An engineer friend of mine asked, "Why does Nikon use grease to lubricate?"

When discussing D600, a friend of mine who is an engineer, found it strange that the camera would splatter oil at all.  He was a little befuddled that Nikon would grease at all to lubricate when there are other, safer lubricants out there.  He also said if you do use grease, it should be in a shielded system away from sensitive parts and so the grease will last the life of the part.  With grease splattering, this means that eventually all the grease will be gone and the area will need to be regreased at some point.

Not saying this to bring up the oil/dust issue.  I just thought he made an interesting point from a non-nikon person.

Is Nikon using old manufacturing techniques or is there a specific purpose to use grease?

Bryan

http://www.listentothewindmedia.com

Yes, even wheel bearings on a car are sealed so that the grease will not be lost with the wheels turning.  It seems if there is a pivot for the mirror that it would be sealed so that grease or oil could not escape.

Larry

If I may ask, your friend is an engineer in which field?

--
Patco
A photograph is more than a bunch of pixels

Nikon has been building cameras for so long now that I'm guessing they know exactly what works best, and has reasons for everything they do.  They also have access to all the competition's cameras (which also get dust & oil on the sensor from time to time) so I'm inclined to believe there isn't some amazing new way of doing things.

I would have thought "self-lubricating" parts would be more appropriate for sensitive areas (ie near the sensor, in the mirror box).

Some references:

http://www.reliableplant.com/Read/12499/self-lubricating-bearings

http://youtu.be/MdyS4In4zuU

My feeling is that no one around here is capable of second guessing Nikon engineers who are producing the most technically able cameras for a mass market that exist today. There could be hundreds of reasons for their choice of lubricating system but I'll throw in a factors.

Cost. Matters everywhere.

Weight. Fast moving parts need minimum weight. A sealing system is going to add weight.

Viscosity. Timed parts need predictable, controlled resistance.

Operating temperature range. Self lubricating systems may have a problem in fine tolerance use. Who knows? Nikon most likely.

I believe that poor QA is most likely Nikon's problem, not any deficiencies in the engineering labs. Having worked in MIL standard semiconductor QA I know only too well the amazing range of creativity the manufacturing floor can deploy in screwing up the product 

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Brian
Fine Art Print sales of the Isle of Skye at:
http://www.eyeofskye.co.uk/

+1. I second that from many years in civilian semiconductor design + manufacturing.

Leo

Does that matter...he is an ENGINEER. Are you questioning that FACT;-)

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Mikael

Of course it matters.  No one is disputing the fact that he is an engineer.

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Mike Dawson

There are many different types of Engineers, each has a specality such as a Civil Eng., Electrical Eng. or maybe a Mechanical Eng..  The fact remains that a camera should not be throwing oil unto the sensor requiring cleaning over and over.  My d700 didn't, my d3s didn't and now my d4 isn't.

Larry

TOOT TOOT !!

I don't think I put too much confidence into an analysis of a camera by the Army Corps of Engineers, nor by some guy driving a train.

Nobody here knows the details of the oil splatter in the D800 and D600. We don't know if it is really oil, silicone lubricant, or something else. We don't know where it is coming from, nor what engineering decisions resulted in the current design.

One thing we do know is that the estimated shutter life went from 150K on the D700 to 200K on the D800. If the cost of that increase is oil splatter for the first 2K shot, it might be well worth it.

Oh, and my D700 did have oil splatter in its early life.

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Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html

You forget 'Sanitation Engineer'!

Sorry...

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-KB-

I am a software engineer and know nothing about oil splatters.
So yeah, his polite question didn't deserve your snotty answer.

Sorry but I have never heard of other cameras getting OIL on the sensor. Which ones are you referring to?

Stef.

--
http://stefaniekappel.tumblr.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/15931938@N05/

Where have you been?

Occasional"oil" problems have been reported with most body types - including my D3.

dpreview were not prepared to say their D600 had oil (as distinct from other contamination) after 4 weeks use http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d600/12

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Leonard Shepherd
Many problems turn out to be a lack of intimate knowledge of complex modern camera equipment.

I think it was a joke. ENGINEER in all caps.

eg: SALESMAN does not imply knowledge of all products, or HE'S MARRIED does not mean faithful!

I think (to me) what is most important is where the oil is coming from. Is it coming as a residual condition of assembly, or is it coming from what should be a sealed system that is leaking. The former can be tolerated, the latter cannot.

And I agree that it does make a difference regarding what field the engineer is in. An IT engineer, or even a chemical engineer might not be as qualified as, say, a mechanical engineer ot an industrial engineer. But let's not dwell on the specificity of the engineering field, but more the appropriate question [by the engineer], IMO.

Having spots all over the place such as myself and many other users suffer from is not what I would call an 'occassional' issue.

Why can't Nikon simply release a statement regarding the issue and solve it with whatever means necessary (i.e. replacing/adjusting the part that is causing the oil to splatter).

Canon owned up to their mistake. Look here -

http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/news/EOS_oil_spots.do

I think Nikon could take a serious lesson in customer relations from Canon. Is it really so hard?

I do not think it's a grease type lubricant; it should rather be a thin-fluid sort and the viscosity should be low enough  to allow higher and higher synch speeds of the latest models (synch speed is also related to  the velocity of the upward movement of shutter curtains). Add to this also the requirement of maintaining the same high velocities at sub-zero temperatures too (with grease it's not possible.)  BTW, I do not believe the shutters are lubricated at Nikon plant, they should come as ready-to-install from the shutter manufacturer (Copal?). Most probably Nikon is discussing the issue with the supplier.

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BobYIL