Sony F43 vs F58 Flash

I bought a Sony F43 flash almost a month ago. I love it.

I have been doing a lot of bouncing off the ceiling and I have run out of power a few times. Yesterday, I was at my father-in-law's for Thanksgiving and he has a higher ceiling. I ran out of power a little more often.

I am thinking of sending the F43 back and getting an F58 for the additional power. Are there ANY downsides to the F58 relative to the F43?

I need to do this in the next few days before my 30 days are up. Any responses are appreciated.

With out a doubt, get the HVL-58 am.. I have two of them... here is the reason.. and you have already experienced it..

Its always better to have more than you need sometime, than it is to have less than you need sometime.

You have already posted your disappointment in coming up a bit short, power wise... correct that problem now while it hasn't cost you anything. There is no down side other than the cost difference, but when spread out over ten years is a trivial matter.

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Bill aka EO

Somewhat off-topic... I hope you realize how lucky you are. Here in Switzerland, you would have a very hard time (close to impossible) sending it back "just because you feel like it". There is no such thing here

I also have a F43 and I like it very much. I am thinking of getting the new F60, because it is wheatersealed, and that is something I like on the F43. Unfortunately, when shooting a wedding, both the F43 and an older HS5600 overheated fairly quickly. I heard the same about the F58 and hope that the F60 will do better.

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Visit my photos on Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/zurb69

Ive owned two HVL-58 for 5 years.. niether of them has ever over heated on me. Ive taken as many as 800 shots in one day using an 8 battery external battery pack and constanly crank out three or four frames ( at 12 FPS ) all perfectly exposed with no overheating.

The problem with the F60 while slightly stronger than the 58, requires an adapter on anything but the A99.

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Bill aka EO

How about the F58 being bigger and heavier?

BTW, have you thought about buying a diffuser for the flash rather than bouncing the light? A diffuser will give you more consistent results as you don't have to worry about the height of the ceiling or the color of it.

Yes, it is convenient. I only buy from places that let me return things if I don't like them. Usually the time is two to four weeks. I don't abuse it.

The thing that has changed over the years in America is that years ago, you could go to a local camera shop and see different flashes, lenses, etc. Now you must buy everything mail order, unless you are buying common (lower cost) items that are carried at Best Buy.

But they have made mail order as convenient as possible lately.

Thanks for your response.

No. I hadn't considered a diffuser. Can you recommend any? I am interested in seeing what one can do, but unfortunately my 30 day clock is almost spent. If I can order one tonight and expedite shipping, I have just barely enough time to try it out before my 30 day clock expires.

What I might have to do is spend the extra money for the F58, and then investigate a diffuser for it. Bouncing is not the perfect solution, either.

Yeah. I am not looking forward to bigger and heavier, but it has been disappointing the few times that I "almost" had enough power, but not quite. I am sure I will run into many situations where the F58 does not have enough power either, when bouncing.

Thanks for the suggestion

Just do a Google search for 'flash diffuser', and you'll see many different types available. Most of the websites for the various diffusers will show you examples of the results. I use a couple of different diffusers- the tried and true Sto-fen and  two different LumiQuest models. And, I see a picture of someone's homemade diffuser using a cut-up Styrofoam cup.

There is no doubt that more power is better.. the problem I see is that a diffuser on an already under powered flash, ( OP's own admission ) will only decrease the output.  While a diffuser will make the flash softer, it will also decrease the lumens. Now, Ideally  you can use a diffuser on a 58 and get softer and more pleasing light, and still be more  powerful than the  light from a 43.

Here is a perfect example of output... go to home depot... look at a 100 watt bulb. read the specs.

look at a clear bulb and look at a frosted bulb... while both bulbs demand 100 watts @ 120 V they both  draw 0.8 amps. But the clear bulb yields more lumens than the frosted Bulb... the frosted bulb is like using a diffuser, it limits it output in favor of a softer more pleasing light, but could possibly not be enough light to illuminate the subject properly.

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Bill aka EO

I used consider have a somewhat negative general attitude toward the idea of buying something and then returning it cause I decided I didn't like it, and refused to so that. Until I was trying to decide if I wanted to buy an A77. I went to the local Sony store and asked if they had any, no, but they recommended I buy one online and try it out, if I didn't like it I could return it.

The stores certainly take a bit of a loss doing this every time something is returned, but I'm sure that's more than made up for in the additional sales for a place like Amazon.com, where you that's the only way to see the item to decide if you really like it.  Going into a place like Best Buy in the US and ask for something they don't have in stock, and that's there answer (buy it online and return it if you don't like it, and they don't stock a lot of higher end equipment, especially not Sony).

But, on the f43 vs. f58, I've only have an f42, so I can't really be much help. But I did remember seeing specs that the f43 is weather sealed, and the f58 it not (if I remember correctly). And I've seen the F58 used once, and it has this big hinge thing on it to swivel, for switching from portrait to landscape when turning the camera, and keeping the flash pointed up to bounce off the ceiling. It certainly looked pretty darn cool (I'm assuming the f43, like the f42 doesn't have that, sure, it can be swiveled around, but no where near as easily).

