RAW/JPG Article

Started Nov 8, 2012 | Discussions
fjbyrne
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Give Rawtherapee at try...
In reply to moimoi, Nov 8, 2012

This is a good RAW developer too

http://rawtherapee.com/

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moimoi
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Re: Give Rawtherapee at try...
In reply to fjbyrne, Nov 8, 2012

fjbyrne wrote:

This is a good RAW developer too

http://rawtherapee.com/

Thanks.  I have heard of it but I am not a mac user.  Does it work on Linux?

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sybersitizen
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Re: RAW/JPG Article
In reply to moimoi, Nov 8, 2012

moimoi wrote:
Here we go, surprisingly, it was a time when I swore jpg was the way to go...and I was dead wrong. That's the reason I would not recommend beginners to shoot jpg, but raw or raw + jpg. Shoot raw, learn how to process your files (that's not difficult, specially nowadays with the large amount of literature on raw process), and you will never use jpg again.

Perhaps you were wrong about yourself the first time, but now you are wrong a second time about other photographers. Look how many of them did exactly what you said they will never do again:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3289954
Face it. You are you and other people are not you. Do not attempt to make them you. And more important, do not belittle them with insults as you have been doing here.

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fjbyrne
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Works on Linux, MAC and Windows
In reply to moimoi, Nov 8, 2012

moimoi wrote:

fjbyrne wrote:

This is a good RAW developer too

http://rawtherapee.com/

Thanks. I have heard of it but I am not a mac user. Does it work on Linux?

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I am a Linux user as well.  It works on Linux, MAC and Windows.

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BrewLab
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I think I can clear all this up...
In reply to ranger604, Nov 8, 2012

Now, the world don't move to the beat of just one drum, 
What might be right for you, may not be right for some. 
A man is born, he's a man of means. 
Then along come two, they got nothing but their jeans. 
But they got, Diff'rent Strokes. 
It takes, Diff'rent Strokes. 
It takes, Diff'rent Strokes to move the world. 
Everybody's got a special kind of story 
Everybody finds a way to shine, 
It don't matter that you got not alot 
So what, 
They'll have theirs, and you'll have yours, and I'll have mine. 
And together we'll be fine.... 
Because it takes, Diff'rent Strokes to move the world. 
Yes it does. 
It takes, Diff'rent Strokes to move the world. 
Cheers!!

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moimoi
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Re: Works on Linux, MAC and Windows
In reply to fjbyrne, Nov 8, 2012

fjbyrne wrote:

moimoi wrote:

fjbyrne wrote:

This is a good RAW developer too

http://rawtherapee.com/

Thanks. I have heard of it but I am not a mac user. Does it work on Linux?

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Measurebators are out of my world, photography is not about babbling behind a computer... but rather being out of your home, shoot and share photographs with other people. Shoot and Share...Thanks.

I am a Linux user as well. It works on Linux, MAC and Windows.

Good to know.  Will give it a try soon.  Any major advantages over ACR (I use CS5)?

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alphacam
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Re: Works on Linux, MAC and Windows
In reply to moimoi, Nov 8, 2012

eh.  If you have CS5, you already have a nice raw converter.  (Need CS6 for a99 files though.)  Just go to File - Open, point/select all the RAW files in the subdirectory and the click Open.  Then Camera RAW will open on the scren.  At the bottom center, select the correct setting like sRGB-something (or you can use something else too).  Then back at the top-left, click Select All.  Then click the bottom left Save Images (and come back to the computer a few minutes later, or do something else while it's converting/saving the big batch of files in the background).  On the right side, some people may people may tweak some settings before converting but i usually like to keep it all plain/default.  On some difficult shots that we'll need to fix, we can open it here (just one picture/file at a time) and then recover/mess with it or click on the Open Images button on the lower right side of the screen.  Have fun!!

