Canon G15 vs G12 vs P7700 studio comparison tool

Started Nov 8, 2012 | Discussions
Grobb
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Canon G15 vs G12 vs P7700 studio comparison tool
Nov 8, 2012

My take from it looking at the studio comparison tool and looking at the watch in the lower right hand corner mostly:

  1. The G15 with the extra 2MP’s give it an edge and give is a bit more fine detail than the G12.
  2. RAW images of the G12 has less noise and looks just as good at 80-800 ISO as the G15 does. I guess I need to resort to shooting RAW + JPG from now on to get the most out of my G12 (for those special pictures) from now on
  3. JPG images from the G15 has less noise than the P700, very close to the G12 but still with more fine detail due to the extra 2MP's.
  4. The P7700 does not have good JPG’s, but in RAW, it is basically the same as the G15 and better than the G12, as far as fine detail is concerned. If you shoot mainly RAW and want/need the extra focal range, it may be the way to go for you.

I only compared images shot from 80-800 ISO’s because I don’t believe these three cameras with their small 1/1.7” sensor should be shot at more than that, due to the extreme noise and low detail at anything higher. As far as the RX100 goes, it has way too many MP’s IMO and I'm not interest in it anyway due to cost and MANY other reasons.

Canon PowerShot G12 Canon PowerShot G15 Nikon Coolpix P7700 Pentax Optio P70 Sony RX100
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aekn
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Re: Canon G15 vs G12 vs P7700 studio comparison tool
In reply to Grobb, Nov 8, 2012

I know what you mean about the RX100.  I can't believe the hype.  It may have great images, but how can anyone even use it-WAY too "petite" if you know what I mean.  Not to mention the ridiculous price.

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Dimitri Khoz
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Re: Canon G15 vs G12 vs P7700 studio comparison tool
In reply to aekn, Nov 8, 2012

Here is a straight JPEG comparison

of G12 vs G15 vs RX100 vs P7700 at ISO1600



Center

Corner

Details

Looks like G15 is a clear JPEG winner.

Plus the lens is the brightest from the bunch which will allow to use lower ISO than competition.

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ZoranC
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Re: Canon G15 vs G12 vs P7700 studio comparison tool
In reply to Grobb, Nov 8, 2012

Lies, damn lies, and camera tests, it's so easy to end up seeing only what one wants to see or what others end up making you see. It is impossible to judge camera through single set of studio shots so I prefer to test myself in real world. Below is side-by-side from P7700 vs. G15 (Nikon being on left hand side), first upper right corner and then lower right corner, shot at practical infinity. Make sure you see them at full size, remember DPR reduces quality of uploaded images, and form your own conclusions.

Also, people like to parrot that G15 has faster lens. Yeah, that is true. But in side-by-side shooting I have been getting more sharp keepers at same focal length from Nikon's slower lens than I was from Canon. I was even getting more sharp keepers from Nikon at 200mm F4 than I was from Canon full tele at 2.8, that's how good VR on P7700 vs. IS on G15 was working for me.





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Minh Ta
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Re: Canon G15 vs G12 vs P7700 studio comparison tool
In reply to ZoranC, Nov 8, 2012

How do you know that your sample pic doesn't suffer from out of  focus or some weird optical defects? Any chance to post the full size picture?

If it's a studio sample, the condition is more or less controlled. Somehow studio samples from dpreview, dcresource, imaging-resource appear to confirm the sharpness of Canon G15. Don't you think it's a bit weird that the different reviewers see the same thing?

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Grobb
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Re: Canon G15 vs G12 vs P7700 studio comparison tool
In reply to ZoranC, Nov 8, 2012

I have also noticed at default settings, the P7700 does take sharper pictures than the G15/G12. I think that could be resolved by:

  1. Shooting in P-mode and increasing the in camera sharpness by +1 or +2, if needed.
  2. Shooting in P-mode and changing the setting to Superfine quality instead of Fine quality.
  3. Shooting in RAW and sharpening in PP'ing.
  4. Shooting in JPG and sharpening in PP'ing.

There is nothing really wrong with the P7700, and I do like the swivel screen and much better reach! The only way the P7700 can compare with the G15 (IMO) is to always shoot RAW since it's JPG's do NOT have the same IQ. I would be interesting to see some full size images with shots made at different setting to see if or how much of a difference it makes, hint, hint

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ZoranC
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Re: Canon G15 vs G12 vs P7700 studio comparison tool
In reply to Minh Ta, Nov 8, 2012

Minh Ta wrote:

How do you know that your sample pic doesn't suffer from out of focus or some weird optical defects? Any chance to post the full size picture?

