How little camera sensors have changed in 5 years

Started Sep 28, 2012 | Discussions
Tommot1965
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How little camera sensors have changed in 5 years
Sep 28, 2012

ok..after I saw on the main page that the D600 had new studio test done..I thought Id see how the D700 stacks up against the new kids on the block in regards to High ISO

so I downloaded the D600, D800 and D700 files at ISO 6400..then I down sampled the higher res files to match the D700 file..then saved the new files at the same Jpeg quality.

after all this I did a blind test to determine the one I liked best...Ill let you lot have a look...needless to say a 5 year old FX sensor still rocks at high ISO and we are all being brainwashed into needing high MP cameras and so called better ISO ..LMAO

take a look and see what you reckon and to me the D700 files look great

Nikon D600 Nikon D700 Nikon D800
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Oly Canikon
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Re: How little camera sensors have changed in 5 years
In reply to Tommot1965, Sep 28, 2012

I down sampled the higher res files to match the D700 file..
Any chance that affected your result

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showmetheprime
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Re: Not sure how you can say that?
In reply to Tommot1965, Sep 28, 2012

Five years ago users of Nikon were pretty much limited to 12MP. Now we have improved quality at 24MP and 36MP that only months ago was limited to a £5k D3X. I'd say there have been massive improvements to provide resolution and quality for the price...

Tommot1965 wrote:

ok..after I saw on the main page that the D600 had new studio test done..I thought Id see how the D700 stacks up against the new kids on the block in regards to High ISO

so I downloaded the D600, D800 and D700 files at ISO 6400..then I down sampled the higher res files to match the D700 file..then saved the new files at the same Jpeg quality.

after all this I did a blind test to determine the one I liked best...Ill let you lot have a look...needless to say a 5 year old FX sensor still rocks at high ISO and we are all being brainwashed into needing high MP cameras and so called better ISO ..LMAO

take a look and see what you reckon and to me the D700 files look great

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Robin Casady
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Re: How little camera sensors have changed in 5 years
In reply to Tommot1965, Sep 28, 2012

Tommot1965 wrote:

ok..after I saw on the main page that the D600 had new studio test done..I thought Id see how the D700 stacks up against the new kids on the block in regards to High ISO

Is high ISO all you care about? How did you get brainwashed into thinking that high ISO was the most important factor in photography?

so I downloaded the D600, D800 and D700 files at ISO 6400..then I down sampled the higher res files to match the D700 file..then saved the new files at the same Jpeg quality.

LMAO. You think a 900 x 600 JPEG is a good way to compare sensors?

after all this I did a blind test to determine the one I liked best...Ill let you lot have a look...needless to say a 5 year old FX sensor still rocks at high ISO and we are all being brainwashed into needing high MP cameras and so called better ISO ..LMAO

Brainwashed? LMAO. Being able to produce a 20x30" print with the detail of a D700's 12x17" print is an excellent improvement in my book.

take a look and see what you reckon and to me the D700 files look great

The D700 produces excellent images, but that doesn't mean there haven't been significant improvements in sensors.

Here is one significant way the D800E sensor has improved over the D700:

http://home.comcast.net/~NikonD70/Charts/PDR.htm#D800E
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Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html

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gl2k
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Re: How little camera sensors have changed in 5 years
In reply to Tommot1965, Sep 28, 2012

Totally agree.

The biggest jump in IQ is from an old DX (eg D300) to a new FX system at high ISO and DR.

An often underestimated role plays the RAW development SW. New versions of ACR and NX2 do a lot better job than their old versions.

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gl2k
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Re: How little camera sensors have changed in 5 years
In reply to Robin Casady, Sep 28, 2012

Robin Casady wrote:

The D700 produces excellent images, but that doesn't mean there haven't been significant improvements in sensors.

Here is one significant way the D800E sensor has improved over the D700:

And how many photogs do really take advantage of this improvement ? The visual improvements are quite subtle and most hobby photogs wouldn't recognize them.

Not to mention that hardly anyone really makes use of 36 mp.

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DRode
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Re: How little camera sensors have changed in 5 years
In reply to Tommot1965, Sep 28, 2012

I've seen many, many shots comparing the D600 to the D700, D800 and D3s. I've seen up sampled and down sampled comparisons and I cannot find a single instance where I thought the D700 noise handling was better than the D600. The D800 as as good or better than the D600 in every instance.

My intention was to buy a D700 this winter because it's such a good body especially for low-light work. For a little more than the cost of a used D700, I can have a new D600 with better noise handling, much higher dynamic range and better edge acuity.

The D700 is a really good body but the D600, based on the samples I've seen, is capable of greater IQ despite the cheaper build.

It's a tough call for me. A better overall body versus better IQ.

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Art is not real. Art is an artifice, an invention, the product of the imagination and the creativity of the artist. In short, expecting art to faithfully duplicate reality is a misconception, a misunderstanding of the very purpose of art. - Alain Briot

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ZAnton
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If you shoot under perfect lighting - then no
In reply to Tommot1965, Sep 28, 2012

but if you need a DR, or you have to pull shadows on an image ISO3200, then differences come out.

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Tommot1965
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Re: How little camera sensors have changed in 5 years
In reply to Oly Canikon, Sep 28, 2012

Oly Canikon wrote:

I down sampled the higher res files to match the D700 file..
Any chance that affected your result

I dont think so..as everywhere on this forum people with a D800 make a point of saying that once downsampled a D800 has obvious improvements in High ISo limits compared to a D700 ..so thats what I did to the high MP images...but even when you view the images untouched side but side I cant tell any difference to my eyes..until you hit the Zoom button then more MP shine through.

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RP McMurphy
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Re: How little camera sensors have changed in 5 years
In reply to Tommot1965, Sep 28, 2012

Tommot1965 wrote:

Oly Canikon wrote:

I down sampled the higher res files to match the D700 file..
Any chance that affected your result

I dont think so..as everywhere on this forum people with a D800 make a point of saying that once downsampled a D800 has obvious improvements in High ISo limits compared to a D700 ..so thats what I did to the high MP images...but even when you view the images untouched side but side I cant tell any difference to my eyes..until you hit the Zoom button then more MP shine through.

You have seen at 12mp that the d800 or d600 is as good as the d700 which is what many are saying was not the case so, 1st point, you prove that a 36mp sensor can achieve the same noise handling as a 12mp file

2nd point, you say when conditions are right the D800 can resolve incredible detail, that couldn't happen 5 years ago so things have moved on

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RP McMurphy
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Re: How little camera sensors have changed in 5 years
In reply to DRode, Sep 28, 2012

Better IQ

The quality of the body does not show up in photographs

DRode wrote:

I've seen many, many shots comparing the D600 to the D700, D800 and D3s. I've seen up sampled and down sampled comparisons and I cannot find a single instance where I thought the D700 noise handling was better than the D600. The D800 as as good or better than the D600 in every instance.

My intention was to buy a D700 this winter because it's such a good body especially for low-light work. For a little more than the cost of a used D700, I can have a new D600 with better noise handling, much higher dynamic range and better edge acuity.

The D700 is a really good body but the D600, based on the samples I've seen, is capable of greater IQ despite the cheaper build.

It's a tough call for me. A better overall body versus better IQ.

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http://rodephoto.com

Art is not real. Art is an artifice, an invention, the product of the imagination and the creativity of the artist. In short, expecting art to faithfully duplicate reality is a misconception, a misunderstanding of the very purpose of art. - Alain Briot

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Tommot1965
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Re: How little camera sensors have changed in 5 years
In reply to Robin Casady, Sep 28, 2012

Robin Casady wrote:

Tommot1965 wrote:

ok..after I saw on the main page that the D600 had new studio test done..I thought Id see how the D700 stacks up against the new kids on the block in regards to High ISO

Is high ISO all you care about? How did you get brainwashed into thinking that high ISO was the most important factor in photography?..

so I downloaded the D600, D800 and D700 files at ISO 6400..then I down sampled the higher res files to match the D700 file..then saved the new files at the same Jpeg quality.

LMAO. You think a 900 x 600 JPEG is a good way to compare sensors?...

after all this I did a blind test to determine the one I liked best...Ill let you lot have a look...needless to say a 5 year old FX sensor still rocks at high ISO and we are all being brainwashed into needing high MP cameras and so called better ISO ..LMAO

Brainwashed? LMAO. Being able to produce a 20x30" print with the detail of a D700's 12x17" print is an excellent improvement in my book.

take a look and see what you reckon and to me the D700 files look great

The D700 produces excellent images, but that doesn't mean there haven't been significant improvements in sensors.

