My SLR Magic HyperPrime LM 50mm T0.95 Review!

Started Oct 12, 2012 | Discussions
SLR Magic
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Re: My SLR Magic HyperPrime LM 50mm T0.95 Review!
In reply to A Guy Platt, Oct 15, 2012

A Guy Platt wrote:

Well said.

I have several Leica lenses which are more than 20 years old. My oldest (a 50 Summilux) is from 1959. What's amazing to me is that I am not even surprised how well my old lenses work, I guess I just assumed they'd be fine.

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  Guy
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Guy,

Are you using your old lenses on the digital M or film M?

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macjonny1
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Re: My SLR Magic HyperPrime LM 50mm T0.95 Review!
In reply to SLR Magic, Oct 15, 2012

For sure a longevity test takes time.  I guess what I would be very very worried about though is the fact that people are getting these lenses and having an immediate worry that they would not stand the test of time.  I have not ever heard of this immediate feeling from a lens from Zeiss, Nokton, or Leica.

SLR Magic wrote:


To test if a lens function over time takes years. However, any lens need to be maintained for focus accuracy over time even if unused. The only test for build quality with immediate feedback is a drop test and our lens has been dropped by someone at the Steve Huff Los Angeles workshop from chest hight on concrete floor and still function properly. Maybe we someone can try a drop test with the other two 0.95 lenses to see how that would affect the lens. It is common for users to drop a lens or a bag on the table or floor. I say this because our lens has been dropped by users on the table at our shop and at Photokina by people trying the lens. It is a lot of psychological pressure when holding an expensive lens and when that happens lens gets dropped. For those who do not know the Noctilux and Canon f/0.95 lens are heavy lenses as well.

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facewashwas
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Re: My SLR Magic HyperPrime LM 50mm T0.95 Review!
In reply to Hacky3D, Oct 15, 2012

Hacky3D wrote:

Your photos did not contain EXIF data. Could you please mention on which camera they were taken?

The lens was used on my Leica M9 and an M8.

This is a warning to those who are getting off topic about my review. Your posts will be reported and deleted. Don't waste your efforts.

Stay on topic.

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macjonny1
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Re: My SLR Magic HyperPrime LM 50mm T0.95 Review!
In reply to SLR Magic, Oct 15, 2012

One more thing...the only true test for build quality with immediate feedback is to ask your customers if they feel the build quality is good.  No need to drop it...just ask if your customers have confidence in your product!  If the answer is a resounding yes then great!  If the answer is "no" a significant portion of time, then you've got a BIG problem.  What determines a "significant portion of time" is somewhat subjective, but I would say that for a lens that costs 4 to 5 thousand dollars a "significant portion of time" is a small number.

SLR Magic wrote:

 The only test for build quality with immediate feedback is a drop test
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SLR Magic
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Re: My SLR Magic HyperPrime LM 50mm T0.95 Review!
In reply to macjonny1, Oct 15, 2012

macjonny1 wrote:

For sure a longevity test takes time.  I guess what I would be very very worried about though is the fact that people are getting these lenses and having an immediate worry that they would not stand the test of time.  I have not ever heard of this immediate feeling from a lens from Zeiss, Nokton, or Leica.

I understand your concerns and this is why we are out here talking now to clear the false accusations and rumours. On dpreview forum the user "magneto shot" spread rumors she saw a photographers lens got loose first hand. In fact, I contact that photographer she made a reference to and he said his lens is fine. This is how rumors began.

To learn more about the story, take a look at Steve Huffs latest update as well as the comments from 60 and onwards.

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2012/02/04/the-slr-magic-hyperprime-50-lm-t0-95-leica-mount-lens-rolling-review/

At the end, a person noted there is some action taken over at getdpi forum with a link. I looked into the forum and found more false accusations and the matter is now rectified.

There is nothing we can do when people are worried our lens cannot stand the test of time. The same people have three years warranty with their SLR Magic HyperPrime LM 50mm T0.95 lens anyway. @facewashwas did not really post a neutral review. For example, it was not mentioned he wanted an early copy of the lens in Stealth Edition for review and at the time there was no packaging yet. Secondly, he said there is a problem with his filter and when we told him to ship it back to us for a replacement he was not willing to send it till he receives the replacement first. At the end he decided to keep his first filter. I am sure most companies would require the first product to be sent back first before a replacement is sent out. Thirdly, an assumption is made that the lens will not last in a years time. As said earlier we need to give it some time. I see on l-camera-forum people discuss equipment needing to be sent back for service and most are still under warranty and so it is the Brand that makes poeple feel the lens cannot stand the test of time.

I attached the tester packaging on the left and final packaging to the right. I do not think any early tester was not clearly informed they were receiving the lens in a neutral packaging. It was made clear it was NOT the final packaging.

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A Guy Platt
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Re: My SLR Magic HyperPrime LM 50mm T0.95 Review!
In reply to SLR Magic, Oct 15, 2012

SLR Magic wrote:

Guy,

Are you using your old lenses on the digital M or film M?

Digital mostly but I have also used them on film. Why?

For the record, I have nothing against someone coming into the market and making high end products. I have bought, and still own, lenses from Voigtländer and Zeiss for the Lecia M. However, I am unlikely to buy a lens without reading several reviews on it.

-- hide signature --

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  Guy
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SLR Magic
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Re: My SLR Magic HyperPrime LM 50mm T0.95 Review!
In reply to macjonny1, Oct 15, 2012

macjonny1 wrote:

One more thing...the only true test for build quality with immediate feedback is to ask your customers if they feel the build quality is good.  No need to drop it...just ask if your customers have confidence in your product!  If the answer is a resounding yes then great!

Here are what some of our customers have to say:

Comment from milesab

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/leica-m-x-r/41053-external-link-owner-review-slrmagic-50-0-95-posted-dpreview-leica-talk.html#6

Comment from 3D Hacky

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/50060283

Comment from Ashwin Rao

http://leicarumors.com/2012/10/08/slr-magic-hyperprime-50mm-f0-95-m-mount-lens-prototype-listed-on-ebay.aspx/

These are our real customers. In fact, we have many customers that put in a word with their true feedback but everyone assumed they are either fake people, are paid, or works at SLR Magic.

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SLR Magic
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Re: My SLR Magic HyperPrime LM 50mm T0.95 Review!
In reply to A Guy Platt, Oct 15, 2012

A Guy Platt wrote:

SLR Magic wrote:

Guy,

Are you using your old lenses on the digital M or film M?

Digital mostly but I have also used them on film. Why?

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  Guy
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And you never have issues with focus shift or flare from the lens coating that was not optimised for digital? If that is the case you are one lucky person. Not much to comment on that.

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macjonny1
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Re: My SLR Magic HyperPrime LM 50mm T0.95 Review!
In reply to SLR Magic, Oct 15, 2012

I truly hope you survive and make the best of this SLR Magic.  I wanted to get this lens and one time but became quite worried about the early negativity surrounding it.  I read forum reports from Stephen Patterson as well.  I'd just expect a nearly resounding positive review for a lens in this price range.  I'm all for competition.  I own Zeiss and old leica lenses, only one current modern Leica lens (21mm super elmar) and I'd be happy to trade it for a Zeiss plus cash as I got it in a trade.  I love third party and used lenses the value can't be beat.  There is no way I'd ever spend $10+k on a Leica Noctilux.  Best of luck and hope it works out for you in the end.

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SLR Magic
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Re: My SLR Magic HyperPrime LM 50mm T0.95 Review!
In reply to SLR Magic, Oct 15, 2012

I see a few "dislikes" with the drop test suggestion where the HyperPrime survived. This is a clear example where we get the "boos" when lenses of another brand may be to a disadvantage for another lens. We obviously do not have a lot of support from this forum thread. We had a lot of support on mirrorless forums. Same brand but probably different brand loyalty.

This was a topic opened on the micro four thirds thread on dpreview two years ago.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/36108742

We got the feedback from users at dpreview forum on what lens they want and we made the lens. It was the HyperPrime CINE 12mm T1.6 lens that was one of the lenses used on the new Panasonic GH3 launch film.

