Nikon D600 gold award

Started Nov 13, 2012 | Discussions
rusticus
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Re: Nikon D600 gold award
In reply to Karl Scharf, Nov 14, 2012

Surprising for a vacuum cleaner

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TrojMacReady
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Re: Nikon D600 same sensor as A99 but ...
In reply to Photostyle, Nov 14, 2012

Photostyle wrote:

It seems again proven that Sony make the best sensors, but that Nikon can put better images out of that sensor then Sony !!!

Doesn't take an Einstein to realize that the beamsplitter is the main reason we see a difference, rather than what Nikon or Sony are capable of as you seem to suggest.

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Karl Scharf
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Re: Nikon D600 gold award
In reply to Karl Scharf, Nov 14, 2012

I am sure the Sony A99 is a great camera regardless of the level of 'award' it will ultimately receive.

For me however, I can't justify spending that much money, and will stick with my A77.

Besides that, I still prefer the old quick release hot shoe, built in flash, and 1.5X extra reach that the APS-C format provides.

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rhlpetrus
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Re: Nikon colour
In reply to TrojMacReady, Nov 14, 2012

TrojMacReady wrote

The person you replied to is a RAW shooter, so I assume this was about RAW output. And while you can create your own profiles, colour response and especially separation are hard and sometimes impossible to counter through profiles after the fact. People who help create RAW converters can tell you all about it (Iliah Borg for example).

Color seems to be the last bastion of irrationality in forums. Oly fans are the most rabid about it, but lately Canon folks have also started that (maybe because the C sensors are lacking a bit in most aspects). Even if there may be some critical issues technically, and Iliah is known for his exact standards, I doubt a well exposed image with proper conversion will suffer from any color issues, any maker. And it's not uncommon for those complaining about colors to have uncalibrated monitors.

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rhlpetrus
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It's about value
In reply to NPPhoto, Nov 14, 2012

NPPhoto wrote:

I have slobered enough over both those cameras and while the D600 is a good camera, it feels clumsy in the hands. There is no articulating screen, MFA, etc. The A99 has come a long way in terms of high iso but it is still a stop or stop'n'half behind the D600. But, there are numerous other pro friendly features in the A99 that should land it the gold award. Not that I care but it should. It is a beautiful handling camera and does not feel clumsy at all.

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Nick P

If the D600 cost 2,800USD, I doubt it'd be given such high marks.

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TrojMacReady
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Re: Nikon colour
In reply to rhlpetrus, Nov 14, 2012

rhlpetrus wrote:

TrojMacReady wrote

The person you replied to is a RAW shooter, so I assume this was about RAW output. And while you can create your own profiles, colour response and especially separation are hard and sometimes impossible to counter through profiles after the fact. People who help create RAW converters can tell you all about it (Iliah Borg for example).

I doubt a well exposed image with proper conversion will suffer from any color issues, any maker.

That's a fun quote to pass on to Iliah. Just to see what he thinks.

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tbcass
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Re: Although I think the D600 is 1 or 1.5 stops better than the A99, I'd still give it Silver...
In reply to NPPhoto, Nov 14, 2012

NPPhoto wrote:

I have slobered enough over both those cameras and while the D600 is a good camera, it feels clumsy in the hands. There is no articulating screen, MFA, etc. The A99 has come a long way in terms of high iso but it is still a stop or stop'n'half behind the D600. But, there are numerous other pro friendly features in the A99 that should land it the gold award. Not that I care but it should. It is a beautiful handling camera and does not feel clumsy at all.

How do you determine that? Using the IR Comparator the A99 is nearly as good at iso1600 as the D600 is at iso100 but at iso3200 and above the D600 jumps ahead. It appears to me that Sony is being overly aggressive with NR at iso3200 and up. To truly make such a comparison you must use RAW.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM

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Photostyle
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Re: Nikon D600 same sensor as A99 but ...
In reply to TrojMacReady, Nov 14, 2012

TrojMacReady wrote:

Photostyle wrote:

It seems again proven that Sony make the best sensors, but that Nikon can put better images out of that sensor then Sony !!!

Doesn't take an Einstein to realize that the beamsplitter is the main reason we see a difference, rather than what Nikon or Sony are capable of as you seem to suggest.