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moimoi
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Re: Works on Linux, MAC and Windows
In reply to alphacam, Nov 8, 2012

alphacam wrote:

eh. If you have CS5, you already have a nice raw converter. (Need CS6 for a99 files though.) Just go to File - Open, point/select all the RAW files in the subdirectory and the click Open. Then Camera RAW will open on the scren. At the bottom center, select the correct setting like sRGB-something (or you can use something else too). Then back at the top-left, click Select All. Then click the bottom left Save Images (and come back to the computer a few minutes later, or do something else while it's converting/saving the big batch of files in the background). On the right side, some people may people may tweak some settings before converting but i usually like to keep it all plain/default. On some difficult shots that we'll need to fix, we can open it here (just one picture/file at a time) and then recover/mess with it or click on the Open Images button on the lower right side of the screen. Have fun!!

My question was concerned with how rawthetherapee performs against ACR.  I used ACR on the daily basis.

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fjbyrne
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Re: Works on Linux, MAC and Windows
In reply to moimoi, Nov 8, 2012

moimoi wrote:

fjbyrne wrote:

moimoi wrote:

fjbyrne wrote:

This is a good RAW developer too

http://rawtherapee.com/

Thanks. I have heard of it but I am not a mac user. Does it work on Linux?

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Measurebators are out of my world, photography is not about babbling behind a computer... but rather being out of your home, shoot and share photographs with other people. Shoot and Share...Thanks.

I am a Linux user as well. It works on Linux, MAC and Windows.

Good to know. Will give it a try soon. Any major advantages over ACR (I use CS5)?

Aside from being FOSS I would say not really other than Rawtherapee is more of a Lightroom-type program in that it allows the settings to be applied to multiple RAW files.

It's worth giving a try since it doesn't cost anything. 

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VirtualMirage
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Re: RAW/JPG Article
In reply to ranger604, Nov 8, 2012

ranger604 wrote:

RAW vs. JPG Article

Found value in this simple article, and thought I would share.

not intended to ignite flame-throwers, or sharpen swords. Just an article that helped me through a better understanding.

Well, it looks like the flame throwers got ignited anyways.

From my personal experience, I prefer RAW.  I currently shoot in RAW+JPEG but I am leaning towards shooting RAW only.  My main reason, at the time, for keeping JPEG was for the Mrs. to have something to easily upload her pictures from.  But with the improvements in editors and their plug-ins that will convert the RAWs for her automatically, I am finding less use for the JPEGs and they are now just taking up space on my hard drive.

But, I have to say, your ease of use and how much positive experience you get from your RAWs is heavily dependent on the application you are using to convert them.  Some offer better "out of camera" default settings than others as well as being more faithful to the colors you are expecting than others.  This will allow you to not spend as much time working on your photos and more time viewing, printing, or sharing them.  Of course, this will vary from camera to camera.  The latest Lightroom, for me, seems to do a pretty bang up job.

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Paul

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alphacam
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Re: Works on Linux, MAC and Windows
In reply to moimoi, Nov 8, 2012

oh ok.  my bad!

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moimoi
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Re: Works on Linux, MAC and Windows
In reply to fjbyrne, Nov 8, 2012

fjbyrne wrote:

moimoi wrote:

fjbyrne wrote:

moimoi wrote:

fjbyrne wrote:

This is a good RAW developer too

http://rawtherapee.com/

Thanks. I have heard of it but I am not a mac user. Does it work on Linux?

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All harsh, impolite and/or unreasonable replies will be simply ignored.
Measurebators are out of my world, photography is not about babbling behind a computer... but rather being out of your home, shoot and share photographs with other people. Shoot and Share...Thanks.

I am a Linux user as well. It works on Linux, MAC and Windows.

Good to know. Will give it a try soon. Any major advantages over ACR (I use CS5)?

Aside from being FOSS I would say not really other than Rawtherapee is more of a Lightroom-type program in that it allows the settings to be applied to multiple RAW files.

ACR allows to apply the same settings on multiple RAW files, which is useful when you intend to process individual frames for a panoramic collage.   You need to select/open raw files simultaneously.

It's worth giving a try since it doesn't cost anything.

Yup, will give it a try for sure.  Thanks for the tip, I appreciate it.

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Allan Olesen
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Re: Works on Linux, MAC and Windows
In reply to fjbyrne, Nov 8, 2012

fjbyrne wrote:


Aside from being FOSS I would say not really other than Rawtherapee is more of a Lightroom-type program in that it allows the settings to be applied to multiple RAW files.

RawTherapee is also known to be a more "true" conversion tool than Lightroom.

With Lightroom there is an extra layer of intelligence/magic between what the sliders say they do, and what they actually do. In most cases this works well and makes the life easier for the user, but in some cases it can drive people nuts.

An example of this is "ISO-less" photography:

With modern cameras, the need for using in-camera ISO is disappearing. Except for the lowest ISO values, increasing the ISO in the camera gives the same image quality loss as using a lower ISO and then increasing light in post processing. Both are just different ways of amplifying the light - except that the latter method preserves more highlight information so you can end up with a better result after post processing. So some people prefer to use this method. (And it can also be regarded a workaround for the missing Auto ISO in Manual on most Sony cameras.)

When you do ISO-less photography, you need a raw converter which can amplify the light in the photo in the same way as if you had increased the ISO in the camera. That is really what the Exposure slider in a raw converter is supposed to do. And in Rawtherapee it does just that. But in Lightroom some other magic is added, and you end up with a photo with a ridiculous amount of contrast and have to compensate on the other sliders.

I prefer Lightroom, though. All that magic helps me to achieve a good result faster, even though it also prevents me from doing some things.

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JohnBee
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Re: Works on Linux, MAC and Windows
In reply to moimoi, Nov 8, 2012

moimoi wrote:

My question was concerned with how rawthetherapee performs against ACR. I used ACR on the daily basis.

RT beats Adobe Camera Raw in many areas though ACR is an excellent turnkey RAW developer that will yield excellent results for most any shooter.

That being said, I prefer RT for images that are destined for maximum detail as I can squeeze a little more out of them. Whereas I prefer ACR or LR for high ISO images due to it's smoother grain and superior chroma NR qualities.

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tbcass
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Re: it's a little more complicated than that
In reply to moimoi, Nov 8, 2012

moimoi wrote:


The only reason to favor jpg against raw is laziness. I never shoot jpg.

Will

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Well since you've just insulted all jpg shooters with your condescending, harsh, impolite and unreasonable reply the second above sentence describes your post very well. Kind of hypocritical isn't it or do you suggest we ignore you?

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moimoi
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Re: it's a little more complicated than that
In reply to tbcass, Nov 8, 2012

tbcass wrote:

moimoi wrote:


The only reason to favor jpg against raw is laziness. I never shoot jpg.

Will

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Well since you've just insulted all jpg shooters with your condescending, harsh, impolite and unreasonable reply the second above sentence describes your post very well. Kind of hypocritical isn't it or do you suggest we ignore you?

Obviously, you need to take my comment with a grain of salts. As far as I am concerned, it depends on the efforts you want to make. There has been some discussions on the web, I don't think it is inappropriate to say that shooting jpg.

http://newschoolofphotography.com/general-discussion/13710-shooting-raw-making-me-lazy.html

Anyhow, get over it.

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becasabot
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Re: it's a little more complicated than that
In reply to moimoi, Nov 8, 2012

moimoi wrote:

tbcass wrote:

moimoi wrote:


The only reason to favor jpg against raw is laziness. I never shoot jpg.

Will

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Well since you've just insulted all jpg shooters with your condescending, harsh, impolite and unreasonable reply the second above sentence describes your post very well. Kind of hypocritical isn't it or do you suggest we ignore you?

Obviously, you need to take my comment with a grain of salts. As far as I am concerned, it depends on the efforts you want to make. There has been some discussions on the web, I don't think it is inappropriate to say that shooting jpg.

http://newschoolofphotography.com/general-discussion/13710-shooting-raw-making-me-lazy.html

Anyhow, get over it.

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For me most of the time,

"The only reason to favor against raw is just "business" ", pun intended.

And for some, "The only reason to favor against painting is laziness" :

http://diegokoi.deviantart.com/

http://jperrault.blogspot.com/2009/11/discovering-dirk-dzimirsky.html

Insulting others, arrogance, no good. Please read the note under your signature, you must have added it there for a reason.

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gil
gil
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I always try to improve my exposure; thus, no need for RAW on my needs. I don't...(more)
In reply to ranger604, Nov 9, 2012

have any problem with others finding satisfaction with RAW :-D. De gustibus non est disputandum - of likes and dislikes, there should be no disputing - live and let live.

cheers,

gil

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Cheers, gil - San Jose, CA Cheap Lens, JPG and 100% Handholding Provocateur Like happiness, photography is often better created than pursued.

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gil
gil
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"but shooting jpg solely is foolishness" - funny you saying that because it was not....(more)
In reply to moimoi, Nov 9, 2012

your money. Let them (including me :-D) be if they have equipment solely for JPG. I am happy with my 99.9% JPG use and if you are happy with your RAW, I am also happy for you.

Cheers,

gil

moimoi wrote:

EvilOne wrote:

moimoi wrote:


The only reason to favor jpg against raw is laziness. I never shoot jpg.

Will

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Measurebators are out of my world, photography is not about babbling behind a computer... but rather being out of your home, shoot and share photographs with other people. Shoot and Share...Thanks.

In this case then maybe we should ignore your unreasonable and rude reply...

Laziness has nothing what so ever to do with it. Not everyone prioritises Photography in the same way... there are many more things that take precedent over Processing RAW images for me... like Family, Health, and other areas of responsibility... IM not Lazy and take offense to your premise.. I go to the gym 6 days a week, I practice and shoot competitively in pistol and bench rest competitions.. I also shoot wild life and can spend 8 hours in the woods 4 days a week. I see my grandchildren and play with them 3 days a week... I have a wife of 45 years married and she is my number one priority... and all these things take precedent over spending time processing RAW images... So as I said, your premise is rude and condescending... because "YOU " never shoot JPEG.. what does that mean to the rest of us who have much higher priorities than processing RAW images but still find that shooting snap shots and recording memories on a daily basis is in any way wrong because that's not what you do !....

fairly pathetic if you ask me...

Let's play middle ground then, shoot raw + jpg. Raw for letting the magic roll, and jpg to get instant but most likely imperfect product.

But frankly, processing raw files really takes less than a few minutes, and you get much better out of your sensor, and much better control in the output files. It almost becomes pointless to shoot 8bits jpg nowadays (only if you clients want the jpg right away), specially when the sensors are getting more and more sensitive.

Post-processing jpg files can be very destructive as well. That's certainly not the workflow I will not recommend to anyone, specially to the beginners, who need to get used to play with raw files.

Again, personally, I only care about the raw, shooting raw + jpg is no problem, but shooting jpg solely is foolishness, more especially with very expensive cameras. It is like buying a Ferrari, but driving at 65 mph...

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Cheers, gil - San Jose, CA Cheap Lens, JPG and 100% Handholding Provocateur Like happiness, photography is often better created than pursued.

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NPPhoto
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This is how I decide RAW vs. JPG...
In reply to ranger604, Nov 9, 2012

You need raw when the conditions are not optimal to shoot jpg. Under bright, sunny skies, I almost always shoot jpg. Also, when I am not trying to photograph something seriously, i.e. regular weekend photography, I always go the jpg route.

But, if I am on vacation at Bryce Canyon or Zion, etc. then I will shoot raw+jpg. I shoot raw+jpg only because I use raw as a preview. I believe if I underttok a special journey or effort to get to a place to photograph it then I will shoot raw+jpg. I do not want to take any chances by only shooting jpgs.

But if the subject has plenty of lighting then most modern cameras will give a lot of latitude to even work with jpgs alone.

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