RAW/JPG Article

Started Nov 8, 2012 | Discussions
ranger604
New MemberPosts: 19Gear list
Like?
RAW/JPG Article
Nov 8, 2012

RAW vs. JPG Article

Found value in this simple article, and thought I would share.

not intended to ignite flame-throwers, or sharpen swords.  Just an article that helped me through a better understanding.

 ranger604's gear list:ranger604's gear list
Sony SLT-A77 Olympus E-M1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM1 Sony DT 18-250mm F3.5-6.3 Sigma 8-16mm F4.5-5.6 DC HSM +8 more
William Porter
Senior MemberPosts: 1,670Gear list
Like?
it's a little more complicated than that
In reply to ranger604, Nov 8, 2012

I started to write a little critique of the many misleading statements in the article but thought, oh, what the heck, why not just provide an alternate link:

http://www.techhive.com/article/1168046/raw-vs-jpeg-which-should-you-shoot-and-when.html

I used to be a Raw evangelist myself. I haven't lost my faith entirely—I still shoot Raw most of the time, especially when I'm working. But in the article I just linked to, I argue that there are many rather solid reasons why many people still prefer to let their camera do the raw-to-JPEG conversion for them.

Will

 William Porter's gear list:William Porter's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX7 Olympus E-M1 Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 40-150mm 1:4-5.6 R Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8 +7 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
moimoi
Senior MemberPosts: 3,142Gear list
Like?
Re: it's a little more complicated than that
In reply to William Porter, Nov 8, 2012

William Porter wrote:

I started to write a little critique of the many misleading statements in the article but thought, oh, what the heck, why not just provide an alternate link:

http://www.techhive.com/article/1168046/raw-vs-jpeg-which-should-you-shoot-and-when.html

I used to be a Raw evangelist myself. I haven't lost my faith entirely—I still shoot Raw most of the time, especially when I'm working. But in the article I just linked to, I argue that there are many rather solid reasons why many people still prefer to let their camera do the raw-to-JPEG conversion for them.

The only reason to favor jpg against raw is laziness.  I never shoot jpg.

Will

-- hide signature --

All harsh, impolite and/or unreasonable replies will be simply ignored.
Measurebators are out of my world, photography is not about babbling behind a computer... but rather being out of your home, shoot and share photographs with other people. Shoot and Share...Thanks.

 moimoi's gear list:moimoi's gear list
Canon EOS 6D Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM Canon EF 35mm f/2 IS USM
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
sybersitizen
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,746
Like?
Re: it's a little more complicated than that
In reply to moimoi, Nov 8, 2012

moimoi wrote:
The only reason to favor jpg against raw is laziness. I never shoot jpg.

So the inevitable mudslinging begins.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
brian14478
Senior MemberPosts: 3,541
Like?
Re: RAW/JPG Article
In reply to ranger604, Nov 8, 2012

i am pretty much a semi convert to raw..i shoot now raw/jpeg and those i feel are worth the extra...i convert to high quailty jpeg(wide color gammut)then pp in another program..75% of what i shoot isnt worth the extra time and file size...or maybe more like 95%,thanks..brian

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
EvilOne
Forum ProPosts: 13,573Gear list
Like?
Re: it's a little more complicated than that
In reply to moimoi, Nov 8, 2012

moimoi wrote:

The only reason to favor jpg against raw is laziness. I never shoot jpg.

Will

-- hide signature --

All harsh, impolite and/or unreasonable replies will be simply ignored.
Measurebators are out of my world, photography is not about babbling behind a computer... but rather being out of your home, shoot and share photographs with other people. Shoot and Share...Thanks.

In this case then maybe we should ignore your unreasonable and rude reply...

Laziness has nothing what so ever to do with it. Not everyone prioritises Photography in the same way... there are many more things that take precedent over Processing RAW images for me... like Family, Health, and other areas of responsibility... IM not Lazy and take offense to your premise.. I go to the gym 6 days a week, I practice and shoot competitively in pistol and bench rest competitions.. I also shoot wild life and can spend 8 hours in the woods 4 days a week. I see my grandchildren and play with them 3 days a week... I have a wife of 45 years married and she is my number one priority... and all these things take precedent over spending time processing RAW images... So as I said, your premise is rude and condescending...  because "YOU " never shoot JPEG.. what does that mean to the rest of us who have much higher priorities than processing RAW images but still find that shooting snap shots and recording memories on a daily basis is in any way wrong because that's not what you do !....

fairly pathetic if you ask me...

