Nikon D600 gold award

Started Nov 13, 2012 | Discussions
phiri
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Re: Nikon D600 gold award
In reply to Bobby72, Nov 14, 2012

Bobby72 wrote:

Bobby72 wrote:

phiri wrote:

Bobby72 wrote:

What does an award say. At the end it is always about your own opinion. What is the critera of the test? Nikon is a brand in cameras with a big reputation. But live goes on and development in cameras as well. Critera should change as well. Wenn I see the image of a Nikon and I compare it with the A99 image, for me it is a big difference. When I use my Samsung PS64D8000 with a full silver hdmi cable from Audioquest the difference in dynamic is huge between these two brands. You would be blind if you would not see it. Even for free I would not want to use the Nikon D600. Why? It is for me ( yes it is always personal) very simple why the A99 is better. It is sharper, colours are stronger and the ove rwhole it is a lot more dynamic. You need a screen what can show it to you. When I would do the test I never could give the Nikon ( I used Nikon for over 6 years) an golden award. Because I am aware of the less dynamic colours and less depth compared to the A99. I am a person who is always only interested in the best at the moment. Brand I really don't care. I want the best. I want maximum emotion in my image and in my video. At this moment only a Sony A99 can do this. Sometimes things are very simple in life!

How are you viewing these pictures? Are they out of picture jpegs? How was your tv calibrated? I have the same tv calibrated with both a spectro and tristimulus color analyser. However, for photos, i prefer my wide gamut monitor which is calibrated to adobe rgb standard. Srgb is just too narrow for me to appreciate color saturation and DR. However, if a99 ticks all the right boxes for you, who is another person to say something to the contrary? Enjoy it as much as you can

Tomorrow I will send an email to someone who own's a Nikon D800. He works for Nikon here in the Netherlands. I want to do a shoot with him against the A99. With a tripod. I will send the pictures to Dpreview. I hope to inform you soon.

What I do is watching high resolution pictures (6000x4000) with the Diamond hdmi. Just buy it, it gives you so much more information of pictures and videos. Black are a lot more black, 3D in a picture has more depth with this cable. I save pictures of cameras in high resolution and watch these on my Samsung plasma. After some time you see a pattern. You realize that there is a big difference in how A sony 99 makes a picture compared to a Nikon. Nikon pictures are good. But it never blows me away as the A99 does. I will invite some people with Nikon D800 to show them what dynamic and 3d in a picture is.

You have not answered any questions really. Is your tv calibrated? If it is, to what standard? When you are viewing these pictures on the tv, do you convert them to any particular color profile? I think you are also paying too much attention to the type of hdmi being used here because that is just a marketing ploy by manufacturers particularly when the cable is less than three meters. I use specialised cables myself. However, the difference between viewing pictures on the tele and well calibrated wide gamut monitor which has good black levels can be significant. Also when viewing pictures on the tele, the best way is to feed them native resolution that is 1920 x 1080 to avoid improper scaling agorithims. You can also maintain the 3:2 aspect ratio by feeding them 1080 x 1620. Instead of inviting people to assess how a 3d picture looks like on a sammy plasma, why dont you just upload some pictures here so that all of us can see that 3d effect on our viewing platforms including the very same tv but calibrated to system standard.

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Jabez02
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Re: Nikon D600 price point
In reply to Ralf B, Nov 14, 2012

Personally as I use studio flash more than flash guns the D600 is not usable as it comes. The more dongles you need the more expensive it becomes and the more difficult the handling of the camera is.

That is without extra problems of loss , damage or simply not being able to use the combination of features that you want to use.

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Dustinash
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Re: Nikon D600 gold award
In reply to Karl Scharf, Nov 14, 2012

Karl Scharf wrote:

DPREVIEW just posted its review of the Nikon D600 that has the same sensor as the Sony A99:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/11/13/nikon-d600-review-posted

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Karl Scharf >>> ( Sony SLT-A77, Rokinon 8mm, Sigma 10-20 f4.0-5.6, Sigma 18-250 f3.5-6.3, Sigma 50-500 f4.5-6.3 OS, Minolta 70-210 f4.0, Minolta 50 f1.7, Kenko 1.4x DGX ) <<<

Of NOTE - ALL OR ALMOST ALL THE "CONS" LISTED FOR THE D600 ARE THINGS THAT THE A(( ADDRESSES

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sensibill
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Re: Nikon D600 gold award
In reply to philbot, Nov 14, 2012

Good point. EVF at FF may be more of an issue, and the noise discrepancy may be more pronounced vs. the competitively priced D600.