If you put it that way, one could turn it the other way around and say : way is the beamsplitter still not better then the Nikon technology ? why do we need that ? because Sony impose that to there costumers ? I say it again, Sony make the best sensors, and other brands make the best camera's with Sony sensors !!!!!

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TrojMacReady
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In reply to Photostyle, Nov 14, 2012

Photostyle wrote:

TrojMacReady wrote:

Photostyle wrote:

It seems again proven that Sony make the best sensors, but that Nikon can put better images out of that sensor then Sony !!!

Doesn't take an Einstein to realize that the beamsplitter is the main reason we see a difference, rather than what Nikon or Sony are capable of as you seem to suggest.

If you put it that way, one could turn it the other way around and say : way is the beamsplitter still not better then the Nikon technology ? why do we need that ? because Sony impose that to there costumers ?

Because a lot of people value the LV plus fast PDAF. As witnessed in these forums by those that actually use them.

You have a better proposition? Another OVF Sony market fail ("me too" product without the CaNikon badge)?

I say it again, Sony make the best sensors, and other brands make the best camera's with Sony sensors !!!!!

You're free to think that based on your preferences. Those that value SLT's obviously disgree.

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mkdafne
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Sony user to switched over to Nikon
In reply to Takuya, Nov 14, 2012

I'm not really sure as to what you mean by that last statement of "too many features", but I can completely understand why people think the a99 is overpriced (I know I did). For past history, I've been using the a700 for some time now, and recently purchased a D600. I've also used the a850 and a900. Personally, I'm not against using an SLT (I actually liked it when I test out the a77). I don't think DPR should take off points for it, as I found them to work really well (except in certain, uncommon situations). Now, I haven't used the a99, but I did the a77 and I found it to be unresponsive. The menu's tended to lag, off to on time was noticeable long, and the camera needed some time to catch up after I had changed settings. Interesting, I never had these issues with any older Sony cameras. I'm hoping that these issues were resolved with the a99. The major reason that I switched to Nikon was price. I don't think the D600 is a miracle camera, but over the past month, I have found that it works INCREDIBLY well. The only two issues I have had is the green shift AWB (which I fixed by taking two seconds to go into the Custom AWB menu) and the obnoxiously bright AF assist lamp (I have not missed it once since I turned it off, the AF is actually that good in dark light). My major concern with the D600 was the lack of external controls. However, this is the first camera (including the a77) that I feel I can almost totally really on Auto ISO, matrix metering, and AWB in ALL conditions. I know that some people in this forum don't feel that the D600 doesn't deserve such a high score, but use it and I think you will change your mind. That said, I think DPR were perfectly accurate in their assumption that this camera will undercut the a99, D800, and 5D Mark iii. Sony already has a difficult time tempting people to switch over from Nikon or Canon, and the D600 (and 6D) will only make it tougher. I think Sony could make headway if they release a fullframe for less than 2000.

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Cartagena Photo
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Re: Nikon D600 gold award
In reply to JohnBee, Nov 14, 2012

johnbee wrote:

philbot wrote:

The D600 is in a class of its own, I suspect the A99 will be in the D800 class as far as DPreview scores are concerned, and thus I'd expect it will not get gold for the EVF and 1/3 stop SLT loss...

But I think for the money, the D600 deserves it's score!

I agree.

The D600 is a milestone camera and well deserving of being recognized as such.

Hi

What milestone is there about D600? Not price since sony a850 sold for the same price. not resolution since we have seen that before and D800 have higher res.

kind regards

David

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Cartagena Photo
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Re: Nikon D600 gold award
In reply to Karl Scharf, Nov 14, 2012

Karl Scharf wrote:

DPREVIEW just posted its review of the Nikon D600 that has the same sensor as the Sony A99:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/11/13/nikon-d600-review-posted

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after having the nikon d600 in my hands i was deeply dissapointed it feels lousy holding in my hand the viewfinder was dark with a 2.8  lens and the camera feels cheap compared to sony a900, a77, and even my a700.

nikon d800 feels munch better. and so does the a99 based on my experience with sony. a99 are a class higher than d600 and thats a fact.

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rusticus
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Re: Nikon D600 gold award
In reply to Karl Scharf, Nov 14, 2012

a camera with such problems: dust and oil on the sensor, over and over again, does not deserve a Gold Award

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Dave Oddie
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Re: Nikon D600 gold award
In reply to Takuya, Nov 15, 2012

Takuya wrote:

Ohhhhh here we go. This gets gold and the A99 will get less because it has 'too many features' and 'is too expensive' and everyone will freak out. I can see it now.

I am with you on that one.

Not in the market for either camera but it reminds me of the daft posts when Nikon launched their 24mp entry level camera.  Apparently that made  the A77 worthless.

DPR are not unaffiliated by the same myopia.  I think they gave the A65 a gold v the A77 a silver due to value for money.  Well value in luxury goods (that is what these cameras are to amateurs) is not necessarily judged like that.  It's features that are important to the individual that represent "value".

I also think we are at the stage where we were with film decades ago.

By this I mean if you put Kodachrome 64 in a Nikkormat FTN SLR (entry level Nikon film SLR for those who don't know what I am on about) and put the same film in a Nikon F2AS pro SLR, stuck a 50mm Nikkor lens on both you would NOT be able to tell the difference in the results.

Why buy the F2AS then?  Obviously for the numerous features it had the FTN didn't.

This is why you would buy a D800 over a D600 or a A99 over either.  Or a D600 over the other two.  Whatever floats your boat.

Now I am sure someone will find 1/3 of stop difference or whatever between the D600 and A99 at ISO-stupidly-high but even if at 100% you can see this I am certain no one will be able to see it in a blind test in a very large print.

So to summarise - stop obsessing about the "film" (the sensor) and buy the camera with the features that meets your needs and award whatever camera you decide on your own Gold Award because it matches exactly what you want personally in a camera.

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Michel J
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Re: Nikon D600 gold award
In reply to Karl Scharf, Nov 15, 2012

Karl Scharf wrote:

The more that I learn about the Sony A99, the less likely I will purchase it.

DPREVIEW just posted its review of the Nikon D600 that has the same sensor as the Sony A99:

No, no, no its the Sony A99 that has the same sensor as the Nikon D600 ( )

Cheers,

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hdkhang
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Re: Nikon D600 gold award
In reply to Bobby72, Nov 15, 2012

Bobby72 wrote:

hdkhang wrote:

Bobby72 wrote:

Bobby72 wrote:

phiri wrote:

Bobby72 wrote:

What does an award say. At the end it is always about your own opinion. What is the critera of the test? Nikon is a brand in cameras with a big reputation. But live goes on and development in cameras as well. Critera should change as well. Wenn I see the image of a Nikon and I compare it with the A99 image, for me it is a big difference. When I use my Samsung PS64D8000 with a full silver hdmi cable from Audioquest the difference in dynamic is huge between these two brands. You would be blind if you would not see it. Even for free I would not want to use the Nikon D600. Why? It is for me ( yes it is always personal) very simple why the A99 is better. It is sharper, colours are stronger and the ove rwhole it is a lot more dynamic. You need a screen what can show it to you. When I would do the test I never could give the Nikon ( I used Nikon for over 6 years) an golden award. Because I am aware of the less dynamic colours and less depth compared to the A99. I am a person who is always only interested in the best at the moment. Brand I really don't care. I want the best. I want maximum emotion in my image and in my video. At this moment only a Sony A99 can do this. Sometimes things are very simple in life!

How are you viewing these pictures? Are they out of picture jpegs? How was your tv calibrated? I have the same tv calibrated with both a spectro and tristimulus color analyser. However, for photos, i prefer my wide gamut monitor which is calibrated to adobe rgb standard. Srgb is just too narrow for me to appreciate color saturation and DR. However, if a99 ticks all the right boxes for you, who is another person to say something to the contrary? Enjoy it as much as you can

Tomorrow I will send an email to someone who own's a Nikon D800. He works for Nikon here in the Netherlands. I want to do a shoot with him against the A99. With a tripod. I will send the pictures to Dpreview. I hope to inform you soon.

What I do is watching high resolution pictures (6000x4000) with the Diamond hdmi. Just buy it, it gives you so much more information of pictures and videos. Black are a lot more black, 3D in a picture has more depth with this cable. I save pictures of cameras in high resolution and watch these on my Samsung plasma. After some time you see a pattern. You realize that there is a big difference in how A sony 99 makes a picture compared to a Nikon. Nikon pictures are good. But it never blows me away as the A99 does. I will invite some people with Nikon D800 to show them what dynamic and 3d in a picture is.

