Converting to Black and White - advice please

Started Nov 13, 2012 | Discussions
Doug MacArthur
Regular MemberPosts: 117
Like?
Converting to Black and White - advice please
Nov 13, 2012

I have Photoshop CS 6 working with raw images. What is the best way to convert to black and white? Is simply using greyscale OK?

JS55
New MemberPosts: 19
Like?
Re: Converting to Black and White - advice please
In reply to Doug MacArthur, Nov 13, 2012

Simply converting to grey scale will not give you a realistic BW conversion IMO and will leave you with flat images most of the time. I would create a grey scale channel mixer adjustment layer in PS or use the HSL grey scale in ACR. Either option will allow you to have complete control over the colour to BW conversion.

Cheers

Jay

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
plantdoc
Senior MemberPosts: 1,844
Like?
Re: Converting to Black and White - advice please
In reply to Doug MacArthur, Nov 13, 2012

Try the B&W plugin from Topaz Labs. Inexpensive, free trial, and has just about every adjustment I could imagine most people would need.

Greg

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
DuaneV
Senior MemberPosts: 1,088
Like?
Re: Converting to Black and White - advice please
In reply to plantdoc, Nov 13, 2012

Yup.  I LOVE my Topaz B&W plugin.  LOTS of options, and I got it on sale for like $35 bucks.  Cant beat that.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Sal Baker
Veteran MemberPosts: 7,343Gear list
Like?
Re: Converting to Black and White - advice please
In reply to Doug MacArthur, Nov 14, 2012

I highly, HIGHLY, recommend Nik Silver Efex Pro2.  The control point technology is a breakthrough.  You can download a free trial version.  Check out the on-demand video webinars conducted by various pros showing how the plug-in work for them.

The other Nik plug-ins can also prep your color files for even better B/W tonality and rendering.  I use the entire suite constantly.

Sal

 Sal Baker's gear list:Sal Baker's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EOS 350D Fujifilm X-E2 Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM +5 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Dave Jaseck
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,058Gear list
Like?
Greg Gorman B&W conversion
In reply to Doug MacArthur, Nov 14, 2012

If you want quick method, this is as good as a neutral Nik Sliver which I have.  I have made an photoshop action out of his method and if you would like a copy send me an email.  I think it will work in CS6.  email me at: djaseck@mi.rr.com

-- hide signature --

www.pbase.com/davidjaseck
http://www.pbase.com/davidjaseck/image/112520927/small.jpg
Be careful how you interpret the world: It is like that.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Bali_Mirage
Regular MemberPosts: 284
Like?
Re: Converting to Black and White - advice please
In reply to Doug MacArthur, Nov 14, 2012

You can download free presets for use in ACR from OnOne.......

http://www.ononesoftware.com/products/perfect-presets-camera-raw/

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
ML_Digital_nYc
Junior MemberPosts: 46
Like?
Re: Converting to Black and White - advice please
In reply to Doug MacArthur, Nov 15, 2012

Some tips...

Always process in color, then bring your image into photoshop and use adjustment layers above your image to turn your image into a greyscale. There will be a day when you may have done some retouching to one of your images, and say I wish I had this image in color.

-A great technique for portraits, especially images that were shot well with lighting, is the place a hue/sat adjustment layer a the top most layer, set to -100...completely desaturation the image in appearance only. Then add a curve adjustment layer underneath that hue/sat adjustment, and apply a very steep "S" curve to the R & B channels. Of course each image will need fine tuning. But  this method spikes the green and reds in your image to create a very contrasty look... you could make a person look as if they're coated in paint or some sort of shiny silver makeup if you go far enough. But that's up to your taste!

-Fast Eddie

-- hide signature --

Your favorite retoucher's favorite retoucher.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
NBDR
Regular MemberPosts: 270
Like?
Fast Eddie Black and White method is great
In reply to ML_Digital_nYc, Nov 17, 2012

ML_Digital_nYc wrote:

A great technique for portraits, especially images that were shot well with lighting, is the place a hue/sat adjustment layer a the top most layer, set to -100...completely desaturation the image in appearance only. Then add a curve adjustment layer underneath that hue/sat adjustment, and apply a very steep "S" curve to the R & B channels.

-Fast Eddie

-- hide signature --

Your favorite retoucher's favorite retoucher.

For a little more flexibility I used a BW adjustment layer instead of Hue/Sat adjustment layer with Sat = -100, but an excellent concept and implementation regardless. Great results and suggestion. Thanks.

-- hide signature --

'Live for today, but plan for tomorrow.'

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
NBDR
Regular MemberPosts: 270
Like?
check out George Jardine video
In reply to Doug MacArthur, Nov 18, 2012

Doug MacArthur wrote:

I have Photoshop CS 6 working with raw images. What is the best way to convert to black and white? Is simply using greyscale OK?