First, object is not out of focus. At distance in question and with settings in question all of the area is supposed to be well within DOF.

That leaves us with two possibilities: optical misalignment (which many people have complained about here with previous G* and S* series) or very heavy curvature of the field (which I have seen happen when manufacturers go for fast lens on compact body designs). I have tried two copies of G15. Both of them showed same behavior. Actually, shot I posted is one from "better" copy of the two, first one was worse. In the end it doesn't matter to me what exact culprit is, two copies in a row is bad enough, G15 went back.

If it's a studio sample, the condition is more or less controlled. Somehow studio samples from dpreview, dcresource, imaging-resource appear to confirm the sharpness of Canon G15. Don't you think it's a bit weird that the different reviewers see the same thing?

And what makes my test not controlled? And don't you think it is weird to judge performance of camera way all these review sites make us do it, based on one shot from relatively short distance at one focal length with closed down aperture when people will be using it across all apertures and all focal lengths and all distances?

And don't you think I shouldn't care do review sites (that might be getting their test cameras from manufacturers instead of off the shelf like regular consumers do) show sharp pictures in their rather narrow use test when two copies in the row I got were showing results I just showed you?

And don't you think you shouldn't be too heavily depending on review sites? Case in point: DPR's review of RX100 makes it look great in studio scene. But go and read how many people had issue with multiple copies showing heavy optical misalignment for objects at infinity. Imaging-Resource mentioned in their review they noticed it but DPR didn't mention anything.

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ZoranC
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Re: Canon G15 vs G12 vs P7700 studio comparison tool
In reply to Grobb, Nov 8, 2012

tron555 wrote:

I have also noticed at default settings, the P7700 does take sharper pictures than the G15/G12. I think that could be resolved by:

  1. Shooting in P-mode and increasing the in camera sharpness by +1 or +2, if needed.
  2. Shooting in P-mode and changing the setting to Superfine quality instead of Fine quality.
  3. Shooting in RAW and sharpening in PP'ing.
  4. Shooting in JPG and sharpening in PP'ing.

There is nothing really wrong with the P7700, and I do like the swivel screen and much better reach! The only way the P7700 can compare with the G15 (IMO) is to always shoot RAW since it's JPG's do NOT have the same IQ. I would be interesting to see some full size images with shots made at different setting to see if or how much of a difference it makes, hint, hint

Kind of smearing my test photos show can't be "resolved" by increasing sharpness.

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Dimitri Khoz
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Re: Canon G15 vs G12 vs P7700 studio comparison tool
In reply to ZoranC, Nov 8, 2012

ZoranC wrote:

tron555 wrote:

I have also noticed at default settings, the P7700 does take sharper pictures than the G15/G12. I think that could be resolved by:

  1. Shooting in P-mode and increasing the in camera sharpness by +1 or +2, if needed.
  2. Shooting in P-mode and changing the setting to Superfine quality instead of Fine quality.
  3. Shooting in RAW and sharpening in PP'ing.
  4. Shooting in JPG and sharpening in PP'ing.

There is nothing really wrong with the P7700, and I do like the swivel screen and much better reach! The only way the P7700 can compare with the G15 (IMO) is to always shoot RAW since it's JPG's do NOT have the same IQ. I would be interesting to see some full size images with shots made at different setting to see if or how much of a difference it makes, hint, hint

Kind of smearing my test photos show can't be "resolved" by increasing sharpness.

IR have made real world test as well

and there were no smearing to find in the samples.

Here is one from the corner at wide angle



G15

P7700

Subtile difference in sharpness and WB,

but I could not find any significant difference between the two.

Looks like both G15 and P7700 have similar amount of details at low ISO.

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Robert Garcia NYC
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Re: Canon G15 vs G12 vs P7700 studio comparison tool
In reply to Dimitri Khoz, Nov 8, 2012

Dimitri Khoz wrote:

ZoranC wrote:

tron555 wrote:

I have also noticed at default settings, the P7700 does take sharper pictures than the G15/G12. I think that could be resolved by:

  1. Shooting in P-mode and increasing the in camera sharpness by +1 or +2, if needed.
  2. Shooting in P-mode and changing the setting to Superfine quality instead of Fine quality.
  3. Shooting in RAW and sharpening in PP'ing.
  4. Shooting in JPG and sharpening in PP'ing.

