A new but somehow old Topic - IQ of X-E1 ? Is it really there?

Started Nov 12, 2012 | Discussions
EyeOTBeholder
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A new but somehow old Topic - IQ of X-E1 ? Is it really there?
Nov 12, 2012

Hi all,

Thank you all for all these precious information and opininons. They helped me much.

I have been following quite anything which have been posted about X-E1 since the first launch in Photokina this year including test videos, flickr streams, test reports, samples in DPR etc.What an inspiring camera! That's what I want to believe so far, but...

The IQs from X-Pro 1 and X-E1 are in several postings and tests compared with the IQ of full frame SLRs, like Canon 5D MKxxx, Nikon D700-800-600 etc. is for me subject to question! I had the chance to view some original files from these dSLRs in the passed years and they were mostly, if made by the right photographer(very important), outstanding in terms of light sensitivity, colors and feeling. Especially those from Eos 5D series...

I can say I viewed quite a big percentage of the photos shot by X-E1 in the www until now and I must comfess, I allways need to search for some better samples in this bunch of 'for me rather' average results. I hardly find some stunning results. I am not talking about high iSO etc. These are stunning, no question! But this crispy sharpness, and simply said, the beatiful natural light which should be recorded on this very promising sensor...I'm lacking this so far!

I am not a profi photographer or post processor which mostly deals with the very pixels, DR, chromatic abbr. etc. I am interested rather for the capability of the camera to catch the light and shadows and atmosphere...

X-E1 would be the perfect camera for me because I don't have the funds for full frames and it also annoys me to carry these monsters in volume all around my neck and heavy bags.

But I couldn't decide to order it yet: Please help me with your thoughts

Maybe a little help in terms of what I understand from photography is to see here

EyeOTBeholder Flickr Stream

Thanks in advance

Murad

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Ryan Williams
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Re: A new but somehow old Topic - IQ of X-E1 ? Is it really there?
In reply to EyeOTBeholder, Nov 12, 2012
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cheddargav
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Re: Ryan, this one...
In reply to Ryan Williams, Nov 12, 2012

...show's beautiful colours and "pop", and surely what the OP is looking for, an image that really shows off what this excellent combo can produce  (plus I love the cheekiness of it!)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/f_l_e_t_c_h/8111680630/in/set-72157631812572248/

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baobob
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Re: A new but somehow old Topic - IQ of X-E1 ? Is it really there?
In reply to EyeOTBeholder, Nov 12, 2012

In pure terms of IQ the X Pro1 will give the same than 5D2 or3 I own X Pro1 and 5D2

The french magazine Réponses Photos just compared both X Pro1 and 5D3 and stated that at A3 print size you cannot make the difference

THAT SAID:

The image size is much wider with the canon FF 21/22 megapix and allows bettre cropping or very very large prints

OTOH, the X Pro1 IMHO gets a much better rendition in terms of AWB/WB, colors and last but not least much better management of highlights and shadows

This is also the results of a much better DR

One consequence is the production of superb OOC Jpegs

To finish my ciontribution to the debate, fir sport and wildlife  the Fuji cannot follow fast moving targets in terms od tracking

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Ryan Williams
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Re: A new but somehow old Topic - IQ of X-E1 ? Is it really there?
In reply to baobob, Nov 12, 2012

One thing I've noticed when looking at shots from both is that despite the 5D putting out larger photos, the fact that it has an anti-aliasing filter (unlike the X-E1) means there's little if any extra discernible detail. The benefit of a larger resolution is voided, something no other APS-C sensor can lay claim to.

Conversely, one benefit you simply can't equal is that a full frame sensor will have shallower depth of field. Not that the X-E1 doesn't have lovely DOF of course, but it's physically incapable of matching a full frame here.

As for dynamic range and tonality, I think there're more than enough examples that show the X-E1 is easily on equal footing with its bigger competitors. You really don't get much better IQ than this.

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pmaster
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Re: A new but somehow old Topic - IQ of X-E1 ? Is it really there?
In reply to EyeOTBeholder, Nov 12, 2012

I think its probably due to the fact that there are far more professionals using full-frames than X-series cameras. Thus, it is easier to find some really good shots by these pros. Some of these probably include external lighting as well as good pp.

I'm thinking it would be easier if you could show us an example of a full-frame shot you think is very nice, and we can then figure out if indeed it is due to the camera, or simply to the photographer's talent.

Cheers!

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Indulis Bernsteins
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Re: A new but somehow old Topic - IQ of X-E1 ? Is it really there?
In reply to pmaster, Nov 12, 2012

http://forums.dpreview.com/files/t/365ff7ff8a0c4e13ab32a444d7b2ee2e

Make sure your browser is not resizing the image (as it will blur it). Stunning.

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2005magnum
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Re: A new but somehow old Topic - IQ of X-E1 ? Is it really there?
In reply to pmaster, Nov 12, 2012

pmaster wrote:

I think its probably due to the fact that there are far more professionals using full-frames than X-series cameras. Thus, it is easier to find some really good shots by these pros. Some of these probably include external lighting as well as good pp.

I'm thinking it would be easier if you could show us an example of a full-frame shot you think is very nice, and we can then figure out if indeed it is due to the camera, or simply to the photographer's talent.

Cheers!

I absolutely agree with this statement.  There are thousands of very good pros shooting FF DSLRs who are continually promoting their best work on the internet.  There are a few pros shooting X series cameras, but primarily either for personal use or as the occasional back up.  Let's face it, most pros have a lot of money invested in glass, compatible flash, lighting equipment etc.

From the little I have seen, I have no doubt that the X APC sensor cameras have the ability in the right hands of capturing images as good as any FF camera.  I have pre ordered the X-E1.  I have the X10 and the XS1.  I love them both and the images are as good as any entry level DSLR I have ever owned.  I am selling my D800 with several lenses.  I am keeping a D5100 for professional shooting of vacation properties.  I do need the ability to go super wide and the dependability of Nikon flash, but there is absolutely no reason for me to lug around tons of gear when I am seeing excellent images directly out of camera with superb color and the best auto WB I have ever seen.

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skpix
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Re: A new but somehow old Topic - IQ of X-E1 ? Is it really there?
In reply to EyeOTBeholder, Nov 12, 2012

Hi,

I just bought a XE-1 and put it with Zeiss 21mm f/2.8 lens (for Leica - used an adapter)

I found that XE-1 focus peaking is quite helpful, and I think XE-1 could produce high IQ with good lenses on it

For sharpness

This is the cropped size

This is the un-cropped size

I do a little post processing here with Lightroom...

Well, I'm very pleased with my XE-1...

Hope this could help you...

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viking79
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Re: A new but somehow old Topic - IQ of X-E1 ? Is it really there?
In reply to EyeOTBeholder, Nov 12, 2012

Fuji has a very good JPEG engine.  Sensor wise, it is still an APS-C sensor.  A good one, but still APS-C.  It has some trade offs with the lack of AA filter and different color filter array.

Mainly, the 35mm f/1.4 is a very nice lens, and they have a lot of promising lenses coming too.

Eric

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Randy Benter
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Re: A new but somehow old Topic - IQ of X-E1 ? Is it really there?
In reply to Ryan Williams, Nov 12, 2012

Ryan Williams wrote:

One thing I've noticed when looking at shots from both is that despite the 5D putting out larger photos, the fact that it has an anti-aliasing filter (unlike the X-E1) means there's little if any extra discernible detail. The benefit of a larger resolution is voided, something no other APS-C sensor can lay claim to.

There are other APS-C cameras that do not have an AA filter. The Pentax K-5 IIs is one.

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Randy Benter
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Re: A new but somehow old Topic - IQ of X-E1 ? Is it really there?
In reply to skpix, Nov 12, 2012

skpix wrote:

Hi,

I just bought a XE-1 and put it with Zeiss 21mm f/2.8 lens (for Leica - used an adapter)

I found that XE-1 focus peaking is quite helpful, and I think XE-1 could produce high IQ with good lenses on it

The X-E1 does not have focus peaking.

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Delie
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Re: A new but somehow old Topic - IQ of X-E1 ? Is it really there?
In reply to Randy Benter, Nov 12, 2012

Randy Benter wrote:

skpix wrote:

Hi,

I just bought a XE-1 and put it with Zeiss 21mm f/2.8 lens (for Leica - used an adapter)

I found that XE-1 focus peaking is quite helpful, and I think XE-1 could produce high IQ with good lenses on it

The X-E1 does not have focus peaking.

Yeah, i think he's confusing focus peaking (e.g. NEX-7) with the X-E1's manual focus zoom mode (which gives you the ability to magnify the EVF/LCD in manual focus mode in order to check the focus).

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gusse99
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Re: A new but somehow old Topic - IQ of X-E1 ? Is it really there?
In reply to Delie, Nov 12, 2012

I think the ISO performance of the x-trans is a bit overrated. It's good no noubt, but i see the X100 as clearly superior. You can see it even in the dpr comparison chart.

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njb311
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Re: A new but somehow old Topic - IQ of X-E1 ? Is it really there?
In reply to Delie, Nov 12, 2012

Delie wrote:

Randy Benter wrote:

skpix wrote:

Hi,

I just bought a XE-1 and put it with Zeiss 21mm f/2.8 lens (for Leica - used an adapter)

I found that XE-1 focus peaking is quite helpful, and I think XE-1 could produce high IQ with good lenses on it

The X-E1 does not have focus peaking.

Yeah, i think he's confusing focus peaking (e.g. NEX-7) with the X-E1's manual focus zoom mode (which gives you the ability to magnify the EVF/LCD in manual focus mode in order to check the focus).

Yes, focus peeking vs focus peaking!

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Highlander77
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Re: A new but somehow old Topic - IQ of X-E1 ? Is it really there?
In reply to gusse99, Nov 12, 2012

gusse99 wrote:

I think the ISO performance of the x-trans is a bit overrated. It's good no noubt, but i see the X100 as clearly superior. You can see it even in the dpr comparison chart.

This statement is far from the truth. I think that I can speak on behalf of all the x100 and x pro/x-e owners by saying that high ISO of x trans sensor is more than a stop better than the one in x100. Also, if I understood correctly OP prefers to shoot in jpeg mode most of the time, and if that's the case than he'll love the output of an x trans sensor. No scientific tests here but I compared my D700 with my x-e1. During indoor shots the x-e1 consistently had a better metering, DR, WB.....With high iso shots fuji retained the colors perfectly while nikon was quite a bit off. Iso 3200 looked better on fuji than iso 2000 on nikon...again, I'm talking about jpeg here and I understand that it's not a very good comparison but if jpeg is what you shoot than x trans is even better than D700. Having said that, when it comes to AF D700 is leagues ahead of X-e1(most natably when it comes to moving objects).

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viking79
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Re: A new but somehow old Topic - IQ of X-E1 ? Is it really there?
In reply to gusse99, Nov 12, 2012

gusse99 wrote:

Looking at the studio tool i do not think the difference is that dramatic. I only see what looks like more noise reduction smearing on the x-trans chip.

That is what I have noticed too, even in RAW it looks like there is noise reduction done, or at least the camera doesn't respond as well to noise reduction as my other camera.  So if I shoot both at 3200, the X Trans looks better by default, but applying noise reduction and they are pretty similar.

Here is a comparison I did with my NX20, this is in the Samsung forum.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/50183298

I think the XTrans is maybe a bit better, but then again the Sony 16 MP is probably a bit better too.  The bottom line is all are APS-C

I still love my Fuji though, exposure is nice, white balance is pretty good, and maybe I will try doing a few shoots in JPEG with it for the fun of it.

Eric

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Highlander77
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Re: A new but somehow old Topic - IQ of X-E1 ? Is it really there?
In reply to viking79, Nov 12, 2012

Studio tool is fun to play with however I get different results testing the cameras myself.  Also remember that the studio tool uses a perfect lighting. It's one thing to test the cameras high iso under a perfect light but in a dimly lit room each can behave very differently.

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Tom Schum
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More than IQ
In reply to EyeOTBeholder, Nov 12, 2012

I too have a stupendous camera and a bag of lenses for it.

I too have long been tired of lugging all that stuff.

When I bought into Fuji with my X10 because of the overall package and the excellent JPGs I found an alternative:  Not the best possible image quality, but wonderfully convenient to use with minimal (if any) post processing.

So it (as always) depends on what you want.  The X-E1 seems to be offering that same Fuji convenience of use and excellent JPG image, with somewhat higher IQ than I've been getting with my X10.  No I haven't pulled the trigger yet:  I'm waiting a while to see how it does in the USA for at least a couple more months.  I want to avoid being sucked into any sort of X10-style controversy if one should rear its ugly head.

At this point I have a universal zoom for my high end DSLR, mostly for the convenience of it, but it  is still a substantial camera to lug around.  Great pictures out of it, but still a little bigger than I have in mind.

It has been a very good learning experience for me, to acquire and use the DSLR and the bag of lenses, and only because of this have I learned that I prefer something simpler.

My view of the X-E1 is as a simple, easy-to-use camera with the kit zoom that delivers nice JPGs I can print to 13x19 without apologies.  The X10 does struggle mightily at this print size, so it will be nice to get something better.  I expect the X-E1 to be better.  Not as good as the DSLR but very good indeed, and simpler and easier to use.

So in a couple months, after I've seen how it does, I think the X-E1 just might be my next camera. There's no hurry...

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