-- hide signature --

Bill aka EO

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
EvilOne
Forum ProPosts: 13,573Gear list
Like?
Re: it's a little more complicated than that
In reply to sybersitizen, Nov 8, 2012

sybersitizen wrote:

moimoi wrote:
The only reason to favor jpg against raw is laziness.<--------- ( You were the first to start mudslinging ) I never shoot jpg.

So the inevitable mudslinging begins. << Yes By YOU

You started the mud slinging by calling ALL those who shoot JPEG only as being Lazy..... if you cant see that, read it again, you are the mudslinger......

-- hide signature --

A bit immature too I suspect. can I throw in narrow minded too?

All harsh, impolite and/or unreasonable replies will be simply ignored. Measurebators are out of my world, photography is not about babbling behind a computer... but rather being out of your home, shoot and share photographs with other people. Shoot and Share...Thanks

Can I add, hypocritical too.

Bill aka EO

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
moimoi
Senior MemberPosts: 3,142Gear list
Like?
Re: it's a little more complicated than that
In reply to EvilOne, Nov 8, 2012

EvilOne wrote:

moimoi wrote:


The only reason to favor jpg against raw is laziness. I never shoot jpg.

Will

-- hide signature --

All harsh, impolite and/or unreasonable replies will be simply ignored.
Measurebators are out of my world, photography is not about babbling behind a computer... but rather being out of your home, shoot and share photographs with other people. Shoot and Share...Thanks.

In this case then maybe we should ignore your unreasonable and rude reply...

Laziness has nothing what so ever to do with it. Not everyone prioritises Photography in the same way... there are many more things that take precedent over Processing RAW images for me... like Family, Health, and other areas of responsibility... IM not Lazy and take offense to your premise.. I go to the gym 6 days a week, I practice and shoot competitively in pistol and bench rest competitions.. I also shoot wild life and can spend 8 hours in the woods 4 days a week. I see my grandchildren and play with them 3 days a week... I have a wife of 45 years married and she is my number one priority... and all these things take precedent over spending time processing RAW images... So as I said, your premise is rude and condescending... because "YOU " never shoot JPEG.. what does that mean to the rest of us who have much higher priorities than processing RAW images but still find that shooting snap shots and recording memories on a daily basis is in any way wrong because that's not what you do !....

fairly pathetic if you ask me...

Let's play middle ground then, shoot raw + jpg. Raw for letting the magic roll, and jpg to get instant but most likely imperfect product.

But frankly, processing raw files really takes less than a few minutes, and you get much better out of your sensor, and much better control in the output files. It almost becomes pointless to shoot 8bits jpg nowadays (only if you clients want the jpg right away), specially when the sensors are getting more and more sensitive.

Post-processing jpg files can be very destructive as well. That's certainly not the workflow I will not recommend to anyone, specially to the beginners, who need to get used to play with raw files.

Again, personally, I only care about the raw, shooting raw + jpg is no problem, but shooting jpg solely is foolishness, more especially with very expensive cameras. It is like buying a Ferrari, but driving at 65 mph...

-- hide signature --

Bill aka EO

-- hide signature --

All harsh, impolite and/or unreasonable replies will be simply ignored.
Measurebators are out of my world, photography is not about babbling behind a computer... but rather being out of your home, shoot and share photographs with other people. Shoot and Share...Thanks.

 moimoi's gear list:moimoi's gear list
Canon EOS 6D Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM Canon EF 35mm f/2 IS USM
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
pnoij
Regular MemberPosts: 161
Like?
Re: it's a little more complicated than that
In reply to moimoi, Nov 8, 2012

I agree with your thoughts. However, for me there is another aspect.

Pictures I show on the television (more than 95%) are JPG's. When I want to make a print or show a picture for a special reason, it is the RAW. I have Photoshop Elements 7, which does not support A77. Going RAW all the way creates a very time consuming workflow.

Peter

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
moimoi
Senior MemberPosts: 3,142Gear list
Like?
Re: it's a little more complicated than that
In reply to pnoij, Nov 8, 2012

pnoij wrote:

I agree with your thoughts. However, for me there is another aspect.

Pictures I show on the television (more than 95%) are JPG's. When I want to make a print or show a picture for a special reason, it is the RAW. I have Photoshop Elements 7, which does not support A77. Going RAW all the way creates a very time consuming workflow.

