Does anyone else find many of these posts banal?

I have been a member of this forum for several years and like to think that during this time I have contributed a couple of mildly worthwhile posts.  I have in the past certainly forged some great on-line relationships and gained serious learning about all manner of photographic topics.

I would never be so offensive as to single out any particular post for criticism but trawling through the latest contributions, they strike me in general as being so banal it is untrue!  I am not convinced that most of the contributors even own a DSLR, let alone can differentiate their aperture from their shutter speed yet they seem to know it all!

I have no problem with photographers who are still at the learning stage participating in the forum – this is what the forum should be all about – learning.  Even the most experienced still have need of this.

I am bored though by inexperienced members pontificating about what Nikon should or should not do and opining about how bad their cameras are etc etc.  Worse still, others post images in the mistaken belief that they are great – in all probability they are just trying to get their website visitor numbers up.  Others make comments so vitriolic that they are clearly not photographers but psychopaths!

Each to their own, and we are all entitled to make our comments. I have owned Nikon DSLRs from D70 and D200 through D3S and D3X to my current line-up of three latest and greatest Nikon bodies with oodles of pro lenses.  I mostly shoot sport, so need the higher tech more than in any other genre.  I am proud to have sold one image for several thousand pounds.  It was taken years ago on my D70 with kit lens.  All my subsequent investments have not resulted in a better image or a more lucrative sale.  Had I known then what I know now, my successful image would in fact have been a lot better and much of my subsequent learning was gleaned from this forum.

Maybe I am reviewing a “bad week” but I can see few posts from which any aspiring photographer could learn anything, apart perhaps from the fact that there are a lot of opinionated plonkers out there who clearly know nothing!  I do exclude my old pen friends and others who contribute in good spirit. Is there somewhere else that we can correspond, share and support each other, since I fear there is little of interest to me on this forum? Perhaps DP Review could introduce an exclusive forum that requires submission of images of a certain standard before membership is permitted or that members can be voted-in by their peers?

For instance, I was an early adopter of two D4s and a D800E.  Yes, there were minor teething troubles that manifested themselves at settings few us ever want to use in practice but always want to test at!.  I talked these through with my local Nikon guys who acknowledged the issues and assured me they would be resolved.  Should the problems have been there at all?  No, but this is the risk of early adoption of high tech kit.  Did I feel the need to chuck £15k of brand new bodies back at Nikon for a refund?  No I did not.  Had I relied on info from DP Review posts, Nikon would be in the High Court by now!  The reality is that there were some minor issues that were quickly acknowledged and speedily addressed.  Had I been in a forum of like-minded sensible photographers I could have related my experience and perhaps calmed some worries of prospective purchasers.  As it was, I felt that I simply did not want to participate in the slanging match about focus problems that dominated this forum a few months back, mainly because the most opinionated contributors did not even own one of these bodies and from what I could see were never likely to in the future.

Am I alone in my opinion of the posts I see on the majority of this forum tonight?  Is the mediocrity the fault of DP Review, who provide a free-to-join forum with pretty effective functionality?  Or is this the fault of the forum's membership, who seem disinclined to self-moderate?

Until I joined this forum, I had thought all photographers a pretty friendly and collaborative bunch.  Having worked for several years at events such as Wimbledon tennis etc, which is shot by some pretty hardened press photographers, I remain of the same opinion.  It is only when I read this forum that I have my doubts but perhaps some contributors are not truly photographers..............?  I show my web site details below as credentials to comment - many other do also.  It is those who do not that are generally the most opinionated.

--

Regards

Deegee FRPS

www.duncangrove.com

www.duncangroveblog.com

Q:- What's the difference between artists and photographers?

A:- Two artists can have a conversation without discussing their paintbrushes!

HI!

Basically agree with what you've said and have some of the same questions.

(BTW, Excellent photography on your website)

I also tend to make my photos available  as a way for forum members to judge my comments...if you don't like my photos, probably best not to listen to what I have to say!

If you want to see a DPReview forum that's really gone to hell, look at the "Off topic" forum:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/1057

RB

--
http://www.dpreview.com/members/2305099006/challenges
http://www.pbase.com/rbfresno/profile

You are not wrong and are basically hitting the nail on the head.

This is why many pros/valued members have left or are just spending less time here. So the inmates run the asylum.

I started photography in 2005 and have learned a lot here in my first few years of shooting. Went pro full time in 2008 and have had less of a need to start threads. So I try and chime in here or there but it's almost becoming pointless. Dozens post rudely and put people down anonymously with no images to back up their arrogant words. You'll learn quick who to ignore.

There are better places for beginners to ask/learn than here.

It's become more for entertainment and amusement than anything else for me. At least that has it's own intrinsic value I guess...

--
http://www.ricmarderimagery.com

Its really hard to have people self disipline themselves by being respectful to other people on this forum.  A lot of the dis respectful comments would not be made in person because there would be consequences.  I am here to contribute out of my past photographic experiences and do present some images for comments.  I do not learn from worthless comments that have no content and are very personal and disrespectful.  I have taken a time out at times just to get away from this type of behavior.  I do know several really excellant photographers that avoid this forum and in turn this forum has lost a lot of very knowledgable people.  Its a shame.

Larry

I dont' and never have had a problem with questions from those less familiar with the craft.

It interesting seeing people hiding behind the shield of anonymity. Saying things that in person would get their noses dented. Then they don't even have the cojones to show their own work and even back up their attitude with some idea that they know what they are talking about.

As for less than intriguing posts....thats gonna happen, it is a place to ask just about anything.

I guess people treating each other decently have gone the way of the do-do and with anonymity as a shield....and consequences being very small....small bursts of being a sociopath come out in those too weak to control it.

You know we could update the definition of character to be...."What you do on the internet even though you have no consequences."

Be good to each other...

Roman

--
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious; It is the source of all true art and science.
~ Albert Einstein
http://www.commercialfineart.com/
http://www.pbase.com/romansphotos/

It has been disappointing, lately. Not much wheat for all the chaff. I drop into other forums occasionally, but don't find enough to keep me.

I think dpreview's lack of moderators is part of the problem. Since angry exchanges go unmoderated, this forum tends to attract more sociopaths. However, there are still some good people here, and I continue to learn things.

Most annoying of late are the continous rants about how the limits of technology are unacceptable. Nikon is somehow guilty of serious crimes if it can't guarantee a novice a perfect picture 100% of the time when shooting at f/1.4 with the extreme PDAF points, or the break-in period requires some maintenace (cleaning the sensor).

In 2011, a camera producing the image quality and resolution of a D800 would cost $10,000 to $30,000. Nikon does this for $3,000. So, what do we see? Rants about how horrible it is that this extremely expensive $3,000 camera is unacceptably flawed because it has limitations.

I don't agree with your idea of having to submit a photo to be juried before one could post on the forum. I think it should be open to novices, as well. The restriction should be that before one can complain about a camera's limitation they must be able to show how they can do a better job with a 4x5 film camera. sports and event shooters could use a Speed Graphic, others would be required to use a view camera.

--
Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html

People getting "fed up" and going off on long dissertations about how great it was in the old days and how terrible things are going now. At least one per month.

I'm not saying any of what you're saying is incorrect, because I often feel the same way, just noting that while writing it all down may have made you feel better, it will do little to improve the tone and mood around these parts.

This forum is changing (has changed) now that a lower level camera (D600) adds the folks that before more or less stayed in the DX forums, where things went south some time ago. In general, these forums also reflect the polarized and antagozining posture of our societies at large, so let's not be surprised when people "dare" to be particularly rude while in the safety of faceless, keyboard-enabled conversations.

In short, not much we can do about it, other than try to improve the average with good, meaningful posts.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://imagesbyeduardo.com/blog1/banner4.png
Home page: http://imagesbyeduardo.com
Story-telling: http://imagesbyeduardo.com/main/wedding-photography-los-angeles-story-telling/

No you are not alone. Sadly I have to agree with most of what you say but I'm afraid it has all been said before, maybe on a monthly basis but nothng seems to change, there is no one listening. You can't really blame the forum's membership for lack of self moderation because they appear to have no influence on the owners. We have endlessly requested proper moderation and on the one occasion that they actually invited people to show an interest in being one I wrote in. Apart from a couple of, 'hang in there, we'll be right back' e-mails I've heard nothing and it's obviously been dropped.

There are still, on rare occasions, threads that are interesting and useful and I stay for those but its becoming harder to justify. The trouble is where else do you go. I have joined other sites which operate on a more rarified level but the arrogance and rudeness are still there waiting for the right underdog to try them out on. The only really friendly sites I have been to unfortunately seem to invoke God more than I want in a photographic discussion and they are allways praying for each other etc.

Could we just go back 10 years?

I think the real problem is that the D600/800/E has flooded the forum. Maybe it's time to split the forum into D600/800/E and D1-D4 rather then just a DX forum and an FX forum.

I think the real problem is that the D600/800/E has flooded the forum. Maybe it's time to split the forum into D600/800/E and D1-D4 rather then just a DX forum and an FX forum.

What purpose does this thread serve? It's just adding to what makes this forum such a disaster.  If you want things to improve, make useful threads rather than whining.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/50159645

I see more disparity between the D600 people and the D800/E people than between D4 and D800E. However, there is quite a bit of crossover. There are experienced pros using all models, and there complete novices using D3 and D4 models.

You could probably clean the forum up considerably by excluding people who don't have any Nikon FX body.

--
Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html

I have no data to back this up, but I sense because the digital age has made photography more accessible more and more people have been getting into photography.The baby boomers now cresting into their retirement years turning to photography as a hobby are probably also swelling the ranks -and they have money to spend. The result of this and the dropping prices of FF cams have landed more people than ever..well here in this forum ..with FF cams!!

I think what you may be seeing in here is just a normal result of lots more people with limited knowledge and skill venting that reality in their posts...and ya some do it with attitude.

I personally only use photography for reference purposes in my work - only one short step away from a hobbiest. I am sure some of my postings in here have been less than scintillating for a pro to read..possibly annoying. I guess the best clueless & much less than pro shooters here (as myself) can do, is be careful to clothe their cluelessness with at least the robe of humility and thankfulness.

all the best

g

http://skylightvistas.weebly.com/index.html

+1

Scary, I didn't know there was an Off-topic forum.

It seemed to me there wouldn't be any need for such a forum...

Sorry to say. There are a lot places out there where exactly that kind of people come together and show off their work. Why bother and complain about dpreview ? dpreview is a website designed for making money. That is the sole purpose. The more people come the more clicks dpreview gets. And clicks = money.

You want some areas of serious photography ?

http://www.f11magazine.com/site/index.html

http://www.revolutionartmagazine.com/

http://www.c-heads.com/

http://www.bastardmagazine.de/

http://www.burnmagazine.org/

http://www.blur-magazine.com/

I think this problem existed before the D600/800 ever existed, it's not so much a matter of camera body or skill but of the personality of the person using it. Although it hasn't been that long for me, when I first came on here neither camera existed and much of the attitude was still the same. As it being more prevalent on the DX forums, I don't think that's so either, my first impression of this forum was that it was more argumentative, with larger egos and people trying to prove they were right. Real moderation would help, the forum bullies and pros wouldn't run the place and there could be some real discussion, and perhaps some of the whining about gear that goes on and on could be moderated out.

The idea of having a forum for those with better talent where you'd have to prove your worth just doesn't seem like it would get a lot of attention. Part of the enjoyment is helping out those wanting to learn. It's just a shame people couldn't treat each other like they would in a public meeting, it's one of the reasons I've backed away from here, and found other places to go, as well as spending less time online. I prefer to discuss photography, learn something I've missed, or make new friends. Not have to keep constantly having to defend myself or my pictures from the dimwit of the week.

“The irony of the Information Age is that it has given new respectability to uninformed opinion.”

–Veteran reporter John Lawton, 68, speaking to the American Association of Broadcast Journalists in 1995

--
UK wedding photographer in the Lake District
http://www.johnleech-weddingphotography.co.uk
For my landscapes and fine art photography:
http://www.johnleechstudio.co.uk

I'm not sorry to say to you that you are wrong. The fact that dpreview shareholders want money and the fact that the discussion here is spoiled by hostile members (your post clearly tells me that you also wish to be considered as one) have nothing to do with each other.

Dpreview was started by Phil Askey out of love for the new medium. The site was acquired so as to make more money because moneymakers saw an opportunity. Two things.

--
regards
Janne Mankila, Finland