I played with one at a local Costco last week and really, really wanted to take it home with me even though lack of swivel LCD feels limiting to me anymore, as does slow Live View.

I'm sure I could live with those things, but not sure I'd give gold to a camera with such a major dust problem.

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BuDWiZe
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Re: Nikon D600 gold award
In reply to philbot, Nov 14, 2012

philbot wrote:

The D600 is in a class of its own, I suspect the A99 will be in the D800 class as far as DPreview scores are concerned, and thus I'd expect it will not get gold for the EVF and 1/3 stop SLT loss...

But I think for the money, the D600 deserves it's score!

after having used a d800 then buying the a99 and seeing how much better it is overall while having less MP the only thing stopping a gold is dpr ignorance or fanboyism over canikon because i can assure you its on par with d800 if not better due to its other features and its sure as heck much more usable in nat light for portraits especially as you start heading below 1/250th of a sec where you often get movement blur on d800

but i couldnt be stuffed what rating they give it because i think its a serious piece of hardware

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phiri
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Re: Nikon D600 gold award
In reply to BuDWiZe, Nov 14, 2012

BuDWiZe wrote:

philbot wrote:

The D600 is in a class of its own, I suspect the A99 will be in the D800 class as far as DPreview scores are concerned, and thus I'd expect it will not get gold for the EVF and 1/3 stop SLT loss...

But I think for the money, the D600 deserves it's score!

after having used a d800 then buying the a99 and seeing how much better it is overall while having less MP the only thing stopping a gold is dpr ignorance or fanboyism over canikon because i can assure you its on par with d800 if not better due to its other features and its sure as heck much more usable in nat light for portraits especially as you start heading below 1/250th of a sec where you often get movement blur on d800

but i couldnt be stuffed what rating they give it because i think its a serious piece of hardware

You like it so much so who cares what DPreview say. Unless you do care. If you like it and you feel it is better than the rest, then just go ahead and enjoy it. Have you seen people dumping their D5100s for the A57 just because the latter has gold award? No. What do these awards mean in practical terms? Unless you can translate that into actual shooting results, they mean nothing. I know for Sony being a smaller player, such awards carry a lot of weight for some but in the end what matters is what you can do with such gear

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Bobby72
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Re: Nikon D600 gold award
In reply to hdkhang, Nov 14, 2012

hdkhang wrote:

Bobby72 wrote:

Bobby72 wrote:

phiri wrote:

Bobby72 wrote:

What does an award say. At the end it is always about your own opinion. What is the critera of the test? Nikon is a brand in cameras with a big reputation. But live goes on and development in cameras as well. Critera should change as well. Wenn I see the image of a Nikon and I compare it with the A99 image, for me it is a big difference. When I use my Samsung PS64D8000 with a full silver hdmi cable from Audioquest the difference in dynamic is huge between these two brands. You would be blind if you would not see it. Even for free I would not want to use the Nikon D600. Why? It is for me ( yes it is always personal) very simple why the A99 is better. It is sharper, colours are stronger and the ove rwhole it is a lot more dynamic. You need a screen what can show it to you. When I would do the test I never could give the Nikon ( I used Nikon for over 6 years) an golden award. Because I am aware of the less dynamic colours and less depth compared to the A99. I am a person who is always only interested in the best at the moment. Brand I really don't care. I want the best. I want maximum emotion in my image and in my video. At this moment only a Sony A99 can do this. Sometimes things are very simple in life!

