D400/D8000 incoming...

Started Nov 27, 2012 | Discussions
JimPearce
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D400/D8000 incoming...
Nov 27, 2012

NR is cute here: first of all it's a possibility, then "the camera will...":

Nikon D300s/D7000 fusion

One of the possible scenarios is that in 2013 Nikon will merge the D7000 and  D300s product lines. There is a good chance that only one high end DX DSLR  camera will be announced (D400 or D8000?) that will replace both D7000 and D300s  models. The camera will have a "pro" body similar to the D300s and most likely  come with a 24MP sensor and 8fps. The D3200 and D5200 should  be sufficient to cover the entry level needs. The new DX camera will  be the "transition model" to the full frame category  (D600). Expected announcement: January/February 2013.

Read more on NikonRumors.com:  http://nikonrumors.com/#ixzz2DSkYkbj3

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Jim

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rdhphoto1
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Funny.....
In reply to JimPearce, Nov 27, 2012

......what a Canon 7D MKII rumor can get started.

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Kerry Pierce
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Re: D400/D8000 incoming...
In reply to JimPearce, Nov 27, 2012

hmmm, well, it doesn't make any more sense seeing that on NR than it does seeing it in a post here.  If Nikon is truly betting on the FX horse to win, instead of win/place/show, then they're backing a loser, IMO.  That's what they'd be doing by cutting out 1 of the top 2 DX models from their lineup.

Having the pro body and 8fps, how could they ever fill the price gap left by the d7k?  Well, they could dumb down the rest of the camera's features, essentially replacing the rest of the d300 feature list with the d7k feature list.  Wonderful....  I really don't want 39pt AF in place of the new Cam 3500....  So, they end up with a bunch of disappointed users on both ends of the spectrum.  D7k users aren't going to want to pay a lot more money for an upgrade.  D300 users aren't going to want to pay a lot of money for a downgrade....

On top of all that, they are going to add yet another, very expensive, FX camera?  All of this looks like the fast track to the bottom of the DSLR market share, unless they think the d3200 and d5200 are going to carry the lion's share of the market.

Sounds like rubbish to me, but we'll know soon enough.  Feb isn't that far off.

The good news is that the rumor mill seems to have turned on the lights and machines in the DX portion of the plant.  Perhaps more trustworthy news will be coming in the interim.

Kerry

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JimPearce
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Grumpy today Kerry?
In reply to Kerry Pierce, Nov 27, 2012

I see no mention of 39 point autofocus, nor do I see the point in making the camera 8 fps unless you can focus on a moving subject. Personally, I like the reference to a D300/s type body. I'm thinking $1599. I really don't get Nikon and Canon abandoning the D60/D7000 price points - but why should I care?

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Re: D400/D8000 incoming...I still think
In reply to JimPearce, Nov 27, 2012

D300 replacement for the sports and fast shooting, probably the 24MP.

The D7000 replacement for the high resolution, slow shooting and budget body....maybe even 36MP????

Akin to D4 vs D800 but APS-C version.

And as for timing, seems Nikon and Canon come hand in hand with offerings to the market, so that fits with Canon's own rumours.

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Reivilos
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Mmm...
In reply to JimPearce, Nov 27, 2012

Somehow the consolidation of all things DX under the Dxxxx denomination looks to me like something Nikon could actually do. But merging D7k and D300s successors into just one D8000 is harder to believe. The D7k is well-spec'd at its price point, they could keep that space occupied with D7100, and then expand upwards with D8000 which would fulfil the D400 role. Ooh well ...

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jonrobertp
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Re: Mmm...
In reply to Reivilos, Nov 27, 2012

I'd welcome the merger of the 2 lines.  And Feb does seem logical. And yes, tis but someone's imagination.  But it could happen.  lol.

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Kerry Pierce
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Re: Grumpy today Kerry? Nope. :)
In reply to JimPearce, Nov 27, 2012

JimPearce wrote:

I see no mention of 39 point autofocus, nor do I see the point in making the camera 8 fps unless you can focus on a moving subject. Personally, I like the reference to a D300/s type body. I'm thinking $1599. I really don't get Nikon and Canon abandoning the D60/D7000 price points - but why should I care?