I entirely understand  and it is shameful Adobe does not support new cameras with older Photoshop versions.  Again, very shameful because they force their customers to upgrade to newer versions, and those are not cheap.

Have you tried GIMP, it is free and they support raw files I believe.

Cheers,

moimoi

Peter

-- hide signature --

All harsh, impolite and/or unreasonable replies will be simply ignored.
Measurebators are out of my world, photography is not about babbling behind a computer... but rather being out of your home, shoot and share photographs with other people. Shoot and Share...Thanks.

 moimoi's gear list:moimoi's gear list
Canon EOS 6D Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM Canon EF 35mm f/2 IS USM
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
TrojMacReady
Senior MemberPosts: 8,517
Like?
Re: it's a little more complicated than that
In reply to moimoi, Nov 8, 2012

moimoi wrote:

William Porter wrote:

I started to write a little critique of the many misleading statements in the article but thought, oh, what the heck, why not just provide an alternate link:

http://www.techhive.com/article/1168046/raw-vs-jpeg-which-should-you-shoot-and-when.html

I used to be a Raw evangelist myself. I haven't lost my faith entirely—I still shoot Raw most of the time, especially when I'm working. But in the article I just linked to, I argue that there are many rather solid reasons why many people still prefer to let their camera do the raw-to-JPEG conversion for them.

The only reason to favor jpg against raw is laziness. I never shoot jpg.

Will

-- hide signature --

All harsh, impolite and/or unreasonable replies will be simply ignored.

You should ignore your own replies too then.

There are quite a few reasons to stick to jpegs in certain situations other than "laziness".

A quick example:

- buffer depth and clearing times

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
sybersitizen
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,746
Like?
Re: it's a little more complicated than that
In reply to moimoi, Nov 8, 2012

moimoi wrote:
... shooting jpg solely is foolishness...

Another closed-minded insult? So those who have reasons for NOT sharing your point of view are both lazy and foolish? And yet this is part of your own signature: "All harsh, impolite and/or unreasonable replies will be simply ignored." Try walking the walk.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
phaedin
Senior MemberPosts: 1,207Gear list
Like?
Re: RAW/JPG Article
In reply to ranger604, Nov 8, 2012

I don't know why Sony doesn't change their firmware so that if you are shooting in RAW and you change to one of the special features - like sweep panorama etc then it displays a warning screen similar to "You are using a special feature which will save a JPEG file only - press the ok button to continue"

That way you can use all the functions on the camera without having to go in to the menu to switch file formats - great for us noobs who want to shoot RAW to try and get more out of the camera for most shot but don't have the experience or equipment to "do it manually" for more complex or difficult shots and techniques, or have family members who are not as experienced with the camera.

 phaedin's gear list:phaedin's gear list
Nikon D7100 Sigma 17-50mm F2.8 EX DC OS HSM Tamron SP 70-200mm F/2.8 Di VC USD
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
pnoij
Regular MemberPosts: 161
Like?
Re: it's a little more complicated than that
In reply to moimoi, Nov 8, 2012

I have not tried GIMP. When you try all programs your computer is loaded with too many programs than I can handle. PSE, ImageDataConverter, Irfanview, Adobe DNGconverter.

For GPS Basecamp, MAPsource, ITNconverter, EasyGPS, GPS TrackEditor, GPS TrackMaker (now going to uninstall).

Point, too much (free) offerings  to handle.

Peter

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
linslus
Contributing MemberPosts: 690Gear list
Like?
Re: it's a little more complicated than that
In reply to moimoi, Nov 8, 2012

moimoi wrote:

The only reason to favor jpg against raw is laziness. I never shoot jpg.

-1

 linslus's gear list:linslus's gear list
Sony SLT-A57
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
moimoi
Senior MemberPosts: 3,142Gear list
Like?
Re: it's a little more complicated than that
In reply to pnoij, Nov 8, 2012

pnoij wrote:

I have not tried GIMP. When you try all programs your computer is loaded with too many programs than I can handle. PSE, ImageDataConverter, Irfanview, Adobe DNGconverter.

For GPS Basecamp, MAPsource, ITNconverter, EasyGPS, GPS TrackEditor, GPS TrackMaker (now going to uninstall).

Point, too much (free) offerings to handle.

Peter

I hear you.  Diversity is good though.  I think I am gonna try GIMP again.

