D600 file size: RAW, lossless compressed

Started Nov 16, 2012 | Discussions
eNo
eNo
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D600 file size: RAW, lossless compressed
Nov 16, 2012

Haven't heard much discussion about this, like we did for the D800. Perhaps people are quite happy file sizes aren't 75MB, or maybe I missed the discusisons (haven't been here for a while). Can D600 users share what sorts of RAW, lossless compressed file sizes they are getting?

Nikon D600 Nikon D800
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AllOtherNamesTaken
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28-30 MB 14 bit lossless compression
In reply to eNo, Nov 16, 2012

Almost always 28-30 MB. Size is a non-issue, even a cheap computer these days chew through them like nothing.

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Nikonfan99
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Re: D600 file size: RAW, lossless compressed
In reply to eNo, Nov 16, 2012

Well to be honest with you this is the reason I went with the d600 vs d800. As a wedding shooter it matters to me. I shoot RAW at the highest quality and a 32gig SD card will only hold around 530 images. That may seem like a lot but when you shoot weddings it is not a lot. Average wedding I may shoot 1400-1700 images. So we are talking around 100gig of NEF raw files that I have to keep to start with. I also burn my original raw fils to dvd so that means each dvd holds I think 4.5gig so that is a lot of dvds to store. Yes I also keep them on a harddrive but what if that fails? Got to have a backup plan so the dvd is the way to go for me since it is a hard copy and not stored in a remote location. Now consider that I also have to keep my edited tiffs and final JPEGS and you quickly find out how much space you will need compared to a D90 or D7000. It is substantially more. I always keep all my originals because you never know when a bride will ask for something years later and you cant be like..."well I deleted that". A story comes to mind of a bride that lost a family member and the last time he was photographed was at a wedding. They did not think about it when they got the original images but later they went back to the photographer to see if he could dig up an image from the event. This meant the world to them since this would have been the only recent photo of the person. Could be a real story could be fake but I never want to be the one that says "I deleted that. sorry". I usually deliver around 700 images but still keep it all for such an event or a legal situation where my work is ever questioned.

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eNo
eNo
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Re: 28-30 MB 14 bit lossless compression
In reply to AllOtherNamesTaken, Nov 16, 2012

AllOtherNamesTaken wrote:

Almost always 28-30 MB. Size is a non-issue, even a cheap computer these days chew through them like nothing.

Thanks. That's about what I estimated (~25MB) given D7000 16MP file sizes. My new computer and software should chew through those files just as you say... I'm more concerned about the logistics of storage and backup: transfer speeds haven't grown that much, and when you start moving files around for long-term safe-keeping you do start feeling the strain of larger file sizes.

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eNo
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Re: D600 file size: RAW, lossless compressed
In reply to Nikonfan99, Nov 16, 2012

Nikonfan99 wrote:

Well to be honest with you this is the reason I went with the d600 vs d800. As a wedding shooter it matters to me.

Yeah, same here: I didn't see how the D800 would justify itself for the lion share of my wedding photography work. I do know some photographers I respect are doing just fine with it, though.

I shoot RAW at the highest quality and a 32gig SD card will only hold around 530 images. That may seem like a lot but when you shoot weddings it is not a lot. Average wedding I may shoot 1400-1700 images. So we are talking around 100gig of NEF raw files that I have to keep to start with.

I hear you. It adds up quickly. Cards are cheap, but having to swap them often isn't fun in the middle of the fun. I suspect I'll be using my D700 bodies until they die. They're doing just fine during my weddings, thank you. I'll probably end up using a D600 for selected portraits and my fine art landscape work.

I also burn my original raw fils to dvd so that means each dvd holds I think 4.5gig so that is a lot of dvds to store. Yes I also keep them on a harddrive but what if that fails?

I used to burn DVDs, but I gave up on that. Certainly not practical at 4.5GB a pop. I now used duplicate, mirrored external drives, and at some point you also have to think about offsite/online storage. As I mentioned in my other reply, the logistics of long term back up and storage are a consideration most people ignore when they say "computers are faster and memory is cheap".

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Nikonfan99
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Re: 28-30 MB 14 bit lossless compression
In reply to eNo, Nov 16, 2012

Okay just checked so on a 32gig card Raw 14bit lossless compressed :

d600= 590images

d7000=900 images

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Nikonfan99
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Re: D600 file size: RAW, lossless compressed
In reply to eNo, Nov 16, 2012

Yeah I trusted external drives until one toshiba started to fail on me in the middle of a download of a wedding. I am not a fan of switching out cards during a wedding at all. The thought of  a lost card and in this case 500+ images scares the life out of me. I have to 32gig cards in at a time and am kind of trying to decide if I want to set the second card as a backup copy or set it to overflow so that I dont have to swap out cards as often. I use lexar cards and have yet to have one fail on me (knock on wood). But I guess cards are cheap enough now days. In the days of CF cards I hated changing cards because I always feared a bent PIN issue. Now with SD cards the bent pin issue is gone. Thank god. Off site storage is good but I think I would rather open a bank safety box and keep a harddrive in it or the DVD's. I also keep all my JPEGS on my smugmug site so that is always a backup. I am paranoid enough to keep my dvds in my car till I deliver my bride her copies and a copy of the files at home on my drive.

