DPR K5II vs K5IIs Studio Shots are Up

Started Nov 10, 2012 | Discussions
Dale108
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DPR K5II vs K5IIs Studio Shots are Up
Nov 10, 2012
Pentax K-5
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viking79
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Re: DPR K5II vs K5IIs Studio Shots are Up
In reply to Dale108, Nov 10, 2012

Dale108 wrote:

Enjoy.

Dale

Looks good, more moire as expected, but sharper too.

Eric

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rogerstpierre
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Re: DPR K5II vs K5IIs Studio Shots are Up
In reply to Dale108, Nov 10, 2012

Surprised there are no more replies yet.  Interesting, and nice to see. It definitely highlights the moiré effect without the AA filter (also interesting how DPR chose the default position to highlight that difference, well chosen, I could have missed it otherwise).  Interesting to see how the 16Mpix APS-C is more vulnerable to moiré than the 36Mpix FF of the D800E, though not a fair comparison.  While I see the difference in added crispness in the IIs, sample, I am less convinced of the added value, i.e. how much crispness can be added to the II sample with a bit more fine tuning of the sharpening as I see no more details in the IIs sample, just a tad sharper actually.  Perhaps the benefit is more obvious in landscapes, as we've mostly seen to date.

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Lawnmower Shooter
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Re: DPR K5II vs K5IIs Studio Shots are Up
In reply to rogerstpierre, Nov 10, 2012

rogerstpierre wrote:

Surprised there are no more replies yet. Interesting, and nice to see. It definitely highlights the moiré effect without the AA filter (also interesting how DPR chose the default position to highlight that difference, well chosen, I could have missed it otherwise). Interesting to see how the 16Mpix APS-C is more vulnerable to moiré than the 36Mpix FF of the D800E, though not a fair comparison. While I see the difference in added crispness in the IIs, sample, I am less convinced of the added value, i.e. how much crispness can be added to the II sample with a bit more fine tuning of the sharpening as I see no more details in the IIs sample, just a tad sharper actually. Perhaps the benefit is more obvious in landscapes, as we've mostly seen to date.

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Roger

I just noticed this thread. I can say as I had wondered before, the IIs has less, or at least smaller, noise grain. Maybe this is just each pixel not bleeding over to the next, but the appearance is of less noise. Maybe the lack of a standard LPF blocks less actual light and allows for less iso gain? I would be interested to know exactly why this is, but there is a definite difference. I will also say, the original K5 looks slightly worse than the II, and the II looks slightly worse than the IIs.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/studio-compare#baseDir=%2Freviews_data&cameraDataSubdir=boxshot&indexFileName=boxshotindex.xml&presetsFileName=boxshotpresets.xml&showDescriptions=false&headerTitle=Studio%20scene&headerSubTitle=Standard%20studio%20scene%20comparison&masterCamera=pentax_k5iis&masterSample=imgp0116.acr&slotsCount=4&slot0Camera=pentax_k5iis&slot0Sample=imgp0116.acr&slot0DisableCameraSelection=true&slot0DisableSampleSelection=true&slot0LinkWithMaster=true&slot1Camera=pentax_k5&slot1Sample=imgp3873.acr&slot2Camera=pentax_k5iis&slot2Sample=imgp0116.acr&slot3Camera=pentax_k5ii&slot3Sample=imgp0025.acr&x=0.0006639214625871061&y=0.003025492339148977

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JohnBee
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Re: DPR K5II vs K5IIs Studio Shots are Up
In reply to Dale108, Nov 10, 2012

Amazing how it compares to the 5D MarkIII and D600. Hardly any noticeable differences .

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Lawnmower Shooter
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Re: DPR K5II vs K5IIs Studio Shots are Up
In reply to JohnBee, Nov 10, 2012

johnbee wrote:

Amazing how it compares to the 5D MarkIII and D600. Hardly any noticeable differences .

Yep it's pretty amazing. You are on the money, you literally can't tell a difference. I can only imagine what a pentax FF would be capable of. I think this is why pentax isn't in such a hurry to release one, the new K5 is well capable enough to hold the market, especially at such a low price for the feature set. I've seen a few pentax interviews where they hint about FF, I don't expect them of all brands to show their hand. I for one will be feeding my new IIs nothing but FF lenses, buying DA glass would be a waste if you plan on buying FF eventually.

