Nikon D600 gold award

Started Nov 13, 2012 | Discussions
sensibill
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Re: Nikon D600 gold award
In reply to philbot, Nov 13, 2012

philbot wrote:

The D600 is in a class of its own, I suspect the A99 will be in the D800 class as far as DPreview scores are concerned, and thus I'd expect it will not get gold for the EVF and 1/3 stop SLT loss...

But I think for the money, the D600 deserves it's score!

A57 got gold with EVF and 1/3 stop SLT loss...

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Amateur Sony Shooter
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Re: Nikon colour
In reply to Bobby72, Nov 13, 2012

It's interesting to see I am not alone with option of "Nikon Colour". I used D300 and D7000 for more than a few occasions and compare to Sony files I can't stand their colour: dull, lack of shadow details while highlight got clipping away at the same time. Yes Nikon has less noise but the whole image looks like grayscale with colour overlay.

As for A99, I wish it's priced at $2500 instead of $2800, maybe Sony will lower its price soon since everyone is complaining it's higher price point. If you already have sizeable A-mount FF lenses these few hundreds won't matter that much. My personal prediction for A99's score card is solid above 80 points, at least silver award. Not that I care anyway since I already bought A99.

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Bobby72
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Re: Nikon D600 gold award
In reply to phiri, Nov 13, 2012

phiri wrote:

Bobby72 wrote:

What does an award say. At the end it is always about your own opinion. What is the critera of the test? Nikon is a brand in cameras with a big reputation. But live goes on and development in cameras as well. Critera should change as well. Wenn I see the image of a Nikon and I compare it with the A99 image, for me it is a big difference. When I use my Samsung PS64D8000 with a full silver hdmi cable from Audioquest the difference in dynamic is huge between these two brands. You would be blind if you would not see it. Even for free I would not want to use the Nikon D600. Why? It is for me ( yes it is always personal) very simple why the A99 is better. It is sharper, colours are stronger and the ove rwhole it is a lot more dynamic. You need a screen what can show it to you. When I would do the test I never could give the Nikon ( I used Nikon for over 6 years) an golden award. Because I am aware of the less dynamic colours and less depth compared to the A99. I am a person who is always only interested in the best at the moment. Brand I really don't care. I want the best. I want maximum emotion in my image and in my video. At this moment only a Sony A99 can do this. Sometimes things are very simple in life!

How are you viewing these pictures? Are they out of picture jpegs? How was your tv calibrated? I have the same tv calibrated with both a spectro and tristimulus color analyser. However, for photos, i prefer my wide gamut monitor which is calibrated to adobe rgb standard. Srgb is just too narrow for me to appreciate color saturation and DR. However, if a99 ticks all the right boxes for you, who is another person to say something to the contrary? Enjoy it as much as you can

Tomorrow I will send an email to someone who own's a Nikon D800. He works for Nikon here in the Netherlands. I want to do a shoot with him against the A99. With a tripod. I will send the pictures to Dpreview. I hope to inform you soon.

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philbot
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Re: Nikon D600 gold award
In reply to sensibill, Nov 13, 2012

sensibill wrote:

philbot wrote:

The D600 is in a class of its own, I suspect the A99 will be in the D800 class as far as DPreview scores are concerned, and thus I'd expect it will not get gold for the EVF and 1/3 stop SLT loss...

But I think for the money, the D600 deserves it's score!

A57 got gold with EVF and 1/3 stop SLT loss...

In an aps-c camera, the large EVF didn't get much flak, however in the full frame arena where it competes with bright/large OVFs, I hear far more debate over the subject, so I am expecting dpreview to mirror this.

I prefer EVF myself, but my gut feeling is dpreview will sit on the fence with it, but will mark the camera down due to the increased noise..

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TrojMacReady
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Re: Nikon D600 gold award
In reply to shady1991, Nov 13, 2012

shady1991 wrote:

I thought DPR only changed shutter speed I didn't think they change lighting level. if thats the case then arguing based on DPR samples makes no sense.

I've said that for a long time. The fact that light levels seems to vary can be seen by comparing cameras like the A77 and A65, which show a clear difference too, with the same shutterspeeds, same sensor and same noise level according to DXOmark.