I can't say why you should care. I care, because I think that it's important to Nikon's future success.  I want to see them succeed and prosper, with both formats. Abandoning either the Dx00 or the Dx000 models, while increasing the number of FX models, doesn't seem to me to be a smart thing to do, unless they want to go the way of Leica.

Kerry

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jonrobertp
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AF news re:39 pt system--
In reply to Kerry Pierce, Nov 28, 2012

Shot w my D7k for 2 yrs, and recently changed my shooting to this...and it works better in low light with more keepers.

Select AF-A.   Then go to 9 central af sensors only...they are the cross sensors.  AF-A is important cause it grabs the scene better than C.  And this arrangement is not available in S mode.

I've shot lots of pro events in very low light...and this works better.  For a relatively cheap cam .

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ralittle2
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Re: Mmm...
In reply to jonrobertp, Nov 28, 2012

jonrobertp wrote:

I'd welcome the merger of the 2 lines.

Why do folks think a merger of the two lines is necessary?  It seems to be an easy way to give away market share.  It's also not very expensive to produce both a D7000 & a D300s successor.  The chips exist as do the bodies.

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jfriend00
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Re: Mmm...
In reply to ralittle2, Nov 28, 2012

ralittle2 wrote:

jonrobertp wrote:

I'd welcome the merger of the 2 lines.

Why do folks think a merger of the two lines is necessary? It seems to be an easy way to give away market share. It's also not very expensive to produce both a D7000 & a D300s successor. The chips exist as do the bodies.

I agree.   Multiple models help a manufacturer compete more effectively vs competitors and allow customers to go up the price curve as much as they want without feeling like they are forced into a compromise they don't want.

I believe Nikon would/could make more money with two separate cameras, one at the D7000 price point and one at the D300 price point.

The reasons not to make multiple models are really only when the market isn't interested or the cost of producing the multiple models is more than the incremental revenue they would bring in.

In this case, there seems like very clear distinctions between what two camps of people want:

D7100 camp:

  • $1199 MSRP that drops down to $999 once it's been in the market awhile ($999 is an important psychological price level)
  • Smaller body style
  • Best features Nikon can offer at this price level with distinguishing features from D5200
  • This is a high-end "value" camera.  Good bang-for-the-buck for action shooting (very competent AF and fps), but not the best Nikon can offer
D400 camp:
  • Willing to pay for best AF and fps Nikon can offer for under $2000
  • Wants all pro-style controls and ergonomics (such as AF-ON)
  • May want or appreciate larger body style

If Nikon tries to put these two separate desires into one single camera, they would have several scenarios.

Scenario #1: If they simply drop the D400 needs and come out only with a D7100 at around the D7000 price point and with an expected evolution of D7000-like features, then they give up a segment of the market and the opportunity to sell a more expensive camera to a segment of the market.  Some portion of the D400 camp ultimately begrudingly buys some other camera and feels a bit betrayed by Nikon, some portion buys nothing in this camera generation (not good for Nikon) and some portion goes to a competitor over time that better serves their needs (really not good for Nikon).

Scenario #2: Make a single combo camera where the D7100 inherits some (but not all) of the D300 and desired D400 capabilities and the price of the D7100 rises a few hundred dollars.  This would be a compromise between the two camps.  It wouldn't be a true upgrade to the D300 so it wouldn't capture all of that segment.  And, it would cost more than the D7000, but move upscale in features/capabilities.  The challenge here is that Nikon would be giving up on the very successful D7000 price point.  If Nikon really intended to do this, I think we would have seen the D5200 go more upscale in price than it did (it only went up $50 in Europe) to better fit in the gap between D3200 and the higher price point of the D7100.  Nikon would also be abandoning the opportunity with folks who were willing to pay more for a real D400.

Scenario #3: Make a single small body camera that covers all D7100 and D400 features except the body style and external control features that don't fit on the smaller body.  If this is truly a full upgrade to the D300 except the body style, then probably most D400 desirers will buy this and be happy.  If Nikon can also do this with at least 8fps and top of the line AF (key D400 features) and keep the general D7000 price level, then this is probably a win for nearly everyone.  But, if putting the desired D400 features into this camera pushes the D7100 price up several hundred dollars, then Nikon probably loses some overall sales by missing out on the important ~$1000 price level and creating a pretty big price gap between the D5200 and D7100.  Existing D7000 users are probably willing to move up to the D7100 (small increment for them), but many fewer people from lower price levels will move up to the higher level (the whole reason that companies offer more models at more prices).