Here is one significant way the D800E sensor has improved over the D700:

http://home.comcast.net/~NikonD70/Charts/PDR.htm#D800E
--
Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html

no but in this disscusion it about high ISO handling

.No I dont think they are 900x600 Jpegs 1600x1068 but even before the Jpg save in PS there was no differance before you hit the zoom button

and true more MP will give larger print sizes

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Tommot1965
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Re: How little camera sensors have changed in 5 years
In reply to RP McMurphy, Sep 28, 2012

RP McMurphy wrote:

Tommot1965 wrote:

Oly Canikon wrote:

I down sampled the higher res files to match the D700 file..
Any chance that affected your result

I dont think so..as everywhere on this forum people with a D800 make a point of saying that once downsampled a D800 has obvious improvements in High ISo limits compared to a D700 ..so thats what I did to the high MP images...but even when you view the images untouched side but side I cant tell any difference to my eyes..until you hit the Zoom button then more MP shine through.

You have seen at 12mp that the d800 or d600 is as good as the d700 which is what many are saying was not the case so, 1st point, you prove that a 36mp sensor can achieve the same noise handling as a 12mp file

2nd point, you say when conditions are right the D800 can resolve incredible detail, that couldn't happen 5 years ago so things have moved on

Im sorry but thats not the point people were making when all the talk of downsampling was being banded about and still isnt ..it because when the D800 appeared and people were viewing the files at 100% at 36mp..the conclusion was the nosie looked worse..and of course it did when viewing at 100%....because of the added resolution..but once viewd at the same res the D800 looked better than the D700...something Im not really seeing in the above images

yes I agree with your second point...

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showmetheprime
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Re: How little camera sensors have changed in 5 years
In reply to RP McMurphy, Sep 28, 2012

+100 unless you want it for a war zone

RP McMurphy wrote:
Better IQ

The quality of the body does not show up in photographs

DRode wrote:

I've seen many, many shots comparing the D600 to the D700, D800 and D3s. I've seen up sampled and down sampled comparisons and I cannot find a single instance where I thought the D700 noise handling was better than the D600. The D800 as as good or better than the D600 in every instance.

My intention was to buy a D700 this winter because it's such a good body especially for low-light work. For a little more than the cost of a used D700, I can have a new D600 with better noise handling, much higher dynamic range and better edge acuity.

The D700 is a really good body but the D600, based on the samples I've seen, is capable of greater IQ despite the cheaper build.

It's a tough call for me. A better overall body versus better IQ.

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-Dan Rode
http://rodephoto.com

Art is not real. Art is an artifice, an invention, the product of the imagination and the creativity of the artist. In short, expecting art to faithfully duplicate reality is a misconception, a misunderstanding of the very purpose of art. - Alain Briot

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DRode
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Re: How little camera sensors have changed in 5 years
In reply to RP McMurphy, Sep 28, 2012

That's the way I'm leaning. As much as I would prefer the D700 handling -- it's nearly a twin to my D300s -- I can live without it. I can even live with the small cluster of AF points. The 1/200 flash sync speed is to only real issue that will have an affect on images (rather than convenience).

I do earn money from photography but I don't do it full-time or earn my living from it. I can afford to be inconvenienced.

RP McMurphy wrote:
Better IQ
The quality of the body does not show up in photographs

DRode wrote:

It's a tough call for me. A better overall body versus better IQ.

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Mako2011
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photography freeway
In reply to Tommot1965, Sep 28, 2012

Tommot1965 wrote:

Robin Casady wrote:

Tommot1965 wrote:

ok..after I saw on the main page that the D600 had new studio test done..I thought Id see how the D700 stacks up against the new kids on the block in regards to High ISO

Is high ISO all you care about? How did you get brainwashed into thinking that high ISO was the most important factor in photography?..

so I downloaded the D600, D800 and D700 files at ISO 6400..then I down sampled the higher res files to match the D700 file..then saved the new files at the same Jpeg quality.

LMAO. You think a 900 x 600 JPEG is a good way to compare sensors?...

after all this I did a blind test to determine the one I liked best...Ill let you lot have a look...needless to say a 5 year old FX sensor still rocks at high ISO and we are all being brainwashed into needing high MP cameras and so called better ISO ..LMAO

Brainwashed? LMAO. Being able to produce a 20x30" print with the detail of a D700's 12x17" print is an excellent improvement in my book.

take a look and see what you reckon and to me the D700 files look great

The D700 produces excellent images, but that doesn't mean there haven't been significant improvements in sensors.