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GordonBGood
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Re: DPR K5II vs K5IIs Studio Shots are Up
In reply to Lawnmower Shooter, Nov 10, 2012

Lawnmower Shooter wrote:

rogerstpierre wrote:

Surprised there are no more replies yet. Interesting, and nice to see. It definitely highlights the moiré effect without the AA filter (also interesting how DPR chose the default position to highlight that difference, well chosen, I could have missed it otherwise). Interesting to see how the 16Mpix APS-C is more vulnerable to moiré than the 36Mpix FF of the D800E, though not a fair comparison. While I see the difference in added crispness in the IIs, sample, I am less convinced of the added value, i.e. how much crispness can be added to the II sample with a bit more fine tuning of the sharpening as I see no more details in the IIs sample, just a tad sharper actually. Perhaps the benefit is more obvious in landscapes, as we've mostly seen to date.

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Roger

I just noticed this thread. I can say as I had wondered before, the IIs has less, or at least smaller, noise grain. Maybe this is just each pixel not bleeding over to the next, but the appearance is of less noise. Maybe the lack of a standard LPF blocks less actual light and allows for less iso gain? I would be interested to know exactly why this is, but there is a definite difference. I will also say, the original K5 looks slightly worse than the II, and the II looks slightly worse than the IIs.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/studio-compare#baseDir=%2Freviews_data&cameraDataSubdir=boxshot&indexFileName=boxshotindex.xml&presetsFileName=boxshotpresets.xml&showDescriptions=false&headerTitle=Studio%20scene&headerSubTitle=Standard%20studio%20scene%20comparison&masterCamera=pentax_k5iis&masterSample=imgp0116.acr&slotsCount=4&slot0Camera=pentax_k5iis&slot0Sample=imgp0116.acr&slot0DisableCameraSelection=true&slot0DisableSampleSelection=true&slot0LinkWithMaster=true&slot1Camera=pentax_k5&slot1Sample=imgp3873.acr&slot2Camera=pentax_k5iis&slot2Sample=imgp0116.acr&slot3Camera=pentax_k5ii&slot3Sample=imgp0025.acr&x=0.0006639214625871061&y=0.003025492339148977

It's hard to compare the K-5 to either of the K-5 II(s) as the 'II''s are focussed a little further frontward than the K-5, which seems to be focussed on the background surface.

Regards, GordonBGood

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Lawnmower Shooter
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Re: DPR K5II vs K5IIs Studio Shots are Up
In reply to GordonBGood, Nov 10, 2012

GordonBGood wrote:

Lawnmower Shooter wrote:

I just noticed this thread. I can say as I had wondered before, the IIs has less, or at least smaller, noise grain. Maybe this is just each pixel not bleeding over to the next, but the appearance is of less noise. Maybe the lack of a standard LPF blocks less actual light and allows for less iso gain? I would be interested to know exactly why this is, but there is a definite difference. I will also say, the original K5 looks slightly worse than the II, and the II looks slightly worse than the IIs.

It's hard to compare the K-5 to either of the K-5 II(s) as the 'II''s are focussed a little further frontward than the K-5, which seems to be focussed on the background surface.

I guess this is as good a time as any to get into it. I have also heard from people that uneven focusing makes these comparisons worthless, but in reality it is only that way for sharpness comparisons. A camera will show the same noise profile whether you are tac sharp or not. This is a very simple example, two shots, one almost focused on a wall with a nail, and one totally blurred. Crops were cut from the full size file, then up rezzed for easier viewing. Full FOV files are downsized to show the difference in focusing of the two. The crops are taken from the portion just to the left of the nail. In terms of noise, both are identical, focusing makes no difference in noise pattern.

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Donald B
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Re: DPR K5II vs K5IIs Studio Shots are Up
In reply to JohnBee, Nov 10, 2012

i think you should have a look at image resource.

cheers don

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JohnBee
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Re: DPR K5II vs K5IIs Studio Shots are Up
In reply to Lawnmower Shooter, Nov 10, 2012

Lawnmower Shooter wrote:

johnbee wrote:

Amazing how it compares to the 5D MarkIII and D600. Hardly any noticeable differences .

Yep it's pretty amazing. You are on the money, you literally can't tell a difference. I can only imagine what a pentax FF would be capable of. I think this is why pentax isn't in such a hurry to release one, the new K5 is well capable enough to hold the market, especially at such a low price for the feature set. I've seen a few pentax interviews where they hint about FF, I don't expect them of all brands to show their hand. I for one will be feeding my new IIs nothing but FF lenses, buying DA glass would be a waste if you plan on buying FF eventually.

Upon further investigation I'm afraid I'd have to recant my statement.

I have no idea what DPReview considers RAW in their studio comparison tool but its nowhere near what the RAW files look like in most default developers I could find. At any rate, here's what I found using Raw Therapee without any special processing(default).

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LightBug
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Re: DPR K5II vs K5IIs Studio Shots are Up
In reply to Dale108, Nov 10, 2012

Someone mentioned this in DPR's studio shot announcement page, could K-01 be also non-AA like K-IIs? Notice the side portrait crop has moire for both K-01 and K-IIs. Is that indicative of non-AA output on K-01?

Joey

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Lawnmower Shooter
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Re: DPR K5II vs K5IIs Studio Shots are Up
In reply to JohnBee, Nov 10, 2012

Again, I don't think we can judge sharpness in a setting like this, regardless of which medium we use. The K5 file shows the Queen of hearts is much sharper than the D600's, they are obviously focused at different places. It's very hard to compare the sharpness of any two objects because of this, noise is a different story. I think in noise, the IIs can hold it's own with any FF of today up through iso12k, except maybe with the D4.

In your crops above, the majority of the stuff on the posterboard is much closer to the cameras, if you look at the left of the playing card you can see the board protrudes from the wall at least an inch or two. If they could somehow make the display virtually all 2D it would be much easier to nail focusing so we can compare sharpness. One thing I do know, my IIs can throw down some amazing sharpness in a lens's sweet spot.

My christmas gift to myself (thanks to the wife) is a dual prime set, likely the FA100mm 2.8 and FA35mm 2.0. For now, I have a cheap 50mm and a 28-200 to keep my happy. As long as I keep the 50 around F8, it takes some sharp shots.

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JohnBee
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Re: DPR K5II vs K5IIs Studio Shots are Up
In reply to Lawnmower Shooter, Nov 10, 2012

Lawnmower Shooter wrote:

Again, I don't think we can judge sharpness in a setting like this, regardless of which medium we use. The K5 file shows the Queen of hearts is much sharper than the D600's...

That would likely fall in the OOF area.
That being said, the K-5 doesn't seem to compete with the D600 on the resolution end of it, no matter how we slice it. Which I suppose can be expected given the differences between both sensors.

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Ian Stuart Forsyth
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@ JB
In reply to JohnBee, Nov 10, 2012

johnbee wrote:

Lawnmower Shooter wrote:

johnbee wrote:

Amazing how it compares to the 5D MarkIII and D600. Hardly any noticeable differences .

Yep it's pretty amazing. You are on the money, you literally can't tell a difference. I can only imagine what a pentax FF would be capable of. I think this is why pentax isn't in such a hurry to release one, the new K5 is well capable enough to hold the market, especially at such a low price for the feature set. I've seen a few pentax interviews where they hint about FF, I don't expect them of all brands to show their hand. I for one will be feeding my new IIs nothing but FF lenses, buying DA glass would be a waste if you plan on buying FF eventually.

Upon further investigation I'm afraid I'd have to recant my statement.

I have no idea what DPReview considers RAW in their studio comparison tool but its nowhere near what the RAW files look like in most default developers I could find. At any rate, here's what I found using Raw Therapee without any special processing(default).

JB if it’s no trouble could you post a K5IIs scaled to D600  thanxs

ISF

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JohnBee
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Re: @ JB
In reply to Ian Stuart Forsyth, Nov 10, 2012

Ian Stuart Forsyth wrote:

JB if it’s no trouble could you post a K5IIs scaled to D600 thanxs

Sounds like fun

I'll give it a go shortly. 
I'll also add some Imaging Resource samples for good measure.

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Ian Stuart Forsyth
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Re: @ JB
In reply to JohnBee, Nov 10, 2012

heres my quick go at it



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miles green
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DPR's new studio scene
In reply to Lawnmower Shooter, Nov 10, 2012

DPreview is creating a new camera comparison studio setup. They posted about it a few days ago and it's flat (2D).

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miles green
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K5IIs High ISO is amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to LightBug, Nov 10, 2012

The K5IIs at high ISO is amazing!

It holds up, even compared to the Nikon D4 all the way to ISO 6400! At ISO 3200 particularly, the K5IIs is excellent! Compared to the D4, the K5IIs is less saturated, and the D4 seems to have an advantage where the colors are vibrant (feathers) but the K5IIs does at least as well if you look at the bank note (with the ancient greek sculpture) and the shadow box with the threads. Amazing!

I guess high ISO is about the signal-to-noise ratio, and increasing the signal by a step (no AA filter) is just as good as decreasing the noise by a stop (FF sensor)!

Also compare it to the D800e at iso 3200... The D800e has more detail due to sheer size, but the K5IIs is significantly cleaner!

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Miles Green
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miles green
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Imaging resource
In reply to Donald B, Nov 10, 2012

Donald B wrote:

i think you should have a look at image resource.

cheers don

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another year has gone, just cleared my 200 gallery images will start all over again, thanks to everyone that took the time to look.

Are the IR pictures from raws, or ooc jpgs?

Aaaah the 1DX...

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ozdean
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Re: DPR K5II vs K5IIs Studio Shots are Up
In reply to Dale108, Nov 10, 2012

Well It confirms IRs results IMO re IQ the only 2 that can conclusively beat it are the 645d & D800's

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