Is the d4 better at focusing than the d800?

From what I read, they both have the same autofocusing performance...

Both D3 and D700 had the same AF module and yet D3 acquired and tracked focus better. There is more than just the AF module that results in the final focus acquisition and tracking performance. However, I  can't definitively comment on AF performances of D4 vis-a-vis D800 as I have not handled D4 enough.

--
My Online Gallery - http://www.pbase.com/pradipta

Same AF sensor but no, not the same performnce. The D4 is much faster, which is expectable from a camera that is several times more expensive.

Have you conducted - or have a reference to - measurements to that effect, or is it just your general opinion?

I think it is enough to compare the manuals or test in shops with the same lens. No need for any scientific experiment or other proof. The D4 shoots faster, is intended more for sport shooters, where high frame rate with AF is important. I think that it is obvious that the D4 AF performance is not the same as the D800, but sure, for the same lens in single shots it may perform equally, though the D4 has also a more powerful battery, which normally also increase focus speed.

I agree. Also 1D MKIII and 1DS MKIII has the same AF module but much improved in 1D MKIII for fast response in 10fps shooting mode.

I don´t agree.

If you make sweeping statements like "D4 is much faster (at focussing)" you should be prepared to offer at least some evidence.

Many said, and still say, that the D3 was focussing faster than the D700, but IIRC Marianne Oelund showed long time ago conclusive tests to the contrary (while the D300 with the same AF module indeed was somewhat slower - not much but still).

Therre were certainly no evidence of the one being "much faster" than the other.

Hearsay die hard.

What other evidence you need? Compare the manual. One can do AF at 10fps the other at 5fps. Which is faster? How do you manage 10fps with the D800?

I don't know what she tested and how she did it. As far as I know, in AF-C the D3 should be faster, just like the D4 is faster than the D800.

10 fps is 100% more than 5 fps.

The manual and the specs are "hearsay"?

I would expect both to be equal in single frame AF, like I said before, even though I would expect some speed from the more powerful battery but no, the D800 is not a budget D4. Don't kid yourself.

Yes, Marianne made a lot of helpful tests and posted them in this forum.

Not only measured the AF speed also the very important AF accurancy. As I remember, the last one I've seen here was the one with the D3s. In a given average of a specific test she pointed out that the AF of the D3s was faster and more accurate then the AF of the D700, D3 and so on.

I am not sure if she also made the same test with the D4. I used also both cams (D4 & D800) side by side. In my experience the AF of the D4 vs D800 behaves the same as with the D3s vs D700. In practice this means that the AF of the D4 is a bit faster and more accurate. With accurate I mean, the D4 hits the target more at once with less re-focusing.

--
Nikon D4, AFS 16-35/4.0G, AFS 35mm/1.4G, AFS 24-70/2.8G, AFS 85mm/1.4G, AFS 105mm/2.8VR, AFS 70-200/2.8VRII, AFS 200/2.0VR, TC-1.4E II, TC-2.0E III, SB-800
Gitzo GT3541LS tripod with Markins M20, Gitzo GM3551 monopod with RRS MH-01 head

To be correct D800 has 4fps and D4 reaches 11fps with AF and AE lock.

OK. However, locking the AF doesn't actually improve AF performance, so the big question is what is the AF-C speed? Tracking a target is more interesting than locking the AF and taking a lot of OOF images at 11 frames per second rate.

Don´t play stupid!

This was about auto-focus speed, not frames per second.

And there is no Nikon manual that says that D4 focuses "much faster" than D800.

You made a sloppy statement without facts, just admit it and move on.

(As for Marianne Oelunds findings, DPR search won´t display threads older than 12 months so I can´t link to it).

I hate getting involved in a fight like this but this is just insane. I am a full time professional motorsport photographer. I spent hours aiming long lenses on both the D4 and D800 through holes in the fence above the safer-barrier at Indy this year shooting cars and groups of cars coming at me at 220+ mph. The D4 with the same lens, same settings (close as you can get) and same technique could follow focus and give me consistently focused shots in a burst from far to close. The D800 was hit and miss at best.

You can tell me that this is not scientific but I don't have time to shoot test charts and brick walls. I have to produce pictures. My technique is pretty decent and my knowledge of how to set up a camera is pretty OK too. My customer wants to see motion and read the decals at the same time. The D4 and D3 will do it. The D800 won't. I never used a D700 so I can't tell you.

From the IMS website, May 18, 2012 Photo by JohnCote

--
JohnCote www.johncotephotography.com 'Cameras are just cr@p we have to lug around because there is no direct brain to printer connection...yet!'

New search with other parameters got me to Mariannes contribution.

Read and weep.

This doesn´t of course settle the D4/D800 question, but it certainly cast som doubts on your ramblings.

Well, others have made similar "tests" and come to other conclusions. While the "hit-rate" might be a few percent better for the D4 the D800 is far better than your "hit and miss".

There was a thread with rather elaborate real-life tests to that effect a while ago here.

Your photo in the post doesn't work, but I looked trough some of your photos on your homepage and one stuck with me extra much, the ""Diner" from 2004 (cityscapes).

Is it possible to have a look at that somewhat larger?

Rolf,

I don't know you or what you use a camera for. You don't know me but a lot of what I use a camera for is extreme. Don't tell me that in the situation I described that the D800 is better than hit and miss until you come out and try it.

What is your agenda? Why to you need for the D800 to be something it is not. The D800 is a modern miracle....but it is what it is. Anyone who buys one primarily to shoot birds in flight or sports action etc is buying the wrong tool. Cameras are just tools. You don't pound nails with a screwdriver. The D4 has a different brain and who knows what else. It is a different tool.

--
JohnCote www.johncotephotography.com 'Cameras are just cr@p we have to lug around because there is no direct brain to printer connection...yet!'

Thanks for the kind words. Unfortunately my website has not been updated for years. I need to do that. The photo I tried to post was from the IMS online photo archives. Lets see if I can get the photo to show up a different way.

[img]http://ims.cdn.racersites.com/prod/photos/344042/FULL.jpg[/img]

http://ims.cdn.racersites.com/prod/photos/344042/FULL.jpg

--
JohnCote www.johncotephotography.com 'Cameras are just cr@p we have to lug around because there is no direct brain to printer connection...yet!'

I have never posted an image on this new version of DPR...

--
JohnCote www.johncotephotography.com 'Cameras are just cr@p we have to lug around because there is no direct brain to printer connection...yet!'

I have no agenda and I have no issue with what you discribe as your experience, I just point to the fact that some say other things. I don´t understand why that would be offensive to you.

Please don´t put words in my mouth, and above all don´t call me "Rolf".

Have a nice day

RAlf