How are you viewing these pictures? Are they out of picture jpegs? How was your tv calibrated? I have the same tv calibrated with both a spectro and tristimulus color analyser. However, for photos, i prefer my wide gamut monitor which is calibrated to adobe rgb standard. Srgb is just too narrow for me to appreciate color saturation and DR. However, if a99 ticks all the right boxes for you, who is another person to say something to the contrary? Enjoy it as much as you can

Tomorrow I will send an email to someone who own's a Nikon D800. He works for Nikon here in the Netherlands. I want to do a shoot with him against the A99. With a tripod. I will send the pictures to Dpreview. I hope to inform you soon.

What I do is watching high resolution pictures (6000x4000) with the Diamond hdmi. Just buy it, it gives you so much more information of pictures and videos. Black are a lot more black, 3D in a picture has more depth with this cable. I save pictures of cameras in high resolution and watch these on my Samsung plasma. After some time you see a pattern. You realize that there is a big difference in how A sony 99 makes a picture compared to a Nikon. Nikon pictures are good. But it never blows me away as the A99 does. I will invite some people with Nikon D800 to show them what dynamic and 3d in a picture is.

Nonsense. HDMI is digital, if the image is changing as a result of your cables, then you have faulty cables.

Secondly, Dynamic and 3D is all about the combination of camera, lens, post processing and photographer. Unless you are taking identical photos under identical conditions and processing them to the same output, then you are just comparing random photos that you like based on a bias or preference for one camera over another.

I do consulting in sound and vision. I do tests in cables for over 14 years. Wenn you have the experience level I have then you understand. For those who think digital cables are all the same should wash there mouth. First compare and then talk. There is still a big difference in  dynamics in Sony and Nikon. This can been seen very easilly. It has nothing to do about prefference. A camera has it or has it less. It is that simple!

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phiri
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Re: Nikon D600 gold award
In reply to Bobby72, Nov 14, 2012

Bobby72 wrote:

hdkhang wrote:

Bobby72 wrote:

Bobby72 wrote:

phiri wrote:

Bobby72 wrote:

What does an award say. At the end it is always about your own opinion. What is the critera of the test? Nikon is a brand in cameras with a big reputation. But live goes on and development in cameras as well. Critera should change as well. Wenn I see the image of a Nikon and I compare it with the A99 image, for me it is a big difference. When I use my Samsung PS64D8000 with a full silver hdmi cable from Audioquest the difference in dynamic is huge between these two brands. You would be blind if you would not see it. Even for free I would not want to use the Nikon D600. Why? It is for me ( yes it is always personal) very simple why the A99 is better. It is sharper, colours are stronger and the ove rwhole it is a lot more dynamic. You need a screen what can show it to you. When I would do the test I never could give the Nikon ( I used Nikon for over 6 years) an golden award. Because I am aware of the less dynamic colours and less depth compared to the A99. I am a person who is always only interested in the best at the moment. Brand I really don't care. I want the best. I want maximum emotion in my image and in my video. At this moment only a Sony A99 can do this. Sometimes things are very simple in life!

How are you viewing these pictures? Are they out of picture jpegs? How was your tv calibrated? I have the same tv calibrated with both a spectro and tristimulus color analyser. However, for photos, i prefer my wide gamut monitor which is calibrated to adobe rgb standard. Srgb is just too narrow for me to appreciate color saturation and DR. However, if a99 ticks all the right boxes for you, who is another person to say something to the contrary? Enjoy it as much as you can

Tomorrow I will send an email to someone who own's a Nikon D800. He works for Nikon here in the Netherlands. I want to do a shoot with him against the A99. With a tripod. I will send the pictures to Dpreview. I hope to inform you soon.

What I do is watching high resolution pictures (6000x4000) with the Diamond hdmi. Just buy it, it gives you so much more information of pictures and videos. Black are a lot more black, 3D in a picture has more depth with this cable. I save pictures of cameras in high resolution and watch these on my Samsung plasma. After some time you see a pattern. You realize that there is a big difference in how A sony 99 makes a picture compared to a Nikon. Nikon pictures are good. But it never blows me away as the A99 does. I will invite some people with Nikon D800 to show them what dynamic and 3d in a picture is.

Nonsense. HDMI is digital, if the image is changing as a result of your cables, then you have faulty cables.

Secondly, Dynamic and 3D is all about the combination of camera, lens, post processing and photographer. Unless you are taking identical photos under identical conditions and processing them to the same output, then you are just comparing random photos that you like based on a bias or preference for one camera over another.

I do consulting in sound and vision. I do tests in cables for over 14 years. Wenn you have the experience level I have then you understand. For those who think digital cables are all the same should wash there mouth. First compare and then talk. There is still a big difference in dynamics in Sony and Nikon. This can been seen very easilly. It has nothing to do about prefference. A camera has it or has it less. It is that simple!

of course there could be some differences but the big question is will they be perceptible? And what screen size, what viewing distance and which viewing environments? So are you saying that the a99 photos that have been posted here are totally different from those posted in the Nikon forums? If we go through the photos here we are going to get that 3D effect?. I still strongly believe that 3D effect in any photo has more to do with the lens used, the perspective of the photo and how the elements are arranged in the photo. But if you have any photos that you can load here so that we can appreciate that 3D effect please do so, we cant wait.

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fjbyrne
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Don't forget it's a Nikon
In reply to Ralf B, Nov 14, 2012

Ralf Bliesener wrote:

Oil on the sensor, a dim viewfinder put to shame by the a900/a850 OVF, and an all-plastic build according to iFixit's tear-down:

D600 all plastic

The D600 LCD not only does not fold out, it is actually fused to the rear case, and cannot be swapped without replacing the entire back of the camera. The D600 looks like an entry level body with an FF sensor slapped in. It will surely find its market.

While the a99 price of 2800 $ / Euro is too close to the current D800 street prices IMHO, the D600 price point appears as justified at first glance - until you remember what price point the a850 was sold at.

I can only speak from my admittedly limited experiences here in the USA.  If Nikon/Canon and Sony produced an identical camera expect for the logo the Sony would have to be priced significantly cheaper to even get close to the Nikon/Canon sales numbers.  So even though the A99 is better spec'd than the D600 IMO it needs to be priced the same to cancel out the Nikon/Canon effect and take any sales from the D600.  Of course Sony would still need to effectively advertise and train sales people as well so I am not holding my breath.

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barri
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A99 will, too.
In reply to Karl Scharf, Nov 14, 2012

You can compare to the A99 in the studio shots, and I find the A99 amazingly similar. Given the superior feature set, esp. the EVF, I think we will see a GOLD award for the A99, too.

Thanks for the A99, Sony !

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phiri
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Re: A99 will, too.
In reply to barri, Nov 14, 2012

barri wrote:

You can compare to the A99 in the studio shots, and I find the A99 amazingly similar. Given the superior feature set, esp. the EVF, I think we will see a GOLD award for the A99, too.

Thanks for the A99, Sony !

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Again, Sony will have a score of between 79 and 82 to the disappointment of many. Sony a99 will not be in the same category as the D600.It will compete against the 5DMKIII and Nikon D800/E. What I can tell you is that its score will not be greater than these two. You see here is where Sony has a problem. People dont know what to compare it with

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phiri
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Re: Nikon colour
In reply to TrojMacReady, Nov 14, 2012

TrojMacReady wrote:

phiri wrote:

Amateur Sony Shooter wrote:

It's interesting to see I am not alone with option of "Nikon Colour". I used D300 and D7000 for more than a few occasions and compare to Sony files I can't stand their colour: dull, lack of shadow details while highlight got clipping away at the same time. Yes Nikon has less noise but the whole image looks like grayscale with colour overlay.

As for A99, I wish it's priced at $2500 instead of $2800, maybe Sony will lower its price soon since everyone is complaining it's higher price point. If you already have sizeable A-mount FF lenses these few hundreds won't matter that much. My personal prediction for A99's score card is solid above 80 points, at least silver award. Not that I care anyway since I already bought A99.

Out of the box, Nikon tends to be conservative with its picture styles. If tou shoot jpeg, you can create your own profiles and load them into the camera or you can adjust picture settings. Fr a raw shooter like me who prefers to shoot with uniwb and custom neutral profile, i can worry about that in post. This thing about colors is funny though

The person you replied to is a RAW shooter, so I assume this was about RAW output. And while you can create your own profiles, colour response and especially separation are hard and sometimes impossible to counter through profiles after the fact. People who help create RAW converters can tell you all about it (Iliah Borg for example).

