This is gonna upset some of you.....

Started Nov 5, 2012 | Discussions
JRDavis
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Re: This is gonna upset some of you.....
In reply to RomanJohnston, Nov 5, 2012

Roman,

The post you refer to is correct the 800 is better than the 300 and it should be. What that post doesn't say, in any way, is that the D300 doesn't take a great image, of course it does. But there are many reasons the 800 is far better.

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John

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JRDavis
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Re: This is gonna upset some of you.....
In reply to RomanJohnston, Nov 5, 2012

Roman,

If and when you do in fact purchase an 800/e you will see all the differences between the cameras. Shooting for a few minutes with a borrowed camera hardly makes for a qualified comparison.

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John

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Rick Knepper
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Are you kidding me with this?
In reply to xrdbear, Nov 5, 2012

xrdbear wrote:

Rick Knepper wrote:

RomanJohnston wrote:

Rick Knepper wrote:


Then post your newbie-ass BS on the crop forum where folks need the validation even if it is false. What do you [possible hope to gain from such a ridiculous comparison?

What do you hope to gain by being so unnecessarily rude?

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Brian
Fine Art Print sales of the Isle of Skye at:
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I was trying to be helpful in my first post  because he does not appear to know the first thing about digital imaging and maybe you do not either. But was his repsonse to my initial post not belligerent and rude to begin with?

Here's his response (which you conveniently chose to omit):

"Oh please...I got a shot of the entire falls in my D300 as well. This is just the one I processed. This is not about crop...its about quality...any lens can be bought for either system to get the desired results."

This entire paragraph is a ridiculous statement which he will quietly distance himself from over time.

What I hope to gain? that he will think twice next time about posting a smart-ass response to me or anyone else who is trying to help him.

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Rick Knepper, photographer, non-professional, shooting for pleasure, check my profile for gear list and philosophy.

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Aborigene
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Re: This is gonna upset some of you.....
In reply to RomanJohnston, Nov 5, 2012

Oh no Roman... You converted yourself to the dark side...

Funny though, some guys don't even have a clue about the "joke" behind the title... Mainly because some joined not long ago and not used to see someone that has been for ages posting something like this! Oh dear...

can wait to see more and more pics Roman. Really happy for you!

Cheers

Vini

RomanJohnston wrote:

You all know...my D800 days ARE coming. (D800E to be exact) but there are always arguments from and about people and needing gear vs. wanting gear......better cameras = better work....blah blah blah.

Here are two shots. I was at the gardens and a very nice fellow had a D800 where I was shooting and we struck up a conversation. He was nice enough to allow me to put my card in his rig and rip off a few rounds. Below are similar results. D300 is the tighter crop, D800 is the wider shot of the whole falls.

Keep in mind this is geared toward the people who say they only post on the web or print small. Yes I know this is anything but scientific...yes I know I can print MUCH larger with the D800 shot. But in the DX vs. FX world.....and considering these two cameras are about 6.5 years of technology apart (huge in dog years) the end result can easily show that both cameras are very capable and that you dont need the newest and most amazing wizbang camera to produce compelling results.

Flame retardant suit is on....so let er rip.

D300 shot...( purposfully desaturated the reds a bit)

D800 Shot

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RomanJohnston
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Re: Are you kidding me with this?
In reply to Rick Knepper, Nov 5, 2012

Rick Knepper wrote:

xrdbear wrote:

Rick Knepper wrote:

RomanJohnston wrote:

Rick Knepper wrote:


Then post your newbie-ass BS on the crop forum where folks need the validation even if it is false. What do you [possible hope to gain from such a ridiculous comparison?

What do you hope to gain by being so unnecessarily rude?

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Brian
Fine Art Print sales of the Isle of Skye at:
http://www.eyeofskye.co.uk/

I was trying to be helpful in my first post because he does not appear to know the first thing about digital imaging and maybe you do not either. But was his repsonse to my initial post not belligerent and rude to begin with?

Here's his response (which you conveniently chose to omit):

"Oh please...I got a shot of the entire falls in my D300 as well. This is just the one I processed. This is not about crop...its about quality...any lens can be bought for either system to get the desired results."

This entire paragraph is a ridiculous statement which he will quietly distance himself from over time.

What I hope to gain? that he will think twice next time about posting a smart-ass response to me or anyone else who is trying to help him.

-- hide signature --

Rick Knepper, photographer, non-professional, shooting for pleasure, check my profile for gear list and philosophy.

That was help? Maybe I misunderstood. I have been here helping people in the forums including this one (D2H and D2X in the past) for quite a few years. My work stands on its own two feet....

Simple point is that gear does not matter as much as so many misunderstand. I thought the output of both cameras on a scene I have recorded with a Hassy MF back (40 MP at the time), Now D800, D300, D2X, D2H, D70

Will post all that I have later....I was most interested in the MF and the D800 comparison that I will post soon. These just happened to be the first ones I processed. So will provide more later.

My apologies if I seemed a bit snarky .

Roman

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RomanJohnston
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Have hassy 40MP of same scene and all the other cameras over time
In reply to RomanJohnston, Nov 5, 2012

I know I have a D70 shot, a D2X, D300, now D800 and Hassy with 40MP back.

Will play with the resolution and full crops from the D800 and Hassy and D300 for fun later...obviously for those interested.

For those NOT interested....just move on and make the forums here more civilized....

And to those who I knew would come out of the woodwork (IE 4x5 guy) gimme your best shot...you will soon find that it rolls off like water on a ducks back.

Have a good one guys...I am here to stay...only thing you need to figure out is your relationship with that.

My intention is to help....and provide fun and hopefully interesting posts. Been on the forums since 2004 and would like to see a forum that is as helpful as it was back then. Lately its just a place of discontent....lets do what we can to change that.

Roman

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Rick Knepper
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C'mon Roman
In reply to RomanJohnston, Nov 5, 2012

RomanJohnston wrote:

Rick Knepper wrote:

RomanJohnston wrote:

Rick Knepper wrote:

RomanJohnston wrote:

You all know...my D800 days ARE coming. (D800E to be exact) but there are always arguments from and about people and needing gear vs. wanting gear......better cameras = better work....blah blah blah.

Here are two shots. I was at the gardens and a very nice fellow had a D800 where I was shooting and we struck up a conversation. He was nice enough to allow me to put my card in his rig and rip off a few rounds. Below are similar results. D600 is the tighter crop, D800 is the wider shot of the whole falls.

Keep in mind this is geared toward the people who say they only post on the web or print small. Yes I know this is anything but scientific...yes I know I can print MUCH larger with the D800 shot. But in the DX vs. FX world.....and considering these two cameras are about 6.5 years of technology apart (huge in dog years) the end result can easily show that both cameras are very capable and that you dont need the newest and most amazing wizbang camera to produce compelling results.

Flame retardant suit is on....so let er rip.

D300 shot...( purposfully desaturated the reds a bit)

D800 Shot

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The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious; It is the source of all true art and science.
~ Albert Einstein
http://www.commercialfineart.com/
http://www.pbase.com/romansphotos/

Even if you print so small as to hide it. I also see that you could get the entire fall into the D800 frame in landscape. Then, if you want the D300 framing, snip snip.

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Rick Knepper, photographer, non-professional, shooting for pleasure, check my profile for gear list and philosophy.

Oh please...I got a shot of the entire falls in my D300 as well. This is just the one I processed. This is not about crop...its about quality...any lens can be bought for either system to get the desired results.

Roman

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The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious; It is the source of all true art and science.
~ Albert Einstein
http://www.commercialfineart.com/
http://www.pbase.com/romansphotos/

Then post your newbie-ass BS on the crop forum where folks need the validation even if it is false. What do you [possible hope to gain from such a ridiculous comparison?

LOL...far from being a newbie...been on here as long as you my friend and opposite of you I DO sell my work and have a very valid point I am making. If you have nothing nice to say....move along.

Your response only reflects poorly on yourself.

Roman

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The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious; It is the source of all true art and science.
~ Albert Einstein
http://www.commercialfineart.com/
http://www.pbase.com/romansphotos/

You could be a 30 year veteran photographer for all I know but you come across like stone-cold newbie with regards to digital imaging in this thread. Maybe you meant something else by the term "compelling". Okay educate me.

I tried to be nice in my initial post but my efforts angered you. I honestly thought you were confused. I guess you are a regular here considering all of the sycophants who came to your rescue, but I would say that if you are so thin-skinned, maybe you should move along. I mean, you knew you were going to get slapped, look at your subject line for God's sake.

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Rick Knepper, photographer, non-professional, shooting for pleasure, check my profile for gear list and philosophy.

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jfriend00
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Re: This is gonna upset some of you.....
In reply to verybiglebowski, Nov 5, 2012

verybiglebowski wrote:

First of all, you proved to be a very good photographer. Your conclusion is however a bit missleading. There are many aspects where D800E is much better than D300 and few where D300 keeps the advantage. Size, price, speed i.e.

You are comparing two hammers that can fix the nail. For this particular nail - your waterfall shot and web sized output, they might be equally effective. But there are many situations, where one or the other will show its advantage.

Therefore I do not understand the meaning and tone of your OP. Why it should upset me?

Let's see if we can have the same output at billboard size print, will the DR if shadows are needed to be pushed up, be the same, will I be able if needed, to crop out the same amount of the image etc. Can I get in studio the same shallow DOF for portrait when the space is limitation?

Different tools for different jobs. But for many jobs any can be used. It's that simple. No reason for anyone to feel upset IMO.

Well said.  Different tools have different advantages in different circumstances.  We all know there are a number of things that a d800 is better than a d300 at (super large prints, DR, high ISO) and some things I'd rather have my d300 for (fast action daytime sports) and many situations where there would be no appreciable difference in final result.

If I was predominantly shooting landscapes (like most of the amazing work I've seen from Roman) and the cost of the equipment was not the main decision factor, I'd probably want a d800 or d800e for that as there are more landscape circumstances where the advantages of the d800 will help.

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RomanJohnston
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Re: C'mon Roman
In reply to Rick Knepper, Nov 5, 2012

Rick Knepper wrote:

RomanJohnston wrote:

Rick Knepper wrote:

RomanJohnston wrote:

Rick Knepper wrote:

RomanJohnston wrote:

You all know...my D800 days ARE coming. (D800E to be exact) but there are always arguments from and about people and needing gear vs. wanting gear......better cameras = better work....blah blah blah.

Here are two shots. I was at the gardens and a very nice fellow had a D800 where I was shooting and we struck up a conversation. He was nice enough to allow me to put my card in his rig and rip off a few rounds. Below are similar results. D600 is the tighter crop, D800 is the wider shot of the whole falls.

Keep in mind this is geared toward the people who say they only post on the web or print small. Yes I know this is anything but scientific...yes I know I can print MUCH larger with the D800 shot. But in the DX vs. FX world.....and considering these two cameras are about 6.5 years of technology apart (huge in dog years) the end result can easily show that both cameras are very capable and that you dont need the newest and most amazing wizbang camera to produce compelling results.

Flame retardant suit is on....so let er rip.

D300 shot...( purposfully desaturated the reds a bit)

D800 Shot

-- hide signature --

The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious; It is the source of all true art and science.
~ Albert Einstein
http://www.commercialfineart.com/
http://www.pbase.com/romansphotos/

Even if you print so small as to hide it. I also see that you could get the entire fall into the D800 frame in landscape. Then, if you want the D300 framing, snip snip.

-- hide signature --

Rick Knepper, photographer, non-professional, shooting for pleasure, check my profile for gear list and philosophy.

Oh please...I got a shot of the entire falls in my D300 as well. This is just the one I processed. This is not about crop...its about quality...any lens can be bought for either system to get the desired results.