Nonsense. HDMI is digital, if the image is changing as a result of your cables, then you have faulty cables.

Secondly, Dynamic and 3D is all about the combination of camera, lens, post processing and photographer. Unless you are taking identical photos under identical conditions and processing them to the same output, then you are just comparing random photos that you like based on a bias or preference for one camera over another.

I do consulting in sound and vision. I do tests in cables for over 14 years. Wenn you have the experience level I have then you understand. For those who think digital cables are all the same should wash there mouth. First compare and then talk. There is still a big difference in dynamics in Sony and Nikon. This can been seen very easilly. It has nothing to do about prefference. A camera has it or has it less. It is that simple!

Maybe you should wash your mouth, as it is you who is propagating nonsense and leading others astray.

The purpose of a HDMI cable is to deliver the image "AS IS" straight from the source. If you are seeing differences in cables, then the cables are "faulty" - simple as that (personally I believe you are just imagining things - if not, prove it with double blind testing). Afterall, how does a dumb device like a HDMI cable know how to improve the image pray tell? How does it know you like your pictures with Unsharp mask turned up a notch, with saturation dialed up, or a different tone curve? The answer is - it does not. So again, if the image from your beloved HDMI cable surpasses that of the other cable, then either the other cable or your preferred cable is faulty as it is not doing it's job.

It would be like saying: "buy car A because it can do 60km/h faster than car B can do 60km/h" which is nonsense because 60km/h is 60km/h and if they differ, then you are likely comparing via speedo instead of measuring actual speed and car A is underestimating the speed.

BTW, do you also believe that with a "superior USB cable" attached to my camera that it would improve the "quality" of the pictures that I transfer across? Or that if I buy a super duper ethernet cable, that the images I upload to the internets would look heaps better? Because that is exactly the hogwash you are spouting when you spread your nonsense.

As for camera "moxy", again... comparing cameras with same/similar sensors it is down to the individual, the settings, the scene, the lens etc. if you can't spend 5 minutes setting up your gear to produce the result you want, then you should just say so instead of making up some nonsense that a camera has some innate ability to add depth and dynamism to a photo that a human being takes when pressing the shutter release. What you are preaching is like saying that a camera somehow has the ability to "see" for you and magically whispers in your ear the precise moment to press the shutter.

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dlkeller
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Re: Don't forget it's a Nikon
In reply to fjbyrne, Nov 15, 2012

Totally agree and you really hit a good point on the education and training of dealers and sale people, most of whom haven't a clue as to the use of the EVF and other features.  While at it they might rethink their marketing in terms of making their cameras more available to the public.

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3systermuser
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Re: Nikon D600 gold award
In reply to Karl Scharf, Nov 16, 2012

if you really used it extensively like I did , you would know it is a cheap very slow camera with very poor build.

the AF in this camera is very old dated D7k AF system ,which is known to have many many minor design flaws.

the OVF in this camera has really annoying yellow tint in it.

the video is very bad , you can even not change f number in video and LV mode.

although built like a toy , this so-called entry level FX is heavier than my A99v,which actually replaced my D600.

I also have a D800 and I think the D800 is a much better camera than the D600.

so, if you want a Nikon , get the D800, what you get what you pay for , the D600 is not any kind of rival or threat to the A99v or the D800.

by the way, the dust issue is serious (very serious)and it alone should have made it a not-recommended kind of camera(if the review had been honest)

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3systermuser
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Re: Nikon D600 gold award
In reply to JohnBee, Nov 16, 2012

have you ever actually used it in real life, to say it(milestone,etc?

if so, I think you have very low standard for your cameras , IOW, you are a kind of person  easily  get satisfied with your camera.

I cannot imagine if someone actually used it and dealt with the terrible dust and shutter lag and the poor quality grip that always makes some annoying squeaky noise , feel like what you wrote about it(milestone,etc).

the dust alone should have made it not recommended kind of camera.

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3systermuser
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Re: Nikon D600 gold award
In reply to Takuya, Nov 16, 2012

the D600 was also a very slow camera in operation speed and its LCD has some some annoying green cast in it but at least it can display images very fast even in Adobe RGB mode.

but again its dust and poor build quality should have made it a not-recommended kind of camera.

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