I understand that very well but honestly if we go to the studio samples and assess red, blue, green and whatever colors, will we get this sense that the a99 has much better colors the rest of the FF cameras?

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Mark K
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Re: Nikon D600 gold award
In reply to philbot, Nov 14, 2012

philbot wrote:

The D600 is in a class of its own, I suspect the A99 will be in the D800 class as far as DPreview scores are concerned, and thus I'd expect it will not get gold for the EVF and 1/3 stop SLT loss...

But I think for the money, the D600 deserves it's score!

A99 is not in the D800 class yet because of

1. AF system

2. sensor size

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Mark K

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rob asnong
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Re: Nikon D600 gold award
In reply to Karl Scharf, Nov 14, 2012

I compared the A99 with the D800 and 5DmkIII all in my hands.

I can tell you that I just ordered an A99.

What is the only potential contra for the Sony (for me)? The 1/5 stop light loss? But more than good enough in real shooting conditions as is proved enough by now. Some will say the EVF too but for me it is a BIG pro!

What are the pro's (for my taste):

* articulated LCD, I can't miss it anymore;

* the fantastic EVF, I can't miss it anymore either (after 35 years of OVF!!), discussed enough already;

* the Minolta heritage of color handling;

* MFNR: I use it a lot in low light situations on my A77, many times not even mentioned in reviews but a real nice feature;

* Focus peaking: well again this feature reinvent in some way manual focusing and is a real joy to use; I use my old manual lenses more and more;

* the A99 body just fits much better in my hands the any other camera and I try them all. Maybe not so important but for me it is as a work with camera's several hours a day;

* I even hope that the sound is as much appealing as the one on the A77. I know, it is not much worth mentioning it, but for me it is again a nice plus, working hours a day with a camera;

Conclusion for me is that all these cameras do well quality wise these days but that the ergonomic handling and other comfort items, such as EVF with it's information, focus peaking, MFNR, etc. are more important than before.

Rob

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TrojMacReady
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Hmm?
In reply to Mark K, Nov 14, 2012

Mark K wrote:

philbot wrote:

The D600 is in a class of its own, I suspect the A99 will be in the D800 class as far as DPreview scores are concerned, and thus I'd expect it will not get gold for the EVF and 1/3 stop SLT loss...

But I think for the money, the D600 deserves it's score!

A99 is not in the D800 class yet because of

1. AF system

2. sensor size

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Mark K

Sensor size is the same...

Maybe you're confusing MP count and sensor size, but the former would still be an odd argument still, since you would effectively be claiming that the 5DmkIII or 1DX are operating in a lower class too.

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TrojMacReady
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Re: Nikon colour
In reply to phiri, Nov 14, 2012

phiri wrote:

TrojMacReady wrote:

phiri wrote:

Amateur Sony Shooter wrote:

It's interesting to see I am not alone with option of "Nikon Colour". I used D300 and D7000 for more than a few occasions and compare to Sony files I can't stand their colour: dull, lack of shadow details while highlight got clipping away at the same time. Yes Nikon has less noise but the whole image looks like grayscale with colour overlay.

As for A99, I wish it's priced at $2500 instead of $2800, maybe Sony will lower its price soon since everyone is complaining it's higher price point. If you already have sizeable A-mount FF lenses these few hundreds won't matter that much. My personal prediction for A99's score card is solid above 80 points, at least silver award. Not that I care anyway since I already bought A99.

Out of the box, Nikon tends to be conservative with its picture styles. If tou shoot jpeg, you can create your own profiles and load them into the camera or you can adjust picture settings. Fr a raw shooter like me who prefers to shoot with uniwb and custom neutral profile, i can worry about that in post. This thing about colors is funny though

The person you replied to is a RAW shooter, so I assume this was about RAW output. And while you can create your own profiles, colour response and especially separation are hard and sometimes impossible to counter through profiles after the fact. People who help create RAW converters can tell you all about it (Iliah Borg for example).

I understand that very well but honestly if we go to the studio samples and assess red, blue, green and whatever colors, will we get this sense that the a99 has much better colors the rest of the FF cameras?

Maybe, maybe not. If your point is that the differences seen from Nikon cameras in general (most visible in the center faces) are easily countered by profiling, you'd in effect be questioning the capabilities of the Adobe people to correctly profile Nikon cameras in general. Or most converter makers for that matter.

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texascbx
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Re: Nikon D600 gold award
In reply to rob asnong, Nov 14, 2012

I read the whole review and the Nikon sounds like it deserves it's gold. The price and features make it so. Sony never really competes toe to toe with other camera manufacturers on price anyway. I would spend the extra money on the Sony, but that Nikon is a nice cam.

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phiri
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Re: Nikon colour
In reply to TrojMacReady, Nov 14, 2012

TrojMacReady wrote:

phiri wrote:

TrojMacReady wrote:

phiri wrote:

Amateur Sony Shooter wrote:

It's interesting to see I am not alone with option of "Nikon Colour". I used D300 and D7000 for more than a few occasions and compare to Sony files I can't stand their colour: dull, lack of shadow details while highlight got clipping away at the same time. Yes Nikon has less noise but the whole image looks like grayscale with colour overlay.

As for A99, I wish it's priced at $2500 instead of $2800, maybe Sony will lower its price soon since everyone is complaining it's higher price point. If you already have sizeable A-mount FF lenses these few hundreds won't matter that much. My personal prediction for A99's score card is solid above 80 points, at least silver award. Not that I care anyway since I already bought A99.

Out of the box, Nikon tends to be conservative with its picture styles. If tou shoot jpeg, you can create your own profiles and load them into the camera or you can adjust picture settings. Fr a raw shooter like me who prefers to shoot with uniwb and custom neutral profile, i can worry about that in post. This thing about colors is funny though

The person you replied to is a RAW shooter, so I assume this was about RAW output. And while you can create your own profiles, colour response and especially separation are hard and sometimes impossible to counter through profiles after the fact. People who help create RAW converters can tell you all about it (Iliah Borg for example).

I understand that very well but honestly if we go to the studio samples and assess red, blue, green and whatever colors, will we get this sense that the a99 has much better colors the rest of the FF cameras?

Maybe, maybe not. If your point is that the differences seen from Nikon cameras in general (most visible in the center faces) are easily countered by profiling, you'd in effect be questioning the capabilities of the Adobe people to correctly profile Nikon cameras in general. Or most converter makers for that matter.

The truth is I have been wondering why people complain of Nikon's skin tones because I was not countering the same thing. Then I figured out that most use adobe photoshop and I use Nikon's own Capture NX2. Those who have used both attest to the differences in rendering. I have used lightroom just a bit in trial version but had problems with getting correct rendering of the files. So in short adobe renders the colors a ilttle bit different but of course that is the program that most people use so the concern could be understandable. So yes, the conversion in adobe products is not the same as Nikon's own converter

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fjbyrne
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Agreed. A99 looks excellent IMO.
In reply to TrojMacReady, Nov 14, 2012

TrojMacReady wrote:

NPPhoto wrote:

I have slobered enough over both those cameras and while the D600 is a good camera, it feels clumsy in the hands. There is no articulating screen, MFA, etc. The A99 has come a long way in terms of high iso but it is still a stop or stop'n'half behind the D600. But, there are numerous other pro friendly features in the A99 that should land it the gold award. Not that I care but it should. It is a beautiful handling camera and does not feel clumsy at all.

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Nick P

Just wondering, what's the 1 to 1.5 stops based on? I don't see it in the comparisons posted (which show closer to half a stop).

I agree.  I am very impressed by the A99's showing in the comparison.

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Photostyle
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Nikon D600 same sensor as A99 but ...
In reply to Karl Scharf, Nov 14, 2012

It seems again proven that Sony make the best sensors, but that Nikon can put better images out of that sensor then Sony !!!

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/a99-raw-comparison-with-other-ff-cameras-220-euro-less-for-the-a99-in-uk/

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