We also made a new option for a equivalent 50mm T0.95 for APS-C cameras by offering the 35mm T0.95 lens. Here are some reviews on the Fuji EX1 and the NEX-7.
Almost Perfection - 1st Test of a SLR Magic HyperPrime CINE 35mm T0.95 prototype
EXCLUSIVE: SLR Magic 35mm 0.95 lens – FIRST LOOK on XE1 & OMD
We do not have the heritage like other brands as that would take years but we have been very active in providing more lens options for a market that had so far been monopolistic for the past 100 years.

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SLR Magic
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Re: My SLR Magic HyperPrime LM 50mm T0.95 Review!
In reply to macjonny1, Oct 15, 2012

macjonny1 wrote:

I truly hope you survive and make the best of this SLR Magic.  I wanted to get this lens and one time but became quite worried about the early negativity surrounding it.  I read forum reports from Stephen Patterson as well.  I'd just expect a nearly resounding positive review for a lens in this price range.  I'm all for competition.  I own Zeiss and old leica lenses, only one current modern Leica lens (21mm super elmar) and I'd be happy to trade it for a Zeiss plus cash as I got it in a trade.  I love third party and used lenses the value can't be beat.  There is no way I'd ever spend $10+k on a Leica Noctilux.  Best of luck and hope it works out for you in the end.

Thanks for the support. After all that has happened it is not easy to clear the negativity surrounding our lens for Leica M mount. As some of our customers know PR and English is not what we are best at and a lot of negativity stirred up as we were preparing for our first ever exhibition at Photokina. I hope someone who had dropped by our booth and tried the lens can leave a few comments on the experience here.

Kind rgds.,

Andrew

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facewashwas
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Re: My SLR Magic HyperPrime LM 50mm T0.95 Review!
In reply to SLR Magic, Oct 15, 2012

SLR Magic wrote:

macjonny1 wrote:

For sure a longevity test takes time.  I guess what I would be very very worried about though is the fact that people are getting these lenses and having an immediate worry that they would not stand the test of time.  I have not ever heard of this immediate feeling from a lens from Zeiss, Nokton, or Leica.

@facewashwas did not really post a neutral review. For example, it was not mentioned he wanted an early copy of the lens in Stealth Edition for review and at the time there was no packaging yet.

I attached the tester packaging on the left and final packaging to the right. I do not think any early tester was not clearly informed they were receiving the lens in a neutral packaging. It was made clear it was NOT the final packaging.


Yes you did state the packaging will be "neutral," but nowhere was I told the lens be shipped in bubble wrap and packaging peanuts.

If Max received the lens (in April) in a Styrofoam cutout, why did I received a lens in bubble wrap and tape (in July) ? I assume that Styrofoam was less than adequate for shipping?

Btw, I haven't received the final packaging box for my lens... in case I wanted to sell. Cuz you know, boxes somehow increases the value of the lens...

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facewashwas
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Re: My SLR Magic HyperPrime LM 50mm T0.95 Review!
In reply to macjonny1, Oct 15, 2012

macjonny1 wrote:

One more thing...the only true test for build quality with immediate feedback is to ask your customers if they feel the build quality is good.  No need to drop it...just ask if your customers have confidence in your product!  If the answer is a resounding yes then great!  If the answer is "no" a significant portion of time, then you've got a BIG problem.  What determines a "significant portion of time" is somewhat subjective, but I would say that for a lens that costs 4 to 5 thousand dollars a "significant portion of time" is a small number.

SLR Magic wrote:


 The only test for build quality with immediate feedback is a drop test

If you ask me, I would say, the build quality is less than good for a lens this price regardless of its specialty. Definitely not recommended especially for the RF coupling.

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deep7
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Re: My SLR Magic HyperPrime LM 50mm T0.95 Review!
In reply to A Guy Platt, Oct 15, 2012

A Guy Platt wrote:

Thanks for taking the time to post your review here. It made for some interesting reading. From your description of the manufacturing standard I wonder what sort of life span these lenses will have.

I know that Steve Huff is displaying advertisements for the company on his site, and he has a very favorable report on the lens. I hope his reputation doesn't go down the drain if a high percentage of these lenses fail over the next few years.