Cheers,

moimoi

-- hide signature --

All harsh, impolite and/or unreasonable replies will be simply ignored.
Measurebators are out of my world, photography is not about babbling behind a computer... but rather being out of your home, shoot and share photographs with other people. Shoot and Share...Thanks.

 moimoi's gear list:moimoi's gear list
Canon EOS 6D Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM Canon EF 35mm f/2 IS USM
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
moimoi
Senior MemberPosts: 3,142Gear list
Like?
Re: it's a little more complicated than that
In reply to sybersitizen, Nov 8, 2012

sybersitizen wrote:

moimoi wrote:
... shooting jpg solely is foolishness...

Another closed-minded insult? So those who have reasons for NOT sharing your point of view are both lazy and foolish? And yet this is part of your own signature: "All harsh, impolite and/or unreasonable replies will be simply ignored." Try walking the walk.

Not really, it is all there, even some people admit to be lazy:

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/forums/thread24286.htm

-- hide signature --

All harsh, impolite and/or unreasonable replies will be simply ignored.
Measurebators are out of my world, photography is not about babbling behind a computer... but rather being out of your home, shoot and share photographs with other people. Shoot and Share...Thanks.

 moimoi's gear list:moimoi's gear list
Canon EOS 6D Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM Canon EF 35mm f/2 IS USM
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
sybersitizen
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,746
Like?
Re: it's a little more complicated than that
In reply to moimoi, Nov 8, 2012

moimoi wrote:
No really, it is all there, even some people admit to be lazy:

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/forums/thread24286.htm

The posts in that thread prove something to you about the worldwide photographic community? That's pretty sad.

Let's get back to your point. Saying that JPEG shooters are lazy and foolish is equivalent to saying that RAW shooters are anal retentive sheep. Note that I am not saying either of those things... but you definitely said one of them. Again, try walking the walk.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Stv
Stv
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,502Gear list
Like?
Re: RAW/JPG Article
In reply to ranger604, Nov 8, 2012

I can't speak for anyone, but in my case, I used JPEG exclusively for my first 5 years of digital SLR and defended its merits ardently. What I discovered was, there wasn't a single image in my JPEG shots that I couldn't improve, even with just a little PP in PSE#. I was finessing the whole gamut, contrast, sharpen, noise, saturation etc. anyways. After getting the @900 and Adobe LTR-3, I went straight to RAW and discovered that it was no more difficult or even much different from what I was already doing in my JPEG files. The big difference was, I ended up with better contol and a much, much improved finished image that was superior to any of my JPEGs that preceded.

Cheers................ Stv

-- hide signature --

Simplify_balancE_eXclude = photo SEX
The First rule of photography is; there are no rules. The Second rule of photography is the; rule of Thirds. The Third rule of photography is; if the Second rule does not apply, defer to the First rule.
http://stv.smugmug.com/

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
moimoi
Senior MemberPosts: 3,142Gear list
Like?
Re: RAW/JPG Article
In reply to Stv, Nov 8, 2012

Stv wrote:

I can't speak for anyone, but in my case, I used JPEG exclusively for my first 5 years of digital SLR and defended its merits ardently. What I discovered was, there wasn't a single image in my JPEG shots that I couldn't improve, even with just a little PP in PSE#. I was finessing the whole gamut, contrast, sharpen, noise, saturation etc. anyways. After getting the @900 and Adobe LTR-3, I went straight to RAW and discovered that it was no more difficult or even much different from what I was already doing in my JPEG files. The big difference was, I ended up with better contol and a much, much improved finished image that was superior to any of my JPEGs that preceded.

Cheers................ Stv

-- hide signature --

Simplify_balancE_eXclude = photo SEX
The First rule of photography is; there are no rules. The Second rule of photography is the; rule of Thirds. The Third rule of photography is; if the Second rule does not apply, defer to the First rule.
http://stv.smugmug.com/

Here we go, surprisingly, it was a time when I swore jpg was the way to go...and I was dead wrong.  That's the reason I would not recommend beginners to shoot jpg, but raw or raw + jpg.  Shoot raw, learn how to process your files (that's not difficult, specially nowadays with the large amount of literature on raw process), and you will never use jpg again.

-- hide signature --

All harsh, impolite and/or unreasonable replies will be simply ignored.
Measurebators are out of my world, photography is not about babbling behind a computer... but rather being out of your home, shoot and share photographs with other people. Shoot and Share...Thanks.

 moimoi's gear list:moimoi's gear list
Canon EOS 6D Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM Canon EF 35mm f/2 IS USM
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads