DAM software replacement for IDImager

Started Sep 25, 2012 | Discussions
thelordsmurf
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DAM software replacement for IDImager
Sep 25, 2012

Hi folks,

So I went to start working on photos today and long story short found out that IDImager is dead. Reading on the forums there it seems that people are none too pleased with Photo Supreme as a true DAM tool.

So, I wanted some insights from people. I'm willing to pay money for a tool that is useful, but I imagine it would need to have:

1. Hierarchical keywords

2. Automatic compatibility with XML (and IPTC I guess; which of those do Facebook and Flickr use?) for the keywords and such (and to treat the City, State, Country, Location fields as keywords too)
3. Ability to export to Facebook and Flickr
4. Ability to run searches (5 star pictures of me without person X, etc.)

I had recently been using Picasa for face recognition and then importing that data into IDI; if there is some way to do that it would be great.

Also since my current DAM is IDI, if the new DAM software can import my images and recreate a hierarchical keyword structure that would be nice but I am willing to spend the time to recreate it if it will at least import all the keywords.

I saw some hints that Media Pro 1 fails, that Lightroom 4 fails, that digiKam fails in Windows... I don't even know if ACDSee still exists, etc.

I'd really appreciate some advice on the topic. I looked around but the last few sets of comments on this topic were a few months old, before IDI ended.

Thanks!

Heinrich Schulz
Regular MemberPosts: 135
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Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager
In reply to thelordsmurf, Sep 26, 2012

I'm in exactly the same boat - using IDImager and now it's gone...

Other options might be Corel Aftershot Pro (ASP) or Daminion - I've seen them mentioned as possible DAM replacements, but haven't looked into how well they match your requirements...

Be aware that ASP might also be on it's last legs - Corel recently separated all the original Bibble developers and it seems from Corel forum posts that ASP (basically the new version of Bibble - that was aquired by Corel a year ago) might be dead as well - but Corel reported that they're working on a new version (who exactly is doing this is unknown, since the whole ASP team left).

Lots of internal politics and exitement in the DAM software industry it seems...

Regards
Heinrich

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ekutter
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Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager
In reply to thelordsmurf, Sep 26, 2012

Same boat here. For me, the #1 criteria is storing changes in the image file rather than just a database. Turns out this was pretty important with IDI since it is now gone. Most of the DAM programs don't play nice with others which makes them non-starters.

I mainly have used Windows Live Photo Gallery as my day-to-day viewer because it has hierarchical keywords, it saves data in the file, and it is plain fast. I then used IDI for more advanced features. Until a few months ago, WLPG played really nice with IDI. Then IDI introduced a bug that removes any people tags I have set with WLPG when images sync, thus making IDI unusable for me. Can't have one program trashing info from another. I have been patiently awaiting a fix, which now will never come.

I played with Photo Supreme (official IDI replacement) quite a bit to see if it does what I need. First, it still has the WLPG people tag bug. 2nd, it is missing a lot of the XMP filtering, such as camera model. It doesn't have basic features like the great batch-rename of IDI. Basically, it doesn't really add much, if anything, to WLPG. And still has the bugs.

If you haven't tried WLPG, you should for basic DAM features. Unfortunately there were a number of more advanced features in IDI that I haven't been able to find else where.

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malch
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Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager
In reply to thelordsmurf, Sep 26, 2012

It's not such a difficult problem but it's a very tough market. Most of the better solutions are targeted at corporate users and priced accordingly (in the thousands).

I solved the problem by writing my own. Even looked at marketing the thing but I couldn't see any way to make money even after discounting all of the development time/cost.

There is one open source package I know of:

http://vvvp.sourceforge.net/

It's a good effort but the project hasn't found sufficient resources to build what I would consider a substantially complete product.

Ironically, if you extract all of the EXIF and IPTC info from a sizable image collection (e.g. 100,000 images) the volume of data to be handled is incredibly modest. In fact, can you can stuff all of it in RAM for blindingly fast searching.

Nevertheless, I fear it's unlikely you'll find much out there at a reasonable price. I'm not a big fan of the Daminion approach but it's worth a look. Maybe it will work for you.

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thelordsmurf
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Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager
In reply to malch, Sep 26, 2012

How about the new ACDsee Pro 6 or 15? Anyone know much about this? http://www.acdsee.com/en/products

I actually didn't end up using IDI for much photo editing to be honest, but I guess if I'm going to get better at this I might as well try to use the same tool for both things. I have an old version of Photoshop that I had been using for photo edits.