I just rediscovered an excellent ~ 35 min (free) video tutorial by George Jardine on converting to BW using ACR or Lightroom. The first part of the video compares various color to BW methods using Photoshop. Very informative content for beginner through intermediate users;

See http://mulita.com/blog/?p=1244

-- hide signature --

'Live for today, but plan for tomorrow.'

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
MurryG
Senior MemberPosts: 2,598Gear list
Like?
Re: Converting to Black and White - advice please
In reply to Doug MacArthur, Nov 18, 2012

Mark Johnson's workbence 356 should be of interest to you:

http://www.msjphotography.com/index.php/category/photoshop-workbench/

Murry

 MurryG's gear list:MurryG's gear list
Canon PowerShot SX50 HS
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Allen Gerdes
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,072
Like?
Re: Converting to Black and White - advice please
In reply to Doug MacArthur, Nov 18, 2012

I have used all of the normal techniques in the past, but lately almost always use the Topaz B/W plugin.  It offers great control and gives excellent results.

Regards....Allen

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
AMAllan
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,894
Like?
Doug, this might help...
In reply to Doug MacArthur, Nov 19, 2012
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
JulesJ
Forum ProPosts: 30,566
Like?
Re: Converting to Black and White - advice please
In reply to ML_Digital_nYc, Nov 20, 2012

ML_Digital_nYc wrote:

Some tips...

Always process in color, then bring your image into photoshop and use adjustment layers above your image to turn your image into a greyscale. There will be a day when you may have done some retouching to one of your images, and say I wish I had this image in color.

-A great technique for portraits, especially images that were shot well with lighting, is the place a hue/sat adjustment layer a the top most layer, set to -100...completely desaturation the image in appearance only. Then add a curve adjustment layer underneath that hue/sat adjustment, and apply a very steep "S" curve to the R & B channels. Of course each image will need fine tuning. But this method spikes the green and reds in your image to create a very contrasty look... you could make a person look as if they're coated in paint or some sort of shiny silver makeup if you go far enough. But that's up to your taste!

-Fast Eddie

-- hide signature --

Your favorite retoucher's favorite retoucher.

I'm amazed all you guys suggest anything but using the tool designed for this in CS5 and 6. It's in the adjustment layers and unsurprisingly called Black and White. But before you do that open a curves adjustment layer and a levels adjustment layer just as you would with any photo. Using these three layers you can get a B&W conversion as good as you will ever get with third party plugins. Master the use of these adjustment layers and you need nothing else. If people are in your image then try the Red and Yellow sliders and the B&W layer.

Our business specialises in B&W portraits and prints, apart from general retouching and spotting those three layers are 90% of the time all I need for the B&W conversion.

Jules

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
ML_Digital_nYc
Junior MemberPosts: 46
Like?
Re: Converting to Black and White - advice please
In reply to JulesJ, Nov 20, 2012

You just repeated everything I said, but threw in a Levels adjustment layer for kicks!

_Fast Eddie

-- hide signature --

Your favorite retoucher's favorite retoucher.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
JulesJ
Forum ProPosts: 30,566
Like?
Re: Converting to Black and White - advice please
In reply to ML_Digital_nYc, Nov 20, 2012

ML_Digital_nYc wrote:

You just repeated everything I said, but threw in a Levels adjustment layer for kicks!

_Fast Eddie

-- hide signature --

Your favorite retoucher's favorite retoucher.

Except you used Hue and Sat whereas I used the B&W channel and you didn't use Levels. So yes, one third (the Curves) of what I do is the same as what you do. The B&W channel is very powerful and more so than the Hue and Sat I believe in this case, and is.....why it's there!

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
ML_Digital_nYc
Junior MemberPosts: 46
Like?
Re: Converting to Black and White - advice please
In reply to JulesJ, Nov 20, 2012

I'm just messing with ya!

-- hide signature --

Your favorite retoucher's favorite retoucher.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
NBDR
Regular MemberPosts: 270
Like?
No "one best method" for converting from color to BW
In reply to JulesJ, Nov 20, 2012

JulesJ wrote:

ML_Digital_nYc wrote:

Some tips...

Always process in color, then bring your image into photoshop and use adjustment layers above your image to turn your image into a greyscale. There will be a day when you may have done some retouching to one of your images, and say I wish I had this image in color.

-A great technique for portraits, especially images that were shot well with lighting, is the place a hue/sat adjustment layer a the top most layer, set to -100...completely desaturation the image in appearance only. Then add a curve adjustment layer underneath that hue/sat adjustment, and apply a very steep "S" curve to the R & B channels. Of course each image will need fine tuning. But this method spikes the green and reds in your image to create a very contrasty look... you could make a person look as if they're coated in paint or some sort of shiny silver makeup if you go far enough. But that's up to your taste!

-Fast Eddie

-- hide signature --

Your favorite retoucher's favorite retoucher.