Roman

-- hide signature --

The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious; It is the source of all true art and science.
~ Albert Einstein
http://www.commercialfineart.com/
http://www.pbase.com/romansphotos/

Then post your newbie-ass BS on the crop forum where folks need the validation even if it is false. What do you [possible hope to gain from such a ridiculous comparison?

LOL...far from being a newbie...been on here as long as you my friend and opposite of you I DO sell my work and have a very valid point I am making. If you have nothing nice to say....move along.

Your response only reflects poorly on yourself.

Roman

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The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious; It is the source of all true art and science.
~ Albert Einstein
http://www.commercialfineart.com/
http://www.pbase.com/romansphotos/

You could be a 30 year veteran photographer for all I know but you come across like stone-cold newbie with regards to digital imaging in this thread. Maybe you meant something else by the term "compelling". Okay educate me.

I tried to be nice in my initial post but my efforts angered you. I honestly thought you were confused. I guess you are a regular here considering all of the sycophants who came to your rescue, but I would say that if you are so thin-skinned, maybe you should move along. I mean, you knew you were going to get slapped, look at your subject line for God's sake.

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Rick Knepper, photographer, non-professional, shooting for pleasure, check my profile for gear list and philosophy.

Guess you didn't read the thread above when I apologized to you. I think we got off on the wrong foot. My bad.

Meaning this post here.

Roman

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The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious; It is the source of all true art and science.
~ Albert Einstein
http://www.commercialfineart.com/
http://www.pbase.com/romansphotos/

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verybiglebowski
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Re: This is gonna upset some of you.....
In reply to RomanJohnston, Nov 5, 2012

RomanJohnston wrote:


I am not rude. You said that it did upset some, and that's why you post it with such a title. I am saying that your conclusion is missleading, but you insist that it does upset some. That's flaming for me.

Ok...have fun with that definition.

On the Internet flaming is giving someone a verbal lashing in public

I did no such thing.

Roman

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The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious; It is the source of all true art and science.
~ Albert Einstein
http://www.commercialfineart.com/
http://www.pbase.com/romansphotos/

You mean your original definition : "Flame retardant suit is on....so let er rip."

Look, I don't want to start even more senseless debate with you, I just don't see any point in your OP the way you presented it. On the other hand, I can imagine a nice debate - what are benefits and dissadvantages of using APS-C or even smaller sensor size, versus FF for the landscape, or for some other situation.

I can make technically great landscape shot with even smaller and cheaper camera such as NEX 5, and many others can do even better with m4/3 or 1" cameras. What I can't understand, from a talented and experienced person like you, are posts involving the most senseless debates - which camera is better, or - you should be upset because you spent more money for the D800 and D300 can do equally well.  You are too good photographer for such a childish thread.

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olyflyer
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Re: This is gonna upset some of you.....
In reply to RomanJohnston, Nov 5, 2012

RomanJohnston wrote:

You all know...my D800 days ARE coming. (D800E to be exact) but there are always arguments from and about people and needing gear vs. wanting gear......better cameras = better work....blah blah blah.

Here are two shots. I was at the gardens and a very nice fellow had a D800 where I was shooting and we struck up a conversation. He was nice enough to allow me to put my card in his rig and rip off a few rounds. Below are similar results. D300 is the tighter crop, D800 is the wider shot of the whole falls.

Keep in mind this is geared toward the people who say they only post on the web or print small. Yes I know this is anything but scientific...yes I know I can print MUCH larger with the D800 shot. But in the DX vs. FX world.....and considering these two cameras are about 6.5 years of technology apart (huge in dog years) the end result can easily show that both cameras are very capable and that you dont need the newest and most amazing wizbang camera to produce compelling results.

Flame retardant suit is on....so let er rip.

D300 shot...( purposfully desaturated the reds a bit)

D800 Shot

Even at this very small image size to me it is obvious that the D800 has considerably more DR, yet these images have quite low contrast. Never the less, if you think the D300 is enough for you fine, keep it. Why start a thread about it? Who are you trying to convince?

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olyflyer
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Re: I have got both cameras...
In reply to Shaun432x, Nov 5, 2012

Shaun432x wrote:

The D800 is light years better than the D300!

It is so much better that I cannot put it into words!

It is so much better that I bought 2 x D800's and my D300 sits in a drawer as a back-up, back-up!

I sold mine just days after I got the D800. I had the D300s, but sure, the D800 is really ahead of that too.

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John M Roberts
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Re: "newbie-ass BS" or "Oh please" which is belligerent?
In reply to Rick Knepper, Nov 5, 2012

Rick Knepper wrote:

xrdbear wrote:

Rick Knepper wrote:

RomanJohnston wrote:

Rick Knepper wrote:


Then post your newbie-ass BS on the crop forum where folks need the validation even if it is false. What do you [possible hope to gain from such a ridiculous comparison?

What do you hope to gain by being so unnecessarily rude?

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Brian
Fine Art Print sales of the Isle of Skye at:
http://www.eyeofskye.co.uk/

I was trying to be helpful in my first post because he does not appear to know the first thing about digital imaging and maybe you do not either. But was his repsonse to my initial post not belligerent and rude to begin with?

Here's his response (which you conveniently chose to omit):

"Oh please...I got a shot of the entire falls in my D300 as well. This is just the one I processed. This is not about crop...its about quality...any lens can be bought for either system to get the desired results."

This entire paragraph is a ridiculous statement which he will quietly distance himself from over time.

What I hope to gain? that he will think twice next time about posting a smart-ass response to me or anyone else who is trying to help him.

-- hide signature --

Rick Knepper, photographer, non-professional, shooting for pleasure, check my profile for gear list and philosophy.

Rick, "Oh Please..." can hardly be taken as belligerent. It had some attitude I will admit but nothing near to your attack response which surprises me especially that it came from a computer consultant. Why couldn't you maintain some professional composure as you most certainly would for your clients?

Now to say Roman appears not to know the first thing about digital imaging from his post is such a stretch. And if he or even I don't, so what? His statement was made to a specific criteria. Who needs to be a mastermind at digital imaging to understand his point. His product which I and many others admire does speak for itself. I checked your profile and found little to represent your capabilities and even if you had great images to share, your conduct would still not be warranted.

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Tung Chung
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Re: This is gonna upset some of you.....
In reply to RomanJohnston, Nov 5, 2012

Nice to see you here Roman, remember you many years ago in the D70/D300 forums. I see the point you're making, both cameras in capable hands returns equally capable results, D300 is far from retirement!

Look forward to your future posts and examples..... And replies from the usual verbal bashers

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SergeyGreen
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I like them both
In reply to RomanJohnston, Nov 5, 2012

Roman,

It is too difficult to judge with this size images and with minimum post-processing in them. In fact downsampling makes them look as if they are from the same camera, but we all know that sharpening alone, as an example, is completely different for each of them.

Nice images though.

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-sergey

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John M Roberts
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Re: This is gonna upset some of you.....
In reply to verybiglebowski, Nov 5, 2012

verybiglebowski wrote:

You mean your original definition : "Flame retardant suit is on....so let er rip."

Look, I don't want to start even more senseless debate with you, I just don't see any point in your OP the way you presented it. On the other hand, I can imagine a nice debate - what are benefits and dissadvantages of using APS-C or even smaller sensor size, versus FF for the landscape, or for some other situation.

I can make technically great landscape shot with even smaller and cheaper camera such as NEX 5, and many others can do even better with m4/3 or 1" cameras. What I can't understand, from a talented and experienced person like you, are posts involving the most senseless debates - which camera is better, or - you should be upset because you spent more money for the D800 and D300 can do equally well. You are too good photographer for such a childish thread.

You make some reasonable suggestions as to how to display a post without encouraging flame. I did not comprehend his original point as to say that the differences between the D800's and earlier models were pointless or to your interpretation of his point "which camera is better." He just stated within a particular parameter the differences could be slight for some who don't utilize it to a greater potential. I'm sure there is no doubt in his mind how much more beneficial that camera will be in his hands than what his D300 is.

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John M Roberts
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Re: both are great shots :)
In reply to Devendra, Nov 5, 2012

Devendra wrote:

so no contest in this scenario!

Exactly and that's the point he was making. Not that the D800 doesn't have overall technological advancements to its capability over previous models.

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Daniel Clune
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For web use sure
In reply to RomanJohnston, Nov 5, 2012

For web use a D800 wouldn't be any better than a D300 unless you get way up there in ISO. But for large prints the D800 would be way better. Only other reason for upgrading camera are better focus system or better video again for web use.

So sure your correct. If all you do is web use I would spend my money on lenses to get what you need.

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Theodoros Fotometria
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Re: "newbie-ass BS" or "Oh please" which is belligerent?
In reply to John M Roberts, Nov 5, 2012

John M Roberts wrote:

Rick Knepper wrote:

xrdbear wrote:

Rick Knepper wrote:

RomanJohnston wrote:

Rick Knepper wrote:


Then post your newbie-ass BS on the crop forum where folks need the validation even if it is false. What do you [possible hope to gain from such a ridiculous comparison?

What do you hope to gain by being so unnecessarily rude?

-- hide signature --

Brian
Fine Art Print sales of the Isle of Skye at:
http://www.eyeofskye.co.uk/

I was trying to be helpful in my first post because he does not appear to know the first thing about digital imaging and maybe you do not either. But was his repsonse to my initial post not belligerent and rude to begin with?

Here's his response (which you conveniently chose to omit):

"Oh please...I got a shot of the entire falls in my D300 as well. This is just the one I processed. This is not about crop...its about quality...any lens can be bought for either system to get the desired results."

This entire paragraph is a ridiculous statement which he will quietly distance himself from over time.

What I hope to gain? that he will think twice next time about posting a smart-ass response to me or anyone else who is trying to help him.

-- hide signature --

Rick Knepper, photographer, non-professional, shooting for pleasure, check my profile for gear list and philosophy.

Rick, "Oh Please..." can hardly be taken as belligerent. It had some attitude I will admit but nothing near to your attack response which surprises me especially that it came from a computer consultant. Why couldn't you maintain some professional composure as you most certainly would for your clients?

Now to say Roman appears not to know the first thing about digital imaging from his post is such a stretch. And if he or even I don't, so what? His statement was made to a specific criteria. Who needs to be a mastermind at digital imaging to understand his point. His product which I and many others admire does speak for itself. I checked your profile and found little to represent your capabilities and even if you had great images to share, your conduct would still not be warranted.

I am sure that Rick and Roman are capable of settling this out through PMs, I am pretty sure that any misunderstanding between them was just that... a misunderstanding! ..."Different sense", "word for word", "post to post" these things can happened without ever being wanted by either... It almost happened between me and you John once ....and it was purely my fault due to the extensive attack I had to overcome by the well known trolls that I now can see that everyone ignores...

Come on guys... this community needs good, valid people like you both are... trolls are multiplying around us all the time, there is no space for misunderstandings to advance into "fighting with windmills"... we are all (well... many of us anyway..)  photographers here and we understand about art better so to get the "Don Chichotte" message...

After all... Cesar was only a ...Roman according to Asterix! ...and Rick can also be a Gaul ...name! ...it's Brute that should all take care to avoid!

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Theodoros
www.fotometria.gr
www.fotometriawedding.gr

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xrdbear
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,686
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Re: Have hassy 40MP of same scene and all the other cameras over time
In reply to RomanJohnston, Nov 5, 2012

RomanJohnston wrote:

My intention is to help....and provide fun and hopefully interesting posts. Been on the forums since 2004 and would like to see a forum that is as helpful as it was back then. Lately its just a place of discontent....lets do what we can to change that.

Roman

Not that I'm religious but amen to that.

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Brian
Fine Art Print sales of the Isle of Skye at:
http://www.eyeofskye.co.uk/

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