens to people's skin during post-processing. But yeah, if you want the trees WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY in the background of a landscape photograph to be as sharp as possible, then the very best glass possible is going to help you get that done.
None of this proper technique use is new of course, it's just that with the resolving power of a D800, a person can make a more significant difference between acceptably blurry and tack sharp. I'm certain that if you took pictures of a dead unmoving body as a model that you could get discernably sharper images if you took several minutes to set up your shot. But your models are alive and the methods of using the camera are worlds apart from one another. So your tripod would probably just get in the way of your work, but it's a neccessary tool for the kind of photography that camera was specifically designed to capture. The D800/D800e camera body is the best DSLR ever made for this work, and those who call themselves studio photographers are tethered to a computer and their camera is on a tripod, and those who call themselves landscape photographers have their camera on a tripod.
A D4 would work well for this studio/landscape work, but it was made for photojournalism, models, weddings, sports, etc. It would be somewhat wasted with its extreme frame-rate and intergrated battery grip. Just like there's really no good reason for you to have a 36MILLION PIXEL camera for something that will probably never be printed or only be printed on sheet sized papers; while a Landscape Photographer may be interested in printing out a panorama on 40" roll paper.

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There are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

and post more of your pictures more often.   They're beautiful, so well done.

Thanks.

The whole argument seems a little stupid.

Surely it's just a case of: You can zoom in more with the D800 than with a D700? So obviously a D800 image will show more motion blur at 100%, BUT this would be no more apparent at viewing size than any other camera. So it's not an issue?

If you keep the camera still, it'll give you more detail. Great for the pixel peepers, but irrelevant for people looking at a whole image.

BTW... OP, I like your pics.

Of course it's nonsense.  It's obvious to anyone with an ounce of intelligence.  Amusingly, anyone who bought in to that nonsense is unlikely to have the knowledge to make the most of the camera anyway.

Well there you go mattoz22, you're using the camera wrongly.

(nice pics btw)

BTW....first off, nice work. Don't let anything I am about to say take away from that.

You can get "acceptable" hand held shots from a D800. Especially when viewed at a smaller web size.

Does that mean you have gotten "as much as you can" or as much as the camera is able to deliver from your hand held shots. Probably not.

Sloppy or even reasonable technique with any camera will never get "the most" from ANY camera. I started to notice this when I jumped from 6 to 12MP. And that is when (as a landscape shooter) I invested in a very solid tripod and carried it everywhere I go.

I am sure my technique will need some minor tweaks to get the most of the D800 when I get it. To get my 40" x 60" prints to their best.

But if your shooting portraits that will NEVER see that size of a print, there is (as you have shown) some elbow room for reducing your "best shot practices" to get acceptable output from the camera and your customers.

Just dont fool yourself that your getting the best the camera can deliver like that, your just happy with the results you are getting. But were talking 95% vs. 100%, and splitting hairs in that 5%.

Roman

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The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious; It is the source of all true art and science.
~ Albert Einstein
http://www.commercialfineart.com/
http://www.pbase.com/romansphotos/

Well stated,

glo

Only because you're examining the D800 files at a much, much bigger size (i.e. 100%).

This is precisely the kind of complete misunderstanding that the OP was talking about.

When you compare between the D700 and D800 are you comparing at the same size

Or as John Motts says, are you viewing both at 100% and expecting them to be equivalent?

It is not 'specifically' designed for that at all. It is very good for those, but in essence it is a general purpose hand camera. A specifically designed studio and landscape camera would most likely have a quite different feature set, for instance built in body movements and much more sophisticated tethering arrangements.

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Bob