I agree, having the changes stored in the file (or at least the option to "apply" the changes to the files) is important.

So, anyone out there with opinions on:
ACDSee Pro 6/15

Lightroom 4 as a DAM software (concerned about the proprietary hierarchy tables http://gcoupe.wordpress.com/2012/03/21/lightroom-4-a-mixed-blessing/ )
MediaPro 1

Thanks!
Aashoo

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malch
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Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager
In reply to thelordsmurf, Sep 26, 2012

thelordsmurf wrote:

So, anyone out there with opinions on:
ACDSee Pro 6/15

I'm not a big fan of the one package does it all approach. But if you like that kind of thing take a look at ACD, Lightroom, and Zoner Photo Studio. Of the three, I prefer Zoner.

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NC_Glider
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Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager
In reply to thelordsmurf, Sep 27, 2012

I use Canto Cumulus Single user, and find it's the only DAM that meet my needs. They have a trial version. If interested be sure to try the single user. Google it. It's pricey, and I have been using it since the beginning of digital. By the way, I'm a pro.

Richard

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ggeinec
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Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager
In reply to NC_Glider, Sep 27, 2012

CameraBits (makers of Photo Mechanic) is working on a DAM called Catalog that they say they will release sometime in 2012. You might want to keep an eye on that.

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K-Murat
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Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager
In reply to thelordsmurf, Sep 27, 2012

Hi there,

Check out Daaminion (the standalone version is free).

It supports XMP, IPTC including hierarchical tags in a range of media formats including camera RAW formats. Just import a few sample folders from your existing image collection to check that all your annotations will be correctly imported into the new program.

One of the Daminion benefits - it's ability to automatically sync all tags with file metadata, without user action (can be switched off). Another benefit is a true multi-user access. The next one is it's focus in image cataloging and clean UI.

Ps, I work on Daminion Software and can answer to any questions related to Daminion.

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fuego6
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Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager
In reply to ggeinec, Oct 2, 2012

We've been waiting for their DAM for over 3 years now... forthcoming? perhaps... but I woudn't count on it.

Options I would consider:
Daminion - free with an active developer and community
iMatch - new version is imminent (currently in closed beta)
ACDSee Pro 6 - lots of bells and whistles.. but has the goods
Zoner Photo Studio - great software - doesn't get the respect it deserves

Lightroom - its growing on me... keywording is still a bit of a clunk and you need a powerful system to run.. but one stop shopping that the pros use? Its the one for me right now.

Good luck!

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fuego6
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Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager
In reply to K-Murat, Oct 2, 2012

I really like Daminion ... just wish it has a built in GPS option with reverse geocoding (location data written to XMP). Also, how does daminion handle hierarchical keywording?

Thx!

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Geoff Coupe
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Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager
In reply to ekutter, Oct 2, 2012

I'm looking at Photo Supreme, and so far, for my usage patterns, it is a perfectly acceptable replacement for IDI, for me.

I never really exploited the power of IDI - rather like Microsoft Word, I only ever use a fraction of its power.

I'm surprised though, by ekutter's comments stating that Photo Supreme "is missing a lot of the XMP filtering, such as camera model. It doesn't have basic features like the great batch-rename of IDI".

Actually, all the XMP technical details that IDI exposed are there in Photo Supreme as well, as far as I can see. I can filter by camera make and model, by F-number, focal length, exposure, ISO speed, and other properties. And the Batch rename capabilities are also the same as in IDI - you just have to define them. That can be as simple as cutting and pasting the rules from IDI across to Photo Supreme.

As for the WLPG People tag bug - I must admit I haven't noticed it. I have a few photos tagged by WLPG, and they seem unaffected by using them in IDI or Photo Supreme. I'll have to go and take a closer look.

It's perfectly true that Photo Supreme is a simplified version of IDI, and may well be simplified too far for some people. You can't define custom XMP yourself in it, for example. But I suspect that for many people, Photo Supreme strikes a nice balance between ease-of-use and power.