Here is one significant way the D800E sensor has improved over the D700:

http://home.comcast.net/~NikonD70/Charts/PDR.htm#D800E
--
Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html

no but in this disscusion it about high ISO handling

Then you should go back and print the files at 20x30 and see if things changed.

.No I dont think they are 900x600 Jpegs 1600x1068 but even before the Jpg save in PS there was no differance before you hit the zoom button

If you compare in that way...then even a smart phone is close enough.

and true more MP will give larger print sizes

And that is where you see the real jump. If you never print or crop big then yes...you can get buy easily with older tech and a good NR program.

If you really don't take advantage of the improvement then it really isn't needed in your case.

My new Acura is phenomenally better tech wise than my 10 year old one. If I never get off the free way at 65MPH....i would never know. Get off the photography freeway and run the curvy back roads with a little speed and a sideways slide or two.

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Mako2011
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And
In reply to Mako2011, Sep 28, 2012

Mako2011 wrote:

Tommot1965 wrote:

no but in this disscusion it about high ISO handling

Then you should go back and print the files at 20x30 and see if things changed.

.No I dont think they are 900x600 Jpegs 1600x1068 but even before the Jpg save in PS there was no differance before you hit the zoom button

If you compare in that way...then even a smart phone is close enough.

and true more MP will give larger print sizes

And that is where you see the real jump. If you never print or crop big then yes...you can get buy easily with older tech and a good NR program.

If you really don't take advantage of the improvement then it really isn't needed in your case.

My new Acura is phenomenally better tech wise than my 10 year old one. If I never get off the free way at 65MPH....i would never know. Get off the photography freeway and run the curvy back roads with a little speed and a sideways slide or two.

Oops, I forgot where the biggest dif shows up.....drive in the dim light of sunset or sunrise. Hang out in zone 3 and 7 for a bit

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Tommot1965
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Re: photography freeway
In reply to Mako2011, Sep 28, 2012

Mako2011 wrote:

Tommot1965 wrote:

Robin Casady wrote:

Tommot1965 wrote:

ok..after I saw on the main page that the D600 had new studio test done..I thought Id see how the D700 stacks up against the new kids on the block in regards to High ISO

Is high ISO all you care about? How did you get brainwashed into thinking that high ISO was the most important factor in photography?..

so I downloaded the D600, D800 and D700 files at ISO 6400..then I down sampled the higher res files to match the D700 file..then saved the new files at the same Jpeg quality.

LMAO. You think a 900 x 600 JPEG is a good way to compare sensors?...

after all this I did a blind test to determine the one I liked best...Ill let you lot have a look...needless to say a 5 year old FX sensor still rocks at high ISO and we are all being brainwashed into needing high MP cameras and so called better ISO ..LMAO

Brainwashed? LMAO. Being able to produce a 20x30" print with the detail of a D700's 12x17" print is an excellent improvement in my book.

take a look and see what you reckon and to me the D700 files look great

The D700 produces excellent images, but that doesn't mean there haven't been significant improvements in sensors.

Here is one significant way the D800E sensor has improved over the D700:

http://home.comcast.net/~NikonD70/Charts/PDR.htm#D800E
--
Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html

no but in this disscusion it about high ISO handling

Then you should go back and print the files at 20x30 and see if things changed.

.No I dont think they are 900x600 Jpegs 1600x1068 but even before the Jpg save in PS there was no differance before you hit the zoom button

If you compare in that way...then even a smart phone is close enough.

and true more MP will give larger print sizes

And that is where you see the real jump. If you never print or crop big then yes...you can get buy easily with older tech and a good NR program.

If you really don't take advantage of the improvement then it really isn't needed in your case.