There is nothing really wrong with the P7700, and I do like the swivel screen and much better reach! The only way the P7700 can compare with the G15 (IMO) is to always shoot RAW since it's JPG's do NOT have the same IQ. I would be interesting to see some full size images with shots made at different setting to see if or how much of a difference it makes, hint, hint

Kind of smearing my test photos show can't be "resolved" by increasing sharpness.

IR have made real world test as well

and there were no smearing to find in the samples.

Here is one from the corner at wide angle



G15

P7700

Subtile difference in sharpness and WB,

but I could not find any significant difference between the two.

Looks like both G15 and P7700 have similar amount of details at low ISO.

More misinformation. On my part of the world the p7700 has more detail. Back away from screen a few feet and take another look.

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ZoranC
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Re: Canon G15 vs G12 vs P7700 studio comparison tool
In reply to Dimitri Khoz, Nov 8, 2012

Dimitri Khoz wrote:

ZoranC wrote:

tron555 wrote:

I have also noticed at default settings, the P7700 does take sharper pictures than the G15/G12. I think that could be resolved by:

  1. Shooting in P-mode and increasing the in camera sharpness by +1 or +2, if needed.
  2. Shooting in P-mode and changing the setting to Superfine quality instead of Fine quality.
  3. Shooting in RAW and sharpening in PP'ing.
  4. Shooting in JPG and sharpening in PP'ing.

There is nothing really wrong with the P7700, and I do like the swivel screen and much better reach! The only way the P7700 can compare with the G15 (IMO) is to always shoot RAW since it's JPG's do NOT have the same IQ. I would be interesting to see some full size images with shots made at different setting to see if or how much of a difference it makes, hint, hint

Kind of smearing my test photos show can't be "resolved" by increasing sharpness.

IR have made real world test as well

and there were no smearing to find in the samples.

1. I see these shots were taken at 2.8 while mine were taken at F2. That starts to mix up things, closing down aperture increases DOF and thus hides optical misalignment and curvature of the field that will rear their head once you want to shoot wide open. And you do want to shoot wide open that fast lens they are selling you on when you need it, don't you?

2. I don't care did somebody end up with shot that doesn't show smearing for them, what I care about is that two copies I had in my hands in the row did have smearing. If two random picks of the shelf result in both copies showing smearing I can't praise that camera as "sharp", sorry.

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Dimitri Khoz
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Re: Canon G15 vs G12 vs P7700 studio comparison tool
In reply to Robert Garcia NYC, Nov 8, 2012

Robert Garcia NYC wrote:


More misinformation. On my part of the world the p7700 has more detail. Back away from screen a few feet and take another look.

Canon does not change sharpening settings when switched from Standard to Neutral or Vivid.

Nikon, on the other hand, increases in-camera sharpening by +1 when switched from Neutral to Standard, and to +2 when switched to Vivid.

Nikon's output is a tad oversharpened by default when using Standard JPEG settings.

Also it has less DR than G15:

"... the P7700 recorded slightly lower dynamic range numbers than its direct competitors, including the Canon G15 and Olympus XZ-2. At base ISO, it captured 6.79 stops of “high-quality” dynamic range, which is about 1 stop less than we’ve seen from the best performers in this test."

Also it has a bit worse Auto White Balance. I am not a fan correcting it for every third picture I make.

Also, look and the purple-bluish colors that are sometimes to be found in the high contrast areas of the image.



Nikon P7700 Purple Halos - Real World

This is REAL world.

Nikon P7700 is a great camera that stil has some small let-downs.

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ZoranC
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Re: Canon G15 vs G12 vs P7700 studio comparison tool
In reply to Dimitri Khoz, Nov 8, 2012

Dimitri Khoz wrote: This is REAL world.

And so are my shots. And in that real world shots I have taken with G15 did have smearing while ones taken with P7700 didn't. Review sites can say whatever they want but G15 didn't cut it for me.

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Robert Garcia NYC
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Re: Canon G15 vs G12 vs P7700 studio comparison tool
In reply to ZoranC, Nov 8, 2012

ZoranC wrote:

Dimitri Khoz wrote: This is REAL world.

And so are my shots. And in that real world shots I have taken with G15 did have smearing while ones taken with P7700 didn't. Review sites can say whatever they want but G15 didn't cut it for me.

D,

That's real world right there. Dimitri stop being an arm chair photographer and just call it like it is. The Nikon is the better of the two.

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Dimitri Khoz
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Re: Canon G15 vs G12 vs P7700 studio comparison tool
In reply to Robert Garcia NYC, Nov 8, 2012

Robert Garcia NYC wrote: The Nikon is the better of the two.

Bigger, does not always mean better.

We need to wait for more testing results.

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ZoranC
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Re: Canon G15 vs G12 vs P7700 studio comparison tool
In reply to Dimitri Khoz, Nov 8, 2012

Dimitri Khoz wrote:

Robert Garcia NYC wrote: The Nikon is the better of the two.

Bigger, does not always mean better.

... and if size was only thing that mattered I would have kept G15 and sent back P7700 instead of keeping P7700 and sending back G15. And honestly, size difference is not that huge, I would rather have better VR, noticably longer reach, and better corners.

We need to wait for more testing results.

So if it fails try and try again until you get results you want to see?

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jimr
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Dimitri..Which Canon camera is Not the Best in each group? Any Canon camera not the best Dimitri ?
In reply to Dimitri Khoz, Nov 8, 2012
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Minh Ta
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Re: Canon G15 vs G12 vs P7700 studio comparison tool
In reply to ZoranC, Nov 9, 2012

ZoranC wrote:

1. I see these shots were taken at 2.8 while mine were taken at F2. That starts to mix up things, closing down aperture increases DOF and thus hides optical misalignment and curvature of the field that will rear their head once you want to shoot wide open. And you do want to shoot wide open that fast lens they are selling you on when you need it, don't you?

2. I don't care did somebody end up with shot that doesn't show smearing for them, what I care about is that two copies I had in my hands in the row did have smearing. If two random picks of the shelf result in both copies showing smearing I can't praise that camera as "sharp", sorry.

I see your points, it's F2. I've also got an impression that Nikon P7700 is sharper than G15 based on the sample shots from dcresource, but to be fair, I think we should compare RAW to RAW.

Given all this, however, I think you might be a bit extreme. I'm under no illusion that the small cameras (& cheapo) could possess an L lens. It's great that Nikon, and also Olympus, have taken the pain to put into these cameras very sharp lenses. However, the sharpest lens may not be the only decisive factor *for me*. For example, I see Oly's XZ-1 as a flop (noisy sensor), although it has one of the sharpest lenses among compact cameras.

As I see it, it might be a trade-off between the shooting speed and sharpness, and for the Canon G15, you may get some balance. If you want the sharpest picture: Fine, stop down the aperture (it's not uncommon to do so with DSLR). And as the reviewers have shown, the optimal sharpness on G15 can rival those on P7700. If you want speed (but may sacrifice the *corner* sharpness a bit), you have an option, and if you often shoot in low light, having the option could be critical. With the Nikon P7700, the story is a bit complicated as you gain a bit of zoom too. However, across the zoom range, P7700 loses 1/3-2/3 stop w.r.t Canon G15 (their sensors are basically similar in noise performance).

So there you have it, my opinion. I think both Canon G15 and Nikon P7700 are great cameras. And of course, the image quality will never achieve that from a DSLR. So the remaining choices are those "little" trade-off that may work for some people with a certain set of features, others with another set of features. Be happy with your choice!

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utomo99
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New Sensor, Better Lens Why Not better RAW ?
In reply to Dimitri Khoz, Nov 9, 2012

If we look at that, yes the G15 Jpeg is better.

But can somebody explain why is the RAW is bad ?

G15 have Newer sensor technology

G15 use better Lens

It should produce better RAW compared to the G12

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Grobb
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Re: New Sensor, Better Lens Why Not better RAW ?
In reply to utomo99, Nov 9, 2012

Yes, Jpeg’s do look very good because of the new processor 5 vs 4, just not sharp enough.

Newer senor does not always mean “better” sensor, just faster and cheaper to produce.

The lens is very good, just needs to go from 140 – 200mm to be a really great lens.

IF the sensor was 2/3 – 1/1.2”, images would be MUCH better than all of it’s competition

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