I'm amazed all you guys suggest anything but using the tool designed for this in CS5 and 6. It's in the adjustment layers and unsurprisingly called Black and White. But before you do that open a curves adjustment layer and a levels adjustment layer just as you would with any photo. Using these three layers you can get a B&W conversion as good as you will ever get with third party plugins. Master the use of these adjustment layers and you need nothing else. If people are in your image then try the Red and Yellow sliders and the B&W layer.

Our business specialises in B&W portraits and prints, apart from general retouching and spotting those three layers are 90% of the time all I need for the B&W conversion.

Jules

I think it's fair to say that there are a number of ways to convert color --> BW using Photoshop, e.g., grayscale, desaturate command, desat via Hue/Sat adjustment, isolating individual RGB channels as layers, channel mixer (monochrome), L channel, BW adjustment layer, gradients, dual hue/sat adjustment layers (Dr. Brown method), Kent's hue/sat + selective color method, calculations command and ACR, not to mention (but I will) numerous combinations of adjustment layers recorded as actions or not.

The method one should/could use is somewhat dependent on source image characteristics and artistic or commerrcial intent, as well as "How much time is one willing to spend tinkering to get the final result." In other words it's a matter of taste, intent and/or time.

NIK Silver Efex Pro may be overkill for some commercial portrait styles (I don't know; portraits are not my thing), but I sure like SEP for scenics. While I like Topaz plugins in general, I never use their BW offering any more.

Recently I have begun using ACR's grayscale functionalty (I like ACR's 8 color sliders vs. 6 in BW adjustment layers, plus ACRs other controls) and opening in PS as a Smart Object to retain adjustment layer-like tweaking flexibility.

One thing we can all probably agree on: One can almost always do better than a grayscale or desaturate conversion.

-- hide signature --

'Live for today, but plan for tomorrow.'

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
JulesJ
Forum ProPosts: 30,566
Like?
Re: No "one best method" for converting from color to BW
In reply to NBDR, Nov 20, 2012

NBDR wrote:

JulesJ wrote:

ML_Digital_nYc wrote:

Some tips...

Always process in color, then bring your image into photoshop and use adjustment layers above your image to turn your image into a greyscale. There will be a day when you may have done some retouching to one of your images, and say I wish I had this image in color.

-A great technique for portraits, especially images that were shot well with lighting, is the place a hue/sat adjustment layer a the top most layer, set to -100...completely desaturation the image in appearance only. Then add a curve adjustment layer underneath that hue/sat adjustment, and apply a very steep "S" curve to the R & B channels. Of course each image will need fine tuning. But this method spikes the green and reds in your image to create a very contrasty look... you could make a person look as if they're coated in paint or some sort of shiny silver makeup if you go far enough. But that's up to your taste!

-Fast Eddie

-- hide signature --

Your favorite retoucher's favorite retoucher.

I'm amazed all you guys suggest anything but using the tool designed for this in CS5 and 6. It's in the adjustment layers and unsurprisingly called Black and White. But before you do that open a curves adjustment layer and a levels adjustment layer just as you would with any photo. Using these three layers you can get a B&W conversion as good as you will ever get with third party plugins. Master the use of these adjustment layers and you need nothing else. If people are in your image then try the Red and Yellow sliders and the B&W layer.

Our business specialises in B&W portraits and prints, apart from general retouching and spotting those three layers are 90% of the time all I need for the B&W conversion.

Jules

I think it's fair to say that there are a number of ways to convert color --> BW using Photoshop, e.g., grayscale, desaturate command, desat via Hue/Sat adjustment, isolating individual RGB channels as layers, channel mixer (monochrome), L channel, BW adjustment layer, gradients, dual hue/sat adjustment layers (Dr. Brown method), Kent's hue/sat + selective color method, calculations command and ACR, not to mention (but I will) numerous combinations of adjustment layers recorded as actions or not.

The method one should/could use is somewhat dependent on source image characteristics and artistic or commerrcial intent, as well as "How much time is one willing to spend tinkering to get the final result." In other words it's a matter of taste, intent and/or time.

NIK Silver Efex Pro may be overkill for some commercial portrait styles (I don't know; portraits are not my thing), but I sure like SEP for scenics. While I like Topaz plugins in general, I never use their BW offering any more.

Recently I have begun using ACR's grayscale functionalty (I like ACR's 8 color sliders vs. 6 in BW adjustment layers, plus ACRs other controls) and opening in PS as a Smart Object to retain adjustment layer-like tweaking flexibility.

One thing we can all probably agree on: One can almost always do better than a grayscale or desaturate conversion.

-- hide signature --

'Live for today, but plan for tomorrow.'

I did a photoshop course about seven years ago at the Photography Workshops in Rockport Maine given by John Paul Caponigro, a PS guru. He then taught us that Desaturation and Grayscale were probably the worst ways to convert to B&W. He was right.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads