A99 vs D600: High ISO comparison

Started Oct 22, 2012 | Discussions
Michel J
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A99 vs D600: High ISO comparison
Oct 22, 2012

12'800 ISO, but which is wich?

(Below, see also 6400 ISO comparison)

Hi folks,

All in All (but considering the in-camera noise results first) such as sharpness VS noise reduction + colour rendition & 3D effect, which one is the best to your side? Here some crops:

12'800 ISO (A99 to the left VS D600 to the right - for all) click to "Original view" to enlarge!

If you take a look to imaging-resource.com/ you probably will be amazed about what the today generation of sensors is good (for both: A99 and D600).

Moreover, what is a good news for the rest of us: we glad to know how much Sony progress well underway on noise reduction and in-camera algorithms.

6400 ISO (A99 to the left VS D600 to the right - for all) click to "Original view" to enlarge!

What do you think folks?

Kind Regards,

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Michel J

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TristanW
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Re: A99 vs D600: High ISO comparison
In reply to Michel J, Oct 22, 2012

Thanks for the Great  efforts of sharing!

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Eleson
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Move On! :D
In reply to Michel J, Oct 22, 2012

Thanks for the effort, this was great to see. Thanks!

Seriously, if noise is a dealbreaker for A-99 , I'd like to see what the need is.

( And what lens is used, plz don't come dragging with a f/5.6 lens )

Now, let's discuss the camera properties, instead of the film properties

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Cheers Erland

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Nordstjernen
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Both are very good!
In reply to Michel J, Oct 22, 2012

No reason to jump ship, neiter from Sony to Nikon nor from Nikon to Sony!

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chrisfromalaska
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Re: A99 vs D600: High ISO comparison
In reply to Michel J, Oct 22, 2012

In some areas the A99 is superior and in some the D600 is superior, interesting to see how Sony and Nikon treat colors differently with the same sensor.  Nothing but impressed with how much detail the A99 resolves in comparison since the SLT is supposedly a disadvantage, but in many areas it tops the D600.

Trolls can keep on trolling, but they need to get over some strange inferiority complex with the A99/D600, the A99 is an incredible camera, this is my first Sony DSLR and I can't wait for mine to ship.

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Kiril Karaatanasov
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Who cares about iso with this price difference
In reply to Michel J, Oct 22, 2012

I am very disappointed with a99 pricing. It is a hefty amount more expensive. I am now selling my aps-c gear a700 and about 7 lenses. I am wondering if the full frame lenses ought to go too and just buy d600.

pi will really miss stabilization but....

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Eleson
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Re: Who cares about iso with this price difference
In reply to Kiril Karaatanasov, Oct 22, 2012

Kiril Karaatanasov wrote:

I am very disappointed with a99 pricing. It is a hefty amount more expensive. I am now selling my aps-c gear a700 and about 7 lenses. I am wondering if the full frame lenses ought to go too and just buy d600.

pi will really miss stabilization but....

You buy a whole package when you buy, if you don't like it then there's nothin' anyone can do about that.

I'm fairly sure the AF system will be better on the A99, I know that AF speed in Liveview mode will be wastly superior.

It is easy to take for granted that Liveview AF and ovf/evf based will be the same after using an SLT for a while...

If you want any stabilized lenses faster than 2.8 than don't go for Canon, not sure about Nikon.

Maybe full HD 50/60p video is not for you.

Maybe the higher flash synch speed has no value, maybe the top speed of 1/4000 doesn't bother you.

Do whatever feels right.

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Maxeyesore
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Re: Who cares about iso with this price difference
In reply to Kiril Karaatanasov, Oct 22, 2012

Kiril Karaatanasov wrote:

I am very disappointed with a99 pricing. It is a hefty amount more expensive. I am now selling my aps-c gear a700 and about 7 lenses. I am wondering if the full frame lenses ought to go too and just buy d600.

pi will really miss stabilization but....

I hope you are happy if you do sell off. I bought into a different system and I have not been happier. About IS, I still have it on pentax, but honestly I hardly use it. I have compared shots with it and without, and as long as shutter speed is up to standard, you get sharper results with it off. I only use it for low light and low shutter speed shooting, when edges are going to be softer anyways.

Sony is supposed to be a great system in terms of AF and tracking, with LV always working for you. This should be good for sports shooting, when shutters are high and tracking is tracking things. I mean afterall, lets be honest 12 fps isn't designed with studio portraits in mind. If somebody buys a camera with sports in mind, IS is about worthless, hence why Nikon hasn't jumped on board, and why the 7D is fine without it.

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To see is to believe...PENTAX

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Kiril Karaatanasov
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Sony don't have good af let alone tracking
In reply to Maxeyesore, Oct 22, 2012

Maxeyesore wrote:

Sony is supposed to be a great system in terms of AF and tracking, with LV always working for you. This should be good for sports shooting, when shutters are high and tracking is tracking things. I mean afterall, lets be honest 12 fps isn't designed with studio portraits in mind. If somebody buys a camera with sports in mind, IS is about worthless, hence why Nikon hasn't jumped on board, and why the 7D is fine without it.

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To see is to believe...PENTAX

I tried a99 and it is vast improvement to Sony af but some of the af params can't match 5 year old d700

I liked the camera but price is awfully wrong nex-5n offers about same video for fifth of the price.... This is modern full frame entry model a99. A nice one though lacking in many regards and price oghtought be much lower.....

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Lucas_
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Re: Who cares about iso with this price difference
In reply to Kiril Karaatanasov, Oct 22, 2012

Kiril Karaatanasov wrote:

I am very disappointed with a99 pricing. It is a hefty amount more expensive. I am now selling my aps-c gear a700 and about 7 lenses. I am wondering if the full frame lenses ought to go too and just buy d600.

pi will really miss stabilization but....

I guess you didn't really get it, the OP comparison is only to show how the noise control has improved on Sony sensors, independently of the camera where it's mounted! There's no sense in comparing these two cameras since they are at very different levels of features and technology. As far as that goes, the A99 is actually at the N D800 and C 5D MK III level ( at least ).

Actually in this case the A99 ( in spite of negative comments on the "interference" of the fixed mirror (!) by some not-so-well informed or experienced posters ), shows the same and even better results than the other camera. I must add though that I don't really consider these comparisons using downloaded images from the internet of much value anyway. There's nothing like you trying both cameras yourself assuring your own set up and experience to reach a trustable conclusion.

... Lucas

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winedarksea
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Re: Who cares about iso with this price difference
In reply to Kiril Karaatanasov, Oct 22, 2012

There are a hundred reasons that the A99 costs $700 more than the D600, from superior build and weather sealing to ground-breaking AF to pro video. The D600 doesn't come close.

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winedarksea
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Re: Sony don't have good af let alone tracking
In reply to Kiril Karaatanasov, Oct 22, 2012

Kiril Karaatanasov wrote:

I tried a99 and it is vast improvement to Sony af but some of the af params can't match 5 year old d700

I liked the camera but price is awfully wrong nex-5n offers about same video for fifth of the price.... This is modern full frame entry model a99. A nice one though lacking in many regards and price oghtought be much lower.....

I have an A700, Kiril, and admit I haven't used an A77, to say nothing of an A99. But EVERYTHING I have read about the cameras says that the A700 AF system cannot touch even the A77--and the A99 AF is light years better still.

And the video on the A99 is far superior to the NEX-5N AND the A77. It's like night and day.

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Michel J
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Nooooooo
In reply to Maxeyesore, Oct 23, 2012

Maxeyesore wrote:

Kiril Karaatanasov wrote:

I am very disappointed with a99 pricing. It is a hefty amount more expensive. I am now selling my aps-c gear a700 and about 7 lenses. I am wondering if the full frame lenses ought to go too and just buy d600.

pi will really miss stabilization but....

I hope you are happy if you do sell off. I bought into a different system and I have not been happier. About IS, I still have it on pentax, but honestly I hardly use it. I have compared shots with it and without, and as long as shutter speed is up to standard, you get sharper results with it off. I only use it for low light and low shutter speed shooting, when edges are going to be softer anyways

It's a guess, because:
— the IS of Sony, stay in par with lens stabilisation  (up to 4 stops!) so it's a good system.
 — the previously named Anti-Shake, is the only one with a bargraph (five level) so we can shot when the level of "shaking" is as low as possible, what we can't do with other system...
— with this steady shot we can make a training to learn to know the best handling position when shooting (thanks to the baregraph), what we can't do with other systems.
— because it's predictive, we can use all the room what we can get for, what we can't do with another system, because we really don't know how far we may go too far.
— anyway, no Pentax provide some multi-levels baregraph.
— the first in-body IS DSLR was the KM-7D, then if Pentax have this system it's only because they have a license for using the patent imho...! So, that tell to me, it's the same system embedded in the Pentax camera, but without bargraph.
BTW THIS TOPIC IT'S NOTHING ABOUT PENTAX AS FAR AS I KNOW, so please give to us kindly some advice about the pictures between D600 VS A99. Or if not maybe you can open a dedicated thread according to your valuable opinion but not here (if you know what I mean...). Thanks to you.


Kind Regards.

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jonikon
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Re: A99 vs D600: High ISO comparison
In reply to Michel J, Oct 23, 2012

The Nikon D600 retains noticeably more detail at high ISO than the Sony a99 in these particular comparisons of JPEG output. You can really see it in the red cloth at 6400 ISO, where the a99 is smearing badly.  Nothing new here as Sony is has always had trouble with noise reduction smearing details with their JPEG engines. Although the difference shown here with the IR examples is much greater than I thought it would be,  I would expect that shooting RAW and post processing with the proper NR applied would close the IQ gap considerably between these two cameras. Still for $700 less,  there is no doubt that the the Nikon D600 has the better JPEG engine.

- Jon

http://forums.dpreview.com/files/t/TS560x560~9f4cb092a9884ffbb209d21c5213ca95

http://forums.dpreview.com/files/t/TS560x560~c15000c1e60e463c87f27c4eeb7ad4ef

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Amateur Sony Shooter
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Hard to tell which is which...
In reply to Michel J, Oct 23, 2012

That's good news for anyone concerned about A99's ISO performance. I would say from now on all the new generation Sony camera got vastly improved ISO noise handling, that including jpeg engine. On the other hand, I can't help but notice how small the whole AF points are squeezed in middle area, such a flawed design. I tested 5D3 today, it has serious impressive AF system, if Sony has it in A99 I would pay them another $200 in a heart beat.

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Kiril Karaatanasov
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D600 has the lens too
In reply to winedarksea, Oct 23, 2012

winedarksea wrote:

There are a hundred reasons that the A99 costs $700 more than the D600, from superior build and weather sealing to ground-breaking AF to pro video. The D600 doesn't come close.

D600 has waterproof body too and even some lenses with waterproofing. Motorized 85/1.8 is there too. A99 af is barely reaching close to D600 and definitely not advantage. Video on a99 is mediocre where D600 is flat disappointing so not big difference. Live View is nice but on its own and lacking ton of photography features leave me puzzled. A99 lacks basics like inervalometer, minimum shutter speed setting, tons of small customizations missing too. We get focus limiter that I love, single af is very fast indeed but all af points (even the fake ones) are in the center over tiny area like D600

To me sonySony need to immediately fix the price even then it is close call

Also in euEurope d800 is substantially cheaper

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RandyPD
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Re: A99 vs D600: High ISO comparison
In reply to jonikon, Oct 23, 2012

But at the same time, looking at the pinks and the browns, the Sony has more detail.

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Michel J
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Re: D600 has the lens too
In reply to Kiril Karaatanasov, Oct 23, 2012

Kiril Karaatanasov wrote:

winedarksea wrote:

There are a hundred reasons that the A99 costs $700 more than the D600, from superior build and weather sealing to ground-breaking AF to pro video. The D600 doesn't come close.

D600 has waterproof body too and even some lenses with waterproofing. Motorized 85/1.8 is there too. A99 af is barely reaching close to D600 and definitely not advantage. Video on a99 is mediocre where D600 is flat disappointing so not big difference. Live View is nice but on its own and lacking ton of photography features leave me puzzled. A99 lacks basics like inervalometer, minimum shutter speed setting, tons of small customizations missing too. We get focus limiter that I love, single af is very fast indeed but all af points (even the fake ones) are in the center over tiny area like D600

To me sonySony need to immediately fix the price even then it is close call

Nope, maybe you miss something Kiril. You can have an intervalometer by two different ways:
— trough the remote control (home made or third party);
— trough the computer link (because the A99 can be computer controlled);

Then after see the video of Charles-Michel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIVJCaRmKZM

Maybe you would change your opinion about the "pro" video ability of the A99. Probably the best DSLR ever.

I have really no idea about the other points that you specify... So yes, if you are that kind of techno geek who like many customization you would love the computer controlled feature!

So, no offense, but it seems that your message missing information more that this camera lacks features!

Kind Regards,

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Michel J
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Re: A99 vs D600: High ISO comparison
In reply to jonikon, Oct 23, 2012

jonikon wrote:

The Nikon D600 retains noticeably more detail at high ISO than the Sony a99 in these particular comparisons of JPEG output. You can really see it in the red cloth at 6400 ISO, where the a99 is smearing badly.  Nothing new here as Sony is has always had trouble with noise reduction smearing details with their JPEG engines. Although the difference shown here with the IR examples is much greater than I thought it would be,  I would expect that shooting RAW and post processing with the proper NR applied would close the IQ gap considerably between these two cameras. Still for $700 less,  there is no doubt that the the Nikon D600 has the better JPEG engine.

- Jon

Well Jon! Sorry, no offense, but your don't think that your opinion looks like a tad of obnubilation to the King Nikon?  Yes you right some details in this part the D600 won. But hey, to be honest, all the other points the D600 is far from the A99 imho, sorry. I guess everybody was saw that and you must buy new eyes ( ) The Nikon is worst about:

— details in lowlight;

— image was very soft;

— noise was not very well controlled;

— white areas was poorly reproduced;

— colours was dirty, and faded, what is really bad for a .jpeg engine (many places);

According to that, it seems to be the A99 have a better exploitation of the dynamic range trough is new algorithms or something...

The red channel is according to the compromise about uniWEB I guess (between tungsten and daylight) what is not the same for Sony and Nikon. And yes, Sony must fix that better in the generation next! But it's not significant to judge this camera as «mediocre» as you report: are you kidding?

So please, take a look again, to try to see what the others saw before you...!

Kind Regards,

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Kiril Karaatanasov
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Re: D600 has the lens too
In reply to Michel J, Oct 23, 2012

Michel J wrote:

Nope, maybe you miss something Kiril. You can have an intervalometer by two different ways:
— trough the remote control (home made or third party);
— trough the computer link (because the A99 can be computer controlled);

I know been there done that. I own few NEXs and A700 and I can manage with what I have.

No App support for my nex-7 after the FW update so will continue on the same path for a while. I doubt furthe rFW updates for NEX-7 will fix the ergonomics or bring any new stuff like app support.

So, no offense, but it seems that your message missing information more that this camera lacks features!

I really need a bsaic camera with nice settings like minolta 5d or better A700, full frame sensor and accurate AF. Not fast AF, just very accurate and consistent (I am unhappy with A700s lack of consistent performance). The other thing is I like the camera to be defect free and current full frame offerings seem to not be able to match these basic things quite well...

A99 is ok feature wise, I am just arguing that it is massively overpriced - there is not much substance above and beyond D600 yet almost 50% higher price tag.... Lens line up also seems to be dated now. 85/1.8 SSM, 70-200/4 SSM, 24-120/4 SSM 28-300/3.5-5.6 SSM - just don't exist in Alpha land. No lenses with weather sealing at all.....it is 2012 Sony guys; you had 6 years to make this work.

D600 is nice overall package for an enthusiast like myself. It seems to be just another Nikon blunder in terms of quality and reliability. The A700 is now turning 5 years old and everything just works - never had OVF issues, never had dust and oil all over my sensor, Af is same all across the frame left to right, rubber grip stays on and looks like new...

So may be I just hunker and wait for Full Frame NEX. NEX-7 at least works alright focus is spot on with 50/1.8 most of the time - miles ahead of SLT or DSLR technology.

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