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phiri
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Re: Nikon D600 gold award
In reply to Bobby72, Nov 13, 2012

Bobby72 wrote:

phiri wrote:

Bobby72 wrote:

What does an award say. At the end it is always about your own opinion. What is the critera of the test? Nikon is a brand in cameras with a big reputation. But live goes on and development in cameras as well. Critera should change as well. Wenn I see the image of a Nikon and I compare it with the A99 image, for me it is a big difference. When I use my Samsung PS64D8000 with a full silver hdmi cable from Audioquest the difference in dynamic is huge between these two brands. You would be blind if you would not see it. Even for free I would not want to use the Nikon D600. Why? It is for me ( yes it is always personal) very simple why the A99 is better. It is sharper, colours are stronger and the ove rwhole it is a lot more dynamic. You need a screen what can show it to you. When I would do the test I never could give the Nikon ( I used Nikon for over 6 years) an golden award. Because I am aware of the less dynamic colours and less depth compared to the A99. I am a person who is always only interested in the best at the moment. Brand I really don't care. I want the best. I want maximum emotion in my image and in my video. At this moment only a Sony A99 can do this. Sometimes things are very simple in life!

How are you viewing these pictures? Are they out of picture jpegs? How was your tv calibrated? I have the same tv calibrated with both a spectro and tristimulus color analyser. However, for photos, i prefer my wide gamut monitor which is calibrated to adobe rgb standard. Srgb is just too narrow for me to appreciate color saturation and DR. However, if a99 ticks all the right boxes for you, who is another person to say something to the contrary? Enjoy it as much as you can

Tomorrow I will send an email to someone who own's a Nikon D800. He works for Nikon here in the Netherlands. I want to do a shoot with him against the A99. With a tripod. I will send the pictures to Dpreview. I hope to inform you soon.

Hey Bobby, that will be cool.

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phiri
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Re: Nikon colour
In reply to Amateur Sony Shooter, Nov 13, 2012

Amateur Sony Shooter wrote:

It's interesting to see I am not alone with option of "Nikon Colour". I used D300 and D7000 for more than a few occasions and compare to Sony files I can't stand their colour: dull, lack of shadow details while highlight got clipping away at the same time. Yes Nikon has less noise but the whole image looks like grayscale with colour overlay.

As for A99, I wish it's priced at $2500 instead of $2800, maybe Sony will lower its price soon since everyone is complaining it's higher price point. If you already have sizeable A-mount FF lenses these few hundreds won't matter that much. My personal prediction for A99's score card is solid above 80 points, at least silver award. Not that I care anyway since I already bought A99.

Out of the box, Nikon tends to be conservative with its picture styles. If tou shoot jpeg, you can create your own profiles and load them into the camera or you can adjust picture settings. Fr a raw shooter like me who prefers to shoot with uniwb and custom neutral profile, i can worry about that in post. This thing about colors is funny though

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TrojMacReady
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Re: Nikon colour
In reply to phiri, Nov 13, 2012

phiri wrote:

Amateur Sony Shooter wrote:

It's interesting to see I am not alone with option of "Nikon Colour". I used D300 and D7000 for more than a few occasions and compare to Sony files I can't stand their colour: dull, lack of shadow details while highlight got clipping away at the same time. Yes Nikon has less noise but the whole image looks like grayscale with colour overlay.

As for A99, I wish it's priced at $2500 instead of $2800, maybe Sony will lower its price soon since everyone is complaining it's higher price point. If you already have sizeable A-mount FF lenses these few hundreds won't matter that much. My personal prediction for A99's score card is solid above 80 points, at least silver award. Not that I care anyway since I already bought A99.

Out of the box, Nikon tends to be conservative with its picture styles. If tou shoot jpeg, you can create your own profiles and load them into the camera or you can adjust picture settings. Fr a raw shooter like me who prefers to shoot with uniwb and custom neutral profile, i can worry about that in post. This thing about colors is funny though

The person you replied to is a RAW shooter, so I assume this was about RAW output. And while you can create your own profiles, colour response and especially separation are hard and sometimes impossible to counter through profiles after the fact. People who help create RAW converters can tell you all about it (Iliah Borg for example).

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brian14478
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Re: Nikon D600 gold award
In reply to Karl Scharf, Nov 13, 2012

33/37/55/57/65/77...97..98..99.......a100!!!!!less than seven years?how many 'milestones?how many bodies sold for nickels?´╗┐

just a different perspective on it all...who cares really if it does the deed?though shooting bats at night under moonlight would be pretty wild wouldnt it?peace and good captures,brian

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Bobby72
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Re: Nikon D600 gold award
In reply to Bobby72, Nov 13, 2012

Bobby72 wrote:

phiri wrote:

Bobby72 wrote:

What does an award say. At the end it is always about your own opinion. What is the critera of the test? Nikon is a brand in cameras with a big reputation. But live goes on and development in cameras as well. Critera should change as well. Wenn I see the image of a Nikon and I compare it with the A99 image, for me it is a big difference. When I use my Samsung PS64D8000 with a full silver hdmi cable from Audioquest the difference in dynamic is huge between these two brands. You would be blind if you would not see it. Even for free I would not want to use the Nikon D600. Why? It is for me ( yes it is always personal) very simple why the A99 is better. It is sharper, colours are stronger and the ove rwhole it is a lot more dynamic. You need a screen what can show it to you. When I would do the test I never could give the Nikon ( I used Nikon for over 6 years) an golden award. Because I am aware of the less dynamic colours and less depth compared to the A99. I am a person who is always only interested in the best at the moment. Brand I really don't care. I want the best. I want maximum emotion in my image and in my video. At this moment only a Sony A99 can do this. Sometimes things are very simple in life!

How are you viewing these pictures? Are they out of picture jpegs? How was your tv calibrated? I have the same tv calibrated with both a spectro and tristimulus color analyser. However, for photos, i prefer my wide gamut monitor which is calibrated to adobe rgb standard. Srgb is just too narrow for me to appreciate color saturation and DR. However, if a99 ticks all the right boxes for you, who is another person to say something to the contrary? Enjoy it as much as you can

Tomorrow I will send an email to someone who own's a Nikon D800. He works for Nikon here in the Netherlands. I want to do a shoot with him against the A99. With a tripod. I will send the pictures to Dpreview. I hope to inform you soon.

What I do is watching high resolution pictures  (6000x4000) with the Diamond hdmi. Just buy it, it gives you so much more information of pictures and videos. Black are a lot more black, 3D in a picture has more depth with this cable. I save pictures of cameras in high resolution and watch these on my Samsung plasma. After some time you see a pattern. You realize that there is a big difference in how A sony 99 makes a picture compared to a Nikon. Nikon pictures are good. But it never blows me away as the A99 does. I will invite some people with Nikon D800 to show them what dynamic and 3d in a picture is.

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steelhead3
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Re: Nikon D600 gold award
In reply to Karl Scharf, Nov 13, 2012

Everyone here is comparing the 99 and the 600; this by price point is not correct.  The d800 and 5 mk 3 are its competition.  The 99 will be marked down for its EVF for sports and the apc array of its AF.  Its P&S abilities in JPEG will not gain it points on this level of competition.  I am wondering how its predictive AF will compare to the other 2 cameras ( I hope well).  It is a given that its ISO abilities will be found lacking with the competition.  Here is hoping for the silver.

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hdkhang
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Re: Nikon D600 gold award
In reply to Bobby72, Nov 14, 2012

Bobby72 wrote:

Bobby72 wrote:

phiri wrote:

Bobby72 wrote:

What does an award say. At the end it is always about your own opinion. What is the critera of the test? Nikon is a brand in cameras with a big reputation. But live goes on and development in cameras as well. Critera should change as well. Wenn I see the image of a Nikon and I compare it with the A99 image, for me it is a big difference. When I use my Samsung PS64D8000 with a full silver hdmi cable from Audioquest the difference in dynamic is huge between these two brands. You would be blind if you would not see it. Even for free I would not want to use the Nikon D600. Why? It is for me ( yes it is always personal) very simple why the A99 is better. It is sharper, colours are stronger and the ove rwhole it is a lot more dynamic. You need a screen what can show it to you. When I would do the test I never could give the Nikon ( I used Nikon for over 6 years) an golden award. Because I am aware of the less dynamic colours and less depth compared to the A99. I am a person who is always only interested in the best at the moment. Brand I really don't care. I want the best. I want maximum emotion in my image and in my video. At this moment only a Sony A99 can do this. Sometimes things are very simple in life!

How are you viewing these pictures? Are they out of picture jpegs? How was your tv calibrated? I have the same tv calibrated with both a spectro and tristimulus color analyser. However, for photos, i prefer my wide gamut monitor which is calibrated to adobe rgb standard. Srgb is just too narrow for me to appreciate color saturation and DR. However, if a99 ticks all the right boxes for you, who is another person to say something to the contrary? Enjoy it as much as you can

Tomorrow I will send an email to someone who own's a Nikon D800. He works for Nikon here in the Netherlands. I want to do a shoot with him against the A99. With a tripod. I will send the pictures to Dpreview. I hope to inform you soon.

What I do is watching high resolution pictures (6000x4000) with the Diamond hdmi. Just buy it, it gives you so much more information of pictures and videos. Black are a lot more black, 3D in a picture has more depth with this cable. I save pictures of cameras in high resolution and watch these on my Samsung plasma. After some time you see a pattern. You realize that there is a big difference in how A sony 99 makes a picture compared to a Nikon. Nikon pictures are good. But it never blows me away as the A99 does. I will invite some people with Nikon D800 to show them what dynamic and 3d in a picture is.

Nonsense. HDMI is digital, if the image is changing as a result of your cables, then you have faulty cables.

Secondly, Dynamic and 3D is all about the combination of camera, lens, post processing and photographer. Unless you are taking identical photos under identical conditions and processing them to the same output, then you are just comparing random photos that you like based on a bias or preference for one camera over another.

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Ionian
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Re: Nikon D600 gold award
In reply to Bobby72, Nov 14, 2012

Bobby72 wrote:

I want maximum emotion in my image and in my video. At this moment only a Sony A99 can do this.

Um, yeah, you're getting this wrong. Emotion in your images and video is supposed to come from you and how you present your content. But keep chasing that silver bullet...

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remylebeau
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Re: Nikon D600 gold award
In reply to Karl Scharf, Nov 14, 2012

Karl Scharf wrote:

DPREVIEW just posted its review of the Nikon D600 that has the same sensor as the Sony A99:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/11/13/nikon-d600-review-posted

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Karl Scharf >>> ( Sony SLT-A77, Rokinon 8mm, Sigma 10-20 f4.0-5.6, Sigma 18-250 f3.5-6.3, Sigma 50-500 f4.5-6.3 OS, Minolta 70-210 f4.0, Minolta 50 f1.7, Kenko 1.4x DGX ) <<<

I'm pretty stoked they actually compared JPG and RAW performance with shots of the a99. At least they're in the process of reviewing that camera. I haven't seen much from DXO in terms of reviewing any of the newer cameras

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j0hna7oo
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It's sony sensor again?
In reply to Karl Scharf, Nov 14, 2012

Karl Scharf wrote:

DPREVIEW just posted its review of the Nikon D600 that has the same sensor as the Sony A99:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/11/13/nikon-d600-review-posted

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Karl Scharf >>> ( Sony SLT-A77, Rokinon 8mm, Sigma 10-20 f4.0-5.6, Sigma 18-250 f3.5-6.3, Sigma 50-500 f4.5-6.3 OS, Minolta 70-210 f4.0, Minolta 50 f1.7, Kenko 1.4x DGX ) <<<

When people keep repeating that it's a sony sensor it's sony sensor, it will just remind me that somehow sony make worse body.

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GuyMcKie
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Re: All very close
In reply to Karl Scharf, Nov 14, 2012

All current FF's are very close in performance at high iso. And reconverting the high iso files from the previous generation with the current software brings them within one stop.

It gives me the impression that better bayer interpolation and better raw conversion is the main reason for the progress.

It is interesting to see which properties will be decisive for the success of a camera. Price, reliability and build quality, better video and is, support, system or just the existing userbase?

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winedarksea
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Re: Although I think the D600 is 1 or 1.5 stops better than the A99, I'd still give it Silver...
In reply to TrojMacReady, Nov 14, 2012

Up to half a stop in high-iso performance at the most; and otherwise much closer. I believe that the A99 will get a fine DXO score, perhaps a surprising one.

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Ralf B
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D600 price point ...
In reply to Karl Scharf, Nov 14, 2012

Oil on the sensor, a dim viewfinder put to shame by the a900/a850 OVF, and an all-plastic build according to iFixit's tear-down:

D600 all plastic

The D600 LCD not only does not fold out, it is actually fused to the rear case, and cannot be swapped without replacing the entire back of the camera. The D600 looks like an entry level body with an FF sensor slapped in. It will surely find its market.

While the a99 price of 2800 $ / Euro is too close to the current D800 street prices IMHO, the D600 price point appears as justified at first glance - until you remember what price point the a850 was sold at.

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Ralf B
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Nikon D600 price point
In reply to Karl Scharf, Nov 14, 2012

Oil on the sensor, a dim viewfinder put to shame by the a900/a850 OVF, and an all-plastic build according to iFixit's tear-down:

D600 mostly plastic

The D600 LCD not only does not fold out, it is actually fused to the rear case, and cannot be swapped without replacing the entire back of the camera. The D600 looks like an entry level body with an FF sensor slapped in. It will surely find its market.

While the a99 price of 2800 $ / Euro is too close to the current D800 street prices IMHO, the D600 price point appears as justified at first glance - until you remember what price point the a850 was sold at.

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Shield3
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Re: It's sony sensor again?
In reply to j0hna7oo, Nov 14, 2012

j0hna7oo wrote:

Karl Scharf wrote:

DPREVIEW just posted its review of the Nikon D600 that has the same sensor as the Sony A99:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/11/13/nikon-d600-review-posted

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When people keep repeating that it's a sony sensor it's sony sensor, it will just remind me that somehow sony make worse body.

What's worse about the body?  The pesky fully articulating 3 way axis LCD?  The much lighter weight magnesium alloy weather sealed portion?  The front silent multi-controller?  The convenient quick access to AF/MF/AEL/ISO/WB/Flash +/- ?

I don't want to lug a big brick around with a fixed crappy screen that will *NEVER* autofocus in video mode.

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