Regards
  Guy
My Flickr photostream

I think Steve is likely being honest.  I was sent a Hyperprime 12/1.6 m4/3 lens for evaluation and the quality was first class.  Everything was very, well, German, if that makes sense?  Smooth, clean, precise, all as it should be.  An excellent lens optically too.  After a year, it is holding up perfectly.  I have nothing but praise for such a special piece of glass.  If Steve's lenses were like this, no wonder he is so positive.

The lens which is the subject of this thread is so different that it is hard to imagine it was made by the same people!  So sorry to hear about the problems.  I'd be gutted.

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Don.
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SLR Magic
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Re: My SLR Magic HyperPrime LM 50mm T0.95 Review!
In reply to A Guy Platt, Oct 15, 2012

A Guy Platt wrote:

I know that Steve Huff is displaying advertisements for the company on his site, and he has a very favorable report on the lens. I hope his reputation doesn't go down the drain if a high percentage of these lenses fail over the next few years.

Regards
  Guy
My Flickr photostream

Disclaimer:

Steve Huff is displaying an ad for us in support of what we do as a startup company for the past three years. He said that before on his blog before already. The ad that everyone refer to all the time is NOT a paid ad. Paid ad are under the site sponsor section on his blog. We are below that with NO site sponsor mention. So, it is NOT and advertisement. The only time we support was I personally bought a camera from the B&H links to a camera and lens on this website and that is how everyone else supports him. I am sure people using the links are kept confidential and he does not even know I bought a camera and lens through his links before. He does not know we bought from the links at all so I do not see how this affects anything at all. I hope no one accuses him to be paid to write a favorable review again. I am sure now everyone knows I bought from the link after this post but my point is there is no way it could have affected any of his reviews. Well, I think everyone gets the point now.

What the public has failed to mention is his negative feedback on the first prototype 50mm f/0.95 lens for M mount. He practically told us we have to come up with a new design. This is why we came up with the 50mm T0.95 lens.

Kind rgds.,

Andrew

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Hacky3D
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Re: My SLR Magic HyperPrime LM 50mm T0.95 Review!
In reply to facewashwas, Oct 15, 2012

facewashwas wrote:

Hacky3D wrote:

Your photos did not contain EXIF data. Could you please mention on which camera they were taken?

The lens was used on my Leica M9 and an M8.

This is a warning to those who are getting off topic about my review. Your posts will be reported and deleted. Don't waste your efforts.

Stay on topic.

You think it is off topic when I have a question regarding the pictures which are part of you review? I am used to reviews where the authors also stand behind ther image samples and post at least a part of it with EXIF data and in original resolution.

For me your review simply focuses far too much on build quality assumptions derived from an early prototype sample and the impact of packaging.

macjonny1 wrote:

Personally after these reports I would be very very worried about buying one of these.  A drop test would do nothing to reassure me about that. 

@MacJonny1: I do not recommend to draw a descision only based on two or three people and their subjective experience with particular samples of early prototypes as there is a risk to take too much human error into account. There are at least as many positive reports about the lens - optically as well as mechanically.

I saw also many reports about focusing issues from Noctilux users as well es reports about debris inside. This is not a general problem of the Noctilux or Leica. It is a mixture of general limitations of rangefinders and their calibration tolerances when used with high resolution digital sensors. Some people tend to believe, that only Leica is able to face these issues and build F0.95 M-lenses lasting a lifetime. SLR Magic has not that history but this is no reason to base a de-recommendation on assumptions and experience with some early prototypes.

I am sure, over the time, there will be more and more reports from users of production samples. My recommendation is to use F0.9x lenses on Leica M with EVF. If you think you can live without optical rangefinder you have the option to use the CINE version (which also moves the RF coupling arm on the camera so that for example the Leica M will switch to zoom mode when the focus ring is turned).

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facewashwas
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Re: My SLR Magic HyperPrime LM 50mm T0.95 Review!
In reply to Hacky3D, Oct 15, 2012
macjonny1 wrote:Personally after these reports I would be very very worried about buying one of these.  A drop test would do nothing to reassure me about that. 

@MacJonny1: I do not recommend to draw a descision only based on two or three people and their subjective experience with particular samples of early prototypes as there is a risk to take too much human error into account. There are at least as many positive reports about the lens - optically as well as mechanically.

There is not much to talk about when I say this lens definitely delivers in the optical department; it's amazing nonetheless as already said by stevehuff.

BUT aside from that, everything else is downhill.

Build quality just SUCKS (speaking specifically with my copy) and I just don't see how SLR Magic has tolerance for it. I feel like the negative aspects outweighs the positives which is why my review focuses so much on that initial impression.

Imagine getting a $4K lens and immediately upon inspection (before even mounting it at all) you were less than impressed or even "okay" with it.

Oozing Red glue, scratched aperture blades, stiff focusing ring, aperture, and slide out hood. Disfigured aperture, dinged paint, dirty mount, black dust particles inside lens, loud for a CINE lens, and it goes on. Though I am the first owner this lens was sold to, this lens is anything but a brand new lens in my book (by the looks and feel of it).

Just how could this quality pass SLR Magic's approval is my question. It's completely ridiculous! I have yet to received an answer from them aside from something along the lines of... well Leica(zeiss, et al) has that too, and here's pics to prove it. Deal with it.

Well, if a Leica lens owner experienced that much from a new single lens, wouldn't you think (Leica, et al) customers service would have done something to alleviate the situation and do something like replace the lens entirely or ask for it to be returned to fix that particular part (or many parts in my case) of the lens- rather than give out goodies to overcast the faults of the lens (thanks anyways if they weren't)?

In the end, this review is of the lens and there's no hiding faults when you have so many mechanically.

If anyone wants high-detailed images of the lens, let me know.

slrmagichyperprime@gmail.com

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facewashwas
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Re: My SLR Magic HyperPrime LM 50mm T0.95 Review!
In reply to deep7, Oct 15, 2012

deep7 wrote:

The lens which is the subject of this thread is so different that it is hard to imagine it was made by the same people!  So sorry to hear about the problems.  I'd be gutted.

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Don.
A Land Rover, a camera ... I'm happy!

Thanks! I feel the same way. I also feel like the lens SteveHuff received for his review was so precise to detail that it was necessary to impress him and the public that yes SLR Magic is capable of making such a lens. But when SLR Magic mass produced the lens on a scale of 10/month, it feels as though they couldn't provide that much level of detail and attention to each lens as they did to stevehuff and his meetup attenders. Thus this is where my RF lens copy landed- quite the completely opposite of stevehuff's world premiere copy.

After all, it's money that counts in the end. Oh, and guess what? Via Paypal, by the time the person get's their lens, they can't say no because a full refund is out of the question seeing that it takes 2-3 months for the lens to arrive. Buyer takes a huge hit via paypal.

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Hacky3D
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Re: My SLR Magic HyperPrime LM 50mm T0.95 Review!
In reply to facewashwas, Oct 15, 2012

@facewashwas:

As far as I understood your story, you insisted to get a stealth version and as far as I know, the stealth samples were pre production samples. So you base your accusations on a particular sample and extrapolate this to all other copies.

I saw an early prototype that also had a stiff aperture ring (as stiff as the aperture ring of the Noctilux of my friend...) and a more free moving focus ring. I also saw copies where both rings operated as smooth as expected. So there may be differences with early samples due to the hand production. But this does not mean that all copies of this lens made meanwhile and in the future have the same condition than yours.

The black dust that you saw on the mount propably was abrasion of the black coating of the metal lens cap.

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samhain
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Re: My SLR Magic HyperPrime LM 50mm T0.95 Review!
In reply to Hacky3D, Oct 16, 2012

Obvious build quality issues. I find it a little disheartening that SLRMagic has posted frequently in this thread, yet hasn't addressed the numerous build quality issues. issues that if any of us had on a $4k lens right out of the box we'd be furious over.

If it was my lens, I would expect nothing less than "please send us the lens so we can see the problems first hand And if need be address our manufacturer. The lens will be fixed or replaced immediately".

is that a asking to much? I had a company tell me those exact words- and it was for a $19 fishing lure. Needless to say I'm now a huge fan and advocate for said company.

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