Scenario #4: Make a single large body camera (a D400) and there's no direct successor to the D7000).  This seems the least likely since the D7000 is a very successful camera at a very important price point.  While D400 desirers would be fine with this scenario, this ignores a bit and important segment for Nikon around $1000.  It seems very unlikely Nikon would do this.

So, to summarize, #1 abandons the D400 market segment.  #2 combines the two with a compromise for both audiences (higher price for the D7xxx segment, missing features for D400 segment).  #3 would mostly work if possible at the D7000 price level, but that seems unlikely because the features of a D400 (top AF, 8+fps, etc...) cost money.  #4 abandons the D7xxx market segment which seems even dumber than #1.

None of these seem compatible with Nikon's desire to become #1 in worldwide dSLR sales (because they give up segments of the market that they once owned).

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JimPearce
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It seems likely that both Canon and Nikon will merge their top two DX cameras...
In reply to ralittle2, Nov 28, 2012

I think they tend to watch each other and ignore other competition.

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Kris in CT
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Re: D400/D8000 incoming...
In reply to JimPearce, Nov 28, 2012

Sounds like I'm a prophet as I posted this a little over three months ago...  http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/42262883

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jfriend00
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Re: D400/D8000 incoming...
In reply to Kris in CT, Nov 28, 2012

Kris in CT wrote:

Sounds like I'm a prophet as I posted this a little over three months ago...  http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/42262883

Do you think the already-announced D5200 is a merge of the D5100 and D7000 (which is what your post was about)?

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seahawk
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Re: Mmm...
In reply to Reivilos, Nov 28, 2012

Just how do you fit a D7X00 and a D400 between the D5200 and the D600?

The rumor suggests that Nikon has taken the higher level solution to merge the cameras, with most of the new camera coming from the D300, so I am happy with that, because at 1600$ that would be a stunning camera and will be more interesting than a slighty beefed up D5200 at 1100 or a D400 at 1899$.

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WalterF
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Re: D400/D8000 incoming...
In reply to JimPearce, Nov 28, 2012

Makes not much sense, because Canon will have 70D and 7DII cameras. And there is a lot of room for both D7100 and D400:

D7100 over D5200:

  • AF motor
  • AI metering
  • Better UI and feature set from D7000/D600
  • 6-7 fps
  • Weather sealing
  • Two card slots
  • WiFi built in

D400 over D7100:

  • Pro level UI and feature set from D300/D800
  • CAM 3500
  • 10 fps
  • Pro level construction and durability
  • 2x crop mode
  • WiFi and GPS

Regards,
Walter

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seahawk
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Re: D400/D8000 incoming...
In reply to WalterF, Nov 28, 2012

Canon Rumors has openely said that there is a chance the 7D and 60D will be replaced by one new camera.

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WalterF
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Re: D400/D8000 incoming...
In reply to seahawk, Nov 28, 2012

seahawk wrote:

Canon Rumors has openely said that there is a chance the 7D and 60D will be replaced by one new camera.

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hobby aviation photographer

For my use a D7100 with D7000 UI and features, CAM 3500 and 8fps is perfect.

But as others mention it seems to risky for Nikon to give up pro level DX. As shown above there is enough room for two cameras.

Walter

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ForeignerOnEarth
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Re: Mmm...
In reply to jfriend00, Nov 28, 2012

Perfect text, I totally agree.

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Wyville
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Depressing
In reply to rdhphoto1, Nov 28, 2012

rdhphoto1 wrote:

......what a Canon 7D MKII rumor can get started.

The rumors have been around for years. I have no idea what Canon and Nikon are thinking, but they don't seem to be taking the high-end DX market seriously anymore.

When I bought my 7D, it was a tough choice between that and the D300s that was just released at the time. I thought the D300s would be a bridge until the D400 came along... Well so much for Nikon. After two years with the 7D I thought Canon had proven the popularity of the segment and the 7DmkII was just around the corner... Well so much for Canon.

Now I'm actually contemplating a second hand 1DmkIV as an upgrade for my 7D, but that would be complete overkill. A €/$2,000 high-end APS-C camera makes so much sense for amateur wildlife photographers. I would choose that over a D600/6D in a heartbeat.

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