Although the power output of the F58 is somehow higher and therefore good for the long reach, it may be possible to do it with higher camera ISO as well and if you shoot manual in close-ups as I frequently do I rather prefer the F43 as you can cut off the power to 1/128 when the F58 is limited to 1/32. In other words to get the same low output from both you need to move the F58 way back, which for me isn't comfortable and practical in many occasions.

Regards,

Gilberto

Well, I use both an F43 and an F58. The F43 is my general travel flash being a little smaller and lighter. I use the F58 when I anticipate the need for more power--i.e., longer distances, larger rooms, darker or higher ceilings, larger groups, etc. Combining the two with wireless flash makes for a quick and dirty two-flash system. The F43's weather-sealing has never been a significant factor for my shooting.

I must say that I cannot ever recall running out of power with the F43. In part, that's probably because I anticipate when a more powerful flash might be needed. But it's also a function of what apertures and ISO settings one uses. For indoor flash, I generally shoot at f/4-f/5.6 and at ISO 400 (or sometimes ISO 800 for longer distances or darker rooms).  This is for general shooting, of course.  Portraits are another matter, and I use a Sigma ring flash for macro work.

I can only recall my F58 overheating once. Like Bill, I use an 8-battery flash pack for faster recycling when I expect to be taking a lot of shots in rapid succession. Note that the F58 has a terminal for connecting a battery pack, while the F43 does not. So that's a possible reason for choosing the F58 over the F43.

With regard to diffusers, there are many to choose from with more being introduced every month. As Bill has pointed out, they will soften the light and reduce shadows (within a certain distance range), but they also reduce flash power anywhere from a stop to more than 3 stops, depending on the particular diffuser. I use the Lumiquest Pro-Max System and also a Lumiquest Softbox, depending on the situation. The Pro-Max System has inserts to use with high or dark ceilings.

For reviews and ratings of various flash diffusers, see:

http://photo-tips-online.com/review/best-flash-diffuser/

The F43's flash head rotates the same way for portrait shots that the F58 does.

I suggest the 60 over the 58. Yes it needs the supplied adapter but this is solid and works well.

The 58 has some intensity issues, some shots are not properly measured by the 58 and exposures can occasionally be very off.

Also the 60 has some LED's for lighting in video situations (or perhaps just constant fill light for photos) and the menu/control screen is so much better. It also comes with a diffuser cap.

So for bouncing and power usage, either way, if you rely on it then you may be using more power than required. Using the built-in flash card or perhaps third party soft-box may allow you to avoid needing to bounce, which is not always possible.

You could also use your 43 in a a soft-box and stand for secondary fill lighting using the wireless sync from the camera or the primary flash as master/slave.

If this is happening more for you then also consider an external batter pack, I got myself a PB820 Flash Power Battery from ebay for $120, complete unit with battery and cable. Lasts longer and recharges the flash quickly like fresh batteries for ages, and helps with overheating issues.

I have both of these, and for MY needs, I actually like the 43 more... It might just be MY copy of the 58, but the 43 seems more consistent.  I also like the fact that you can lower the power (of the 43) all the way down to 1/128 power vs the the 58's 1/32.  In addition, the 43 (in manual mode) can also be controlled in increments of 1/3 stops.  If you don't ever use the flash in manual mode, then this advantage isn't a factor to you.  The weather sealed construction is a nice plus too, however, I don't know if the occasion will ever arise when I need a flashgun AND be somewhere where the weather sealed advantage comes in handy.

As for the overheating issue... it can be reduced by upping the ISO... depending on what Alpha body you have, this may or may not be a good idea with noise control.  Another way is to simply have extra batteries.  Swap out the batteries when you start to feel excessive heat on the flash.  It's the batteries that get hot and causes the overheating.  I, personally prefer rechargeable batteries and they are cheap these days (I get them from Costco).

In the old days, in the prehistoric days of film, I would use an index (file) card, bend it at a 45 degree angle and using rubber bands wrapped around the flash head, insert the card in-between the flash and rubber bands with the white side of the card facing forward. Then I would tilt the flash head so it pointed upward. The card would diffuse the light somewhat, softening the shadows.

In those long forgotten days it would cost me less than five cents to make this diffuser. With inflation, I would imagine that it would cost about 3-5 pennies today.

Thank you all for your responses. I am going to keep the F43 and then after a decent interval (wife considerations), I will buy a used F58. There are two at B&H right now, one for $400 and one for $420. I am sure there will be more in the future.

Then I can use either on camera and also experiment with a two flash setup.

After doing brief research online as suggested by you, I think one of those small portable soft-boxes looks interesting for diffusing the light. I think it might be a bit much for on the camera.

One thing I still have a question about.....it is not clear from the things I have read if you can tilt the F58 backward 30 degrees like you can with the F43. I have used that a few times. Can anyone confirm?

Thanks, again!

Yes, it tilts backwards like the F43.

Here's the manual.....might be helpful for other questions you may have about the F58.

http://www.docs.sony.com/release/HVLF58AM.pdf

Sony HVL-58-am

• Flash Modes : Control: Bounce angles: Upward - 90 degrees; Downward - minus 10 degrees;; Left/ Right (Front/Back) - 180 degrees;Automatic Light Control
• Flash Coverage : GN58 = up to 58 meters (190 ft) at ISO100 with 105mm lens

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Bill aka EO

A bounce card is built-in to the F43AM.