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eNo
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Re: D600 file size: RAW, lossless compressed
In reply to Nikonfan99, Nov 16, 2012

Most wedding photogs I know like the D600 (and D800) dual slot capability so that they can use the 2nd slot as duplicate/backup. I haven't ever lost images during a wedding with my single slot bodies, but I can see the peace-of-mind appeal to the backup capability... even if you're losing the added capacity.

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Leo360
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Nikon's 14-bit lossy compression is OK
In reply to eNo, Nov 16, 2012

eNo wrote:

Haven't heard much discussion about this, like we did for the D800. Perhaps people are quite happy file sizes aren't 75MB, or maybe I missed the discusisons (haven't been here for a while). Can D600 users share what sorts of RAW, lossless compressed file sizes they are getting?

Feel free to use 14-bit compressed mode (aka lossy compressed). In its lossy compression algorithm Nikon uses a clever variable-step quantizer that is in lock-step with the photon shot noise. Your shadows are reproduced with no loss and only blown highlights have extra quantization noise. Overall you will hardly notice any difference from lossless (at least when ISO < 3200). Importantly, dynamic range stays the same!

Leo

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AllOtherNamesTaken
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Re: 28-30 MB 14 bit lossless compression
In reply to Nikonfan99, Nov 16, 2012

Nikonfan99 wrote:

Okay just checked so on a 32gig card Raw 14bit lossless compressed :

d600= 590images

d7000=900 images

It's not quite that simple, that implies the D600 images over 50 MB which they aren't.  The camera's estimates of remaining space have always been extremely conservative.  My D300 says 192 and I always get over 300.  The D600 is similar.

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AllOtherNamesTaken
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Re: 28-30 MB 14 bit lossless compression
In reply to eNo, Nov 16, 2012

eNo wrote:

AllOtherNamesTaken wrote:

Almost always 28-30 MB. Size is a non-issue, even a cheap computer these days chew through them like nothing.

Thanks. That's about what I estimated (~25MB) given D7000 16MP file sizes. My new computer and software should chew through those files just as you say... I'm more concerned about the logistics of storage and backup: transfer speeds haven't grown that much, and when you start moving files around for long-term safe-keeping you do start feeling the strain of larger file sizes.

Transfer speeds have actually increased significantly with things like USB 3.0 which is many times faster than 2.0. Typical transfer speeds are around 100 MB/s which is only a few minutes to clear a 32 GB card of files. I use a pair of 8 GB Sandisk Extreme Pro 95MB/s cards in my D600 and they were only $20 each. I figure by the time both are full, I should be backing up for redundancy.

An alternative to USB 3.0 is eSATA which has similar speeds, many external hard drives are available with this format but USB 3.0 is quickly becoming the standard.

Storage is so cheap it shouldn't be a concern for anyone. The last pair of 2TB hard drives I bought were $59. Blu Rays are also cheap if you prefer to back up to a hard copy.

Honestly since I got the D600 storage and transfer speeds have been the least of my concerns. In fact they are way faster than before because I didn't previously have USB 3.0 with my D300. The file sizes are twice as big but my transfer speeds are 10X faster.

If for some reason you are moving hundreds of GB of files, you don't have to sit there and watch it! Haha.

I think you will be just fine!

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Nikonfan99
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Re: 28-30 MB 14 bit lossless compression
In reply to AllOtherNamesTaken, Nov 16, 2012

thanks for the info. I was just saying what the camera was telling me on the screen. I have never pushed a card to where it is full to see how far I can get. Thank you for the info will need to test it one day

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AllOtherNamesTaken
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Re: 28-30 MB 14 bit lossless compression
In reply to Nikonfan99, Nov 16, 2012

Nikonfan99 wrote:

thanks for the info. I was just saying what the camera was telling me on the screen. I have never pushed a card to where it is full to see how far I can get. Thank you for the info will need to test it one day

Yeah I'm not sure why the camera estimates are quite as conservative as they are, but you can almost double it if there's a fresh/blank card in there.  As you shoot through the day and slowly fill up the card, the estimate gets more and more realistic.

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Nikonfan99
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Re: 28-30 MB 14 bit lossless compression
In reply to AllOtherNamesTaken, Nov 16, 2012

wow. Interesting. I am not home at this moment but will need to do some math when I get home to get some real world numbers. I need to look at my raw file size and calculate out what a 32gig card can actually hold vs what the camera is telling me

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AllOtherNamesTaken
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Re: 28-30 MB 14 bit lossless compression
In reply to Nikonfan99, Nov 16, 2012

Nikonfan99 wrote:

wow. Interesting. I am not home at this moment but will need to do some math when I get home to get some real world numbers. I need to look at my raw file size and calculate out what a 32gig card can actually hold vs what the camera is telling me

You should get right around 1,000 - 1,150 lossless compressed 14 bit RAW on a 32GB card with a D600 (32,768 MB on the card, roughly 28-30MB per D600 file).

On each 8GB card of mine I get around 260 images, so right around 520 images for the combined 16 GB, which is the same amount as the camera would have you believe for 32 GB. Better to be on the conservative side, though.

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Nikonfan99
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Re: 28-30 MB 14 bit lossless compression
In reply to AllOtherNamesTaken, Nov 16, 2012

Thank you for doing the calculation for me. I got home and had to pack up for my event tonight. Did not have a chance to play around. Btw, I did a wall dust test with my d600 and plan to do another test when I get home after the event. I want to compare before and after images and want to see if this event will add any significant amount of dust. Some people are concerned with this. As much as I hate to do it, it will mean another dust post created with the results and pre-test

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