My new Acura is phenomenally better tech wise than my 10 year old one. If I never get off the free way at 65MPH....i would never know. Get off the photography freeway and run the curvy back roads with a little speed and a sideways slide or two.

no I dont belive a smartphone image would be close..compare a D300s at 6400ISO...and thats not even close...in fact its pretty bad..the D700 on the other hand is pretty good

yes I agree if your cropping a huge amount or printing massive the more MP will be a advantage....I do crop...but only print to A3+ size as thats all my printer can handle

but I digress...my point was at ISO 6400..theres not much in it between todays bodies and a body that was released 5 years ago

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Tommot1965
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Re: How little camera sensors have changed in 5 years
In reply to Robin Casady, Sep 28, 2012

Robin Casady wrote:

Tommot1965 wrote:

ok..after I saw on the main page that the D600 had new studio test done..I thought Id see how the D700 stacks up against the new kids on the block in regards to High ISO

Is high ISO all you care about? How did you get brainwashed into thinking that high ISO was the most important factor in photography?

so I downloaded the D600, D800 and D700 files at ISO 6400..then I down sampled the higher res files to match the D700 file..then saved the new files at the same Jpeg quality.

LMAO. You think a 900 x 600 JPEG is a good way to compare sensors?

after all this I did a blind test to determine the one I liked best...Ill let you lot have a look...needless to say a 5 year old FX sensor still rocks at high ISO and we are all being brainwashed into needing high MP cameras and so called better ISO ..LMAO

Brainwashed? LMAO. Being able to produce a 20x30" print with the detail of a D700's 12x17" print is an excellent improvement in my book.

take a look and see what you reckon and to me the D700 files look great

The D700 produces excellent images, but that doesn't mean there haven't been significant improvements in sensors.

Here is one significant way the D800E sensor has improved over the D700:

http://home.comcast.net/~NikonD70/Charts/PDR.htm#D800E
--
Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html

oh thats a shame..I just hit the link provided hoping to see a great photo backing your point...but instead it was a chart ..bummer

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Mako2011
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Re: photography freeway
In reply to Tommot1965, Sep 28, 2012

Tommot1965 wrote:

Mako2011 wrote:

Tommot1965 wrote:

Robin Casady wrote:

Tommot1965 wrote:

ok..after I saw on the main page that the D600 had new studio test done..I thought Id see how the D700 stacks up against the new kids on the block in regards to High ISO

Is high ISO all you care about? How did you get brainwashed into thinking that high ISO was the most important factor in photography?..

so I downloaded the D600, D800 and D700 files at ISO 6400..then I down sampled the higher res files to match the D700 file..then saved the new files at the same Jpeg quality.

LMAO. You think a 900 x 600 JPEG is a good way to compare sensors?...

after all this I did a blind test to determine the one I liked best...Ill let you lot have a look...needless to say a 5 year old FX sensor still rocks at high ISO and we are all being brainwashed into needing high MP cameras and so called better ISO ..LMAO

Brainwashed? LMAO. Being able to produce a 20x30" print with the detail of a D700's 12x17" print is an excellent improvement in my book.

take a look and see what you reckon and to me the D700 files look great

The D700 produces excellent images, but that doesn't mean there haven't been significant improvements in sensors.

Here is one significant way the D800E sensor has improved over the D700:

http://home.comcast.net/~NikonD70/Charts/PDR.htm#D800E
--
Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html

no but in this disscusion it about high ISO handling

Then you should go back and print the files at 20x30 and see if things changed.

.No I dont think they are 900x600 Jpegs 1600x1068 but even before the Jpg save in PS there was no differance before you hit the zoom button

If you compare in that way...then even a smart phone is close enough.

and true more MP will give larger print sizes

And that is where you see the real jump. If you never print or crop big then yes...you can get buy easily with older tech and a good NR program.

If you really don't take advantage of the improvement then it really isn't needed in your case.

My new Acura is phenomenally better tech wise than my 10 year old one. If I never get off the free way at 65MPH....i would never know. Get off the photography freeway and run the curvy back roads with a little speed and a sideways slide or two.

no I dont belive a smartphone image would be close..compare a D300s at 6400ISO...and thats not even close...in fact its pretty bad..the D700 on the other hand is pretty good

At the display size you are using here (in my browser window) to compare...in good light with a little PP...nope a smart phone actully will keep up

yes I agree if your cropping a huge amount or printing massive the more MP will be a advantage....I do crop...but only print to A3+ size as thats all my printer can handle

Then you really are not doing anything that pushes the limit at all. Shoot in Dim light at Iso 6400 or high crop 50% and print at A3+. Push the shadows for more. The dif really starts to become obvious.

but I digress...my point was at ISO 6400..theres not much in it between todays bodies and a body that was released 5 years ago

In the way you compare...no not a lot. Many folks don't really push the limits of the technology. Those that do produce some stunning results that can't be obtained with last gen tech. But, i agree, not many really go there.

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