It works for me.
--
Geoff Coupe

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Geoff Coupe
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Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager
In reply to thelordsmurf, Oct 2, 2012

thelordsmurf wrote:

1. Hierarchical keywords

2. Automatic compatibility with XML (and IPTC I guess; which of those do Facebook and Flickr use?) for the keywords and such (and to treat the City, State, Country, Location fields as keywords too)
3. Ability to export to Facebook and Flickr
4. Ability to run searches (5 star pictures of me without person X, etc.)

I had recently been using Picasa for face recognition and then importing that data into IDI; if there is some way to do that it would be great.

Also since my current DAM is IDI, if the new DAM software can import my images and recreate a hierarchical keyword structure that would be nice but I am willing to spend the time to recreate it if it will at least import all the keywords.

To answer your questions...

Photo Supreme has:

1. Hierarchical keywords - Yes, and you can choose your delimiter character ( / \ . | )for both reading and writing metadata.

2. Automatic compatibility with XML and IPTC - Yes. Built-in support for IPTC Core, Additional, Extension, Plus and also support for technical (exif) info in XMP.

3. Ability to export to Facebook and Flickr - Yes, plus Picasaweb, Smugmug, Zenfolio, FTP and email

4. Ability to run searches - Yes. Built-in searches on the Catalog properties and state, plus ability to build dynamic searches on Catalog properties.

It's possible to move your present IDI database across into Photo Supreme, to be up and running very quickly. However, I decided to recreate a new database Catalog from scratch by importing my images (and their metadata) into Photo Supreme, and recreated the Catalog hierarchy from that.

-- hide signature --

Geoff Coupe

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MisterBG
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Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager
In reply to Geoff Coupe, Oct 7, 2012

It puzzles me as to why people think it essential they  replace their software immediately it loses manufacturer support.

My copy of IDImager has not self destructed or ceased to work. It's still doing the excellent job that it always has and I see no reason to consider any alternative.

I've looked at 'Photo Supreme' as an alternative, but my initial impression is I do not like the UI, although further investigation may modify my opinion. I think the "discount" upgrade price is a cynical way of extracting more hard-earned cash from IDImager supporters. As far as I'm concerned there's no reason to stop using IDImager for the foreseeable future, since it's the best tool for  labelling, organising and cataloging my images. I've taken a quick look at some of the alternative DAM programs suggested here (mostly the free ones), but my impression is that they appear to vary between cumbersome and unworkable in their application.

-- hide signature --

>To err is Human. To really foul things up you need a computer.

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fuego6
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Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager
In reply to MisterBG, Oct 7, 2012

MisterBG wrote:

It puzzles me as to why people think it essential they  replace their software immediately it loses manufacturer support.

My copy of IDImager has not self destructed or ceased to work. It's still doing the excellent job that it always has and I see no reason to consider any alternative.

I've looked at 'Photo Supreme' as an alternative, but my initial impression is I do not like the UI, although further investigation may modify my opinion. I think the "discount" upgrade price is a cynical way of extracting more hard-earned cash from IDImager supporters. As far as I'm concerned there's no reason to stop using IDImager for the foreseeable future, since it's the best tool for  labelling, organising and cataloging my images. I've taken a quick look at some of the alternative DAM programs suggested here (mostly the free ones), but my impression is that they appear to vary between cumbersome and unworkable in their application.

-- hide signature --

>To err is Human. To really foul things up you need a computer.

While I agree with your reasoning... there are a number of reasons to start looking for new software:

  1. new cameras will not be supported (ie: RAW formats, metadata)
  2. bugs will not be corrected (and there are still many out there)
  3. no enhancements of course... (I was hoping for a long list of them!)
  4. behind the curve? - I like to stay current with the software I use... as other move on, the user to user support will diminish as well.

Sure - the software will not decay on your machine... but... will you say the same in a year?  I've been using LR more and more and while it isn't ideal for keywording... it is amazingly fast to find image, filter them, create smart galleries and of course, professionally edit, print and create galleries all in a package that has tons of user support.  The icing on the cake is the new GPS module.. while again, not ideal, is way ahead of Idimager's user provided script.

Just my 2 cents...

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malch
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Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager
In reply to fuego6, Oct 7, 2012

fuego6 wrote:

Sure - the software will not decay on your machine...

Software tends not to decay. However, databases are a different matter and the risk of decay is significantly greater.

I would be quite uncomfortable relying upon a DAM system (or any other database centric application) for which support has been withdrawn.

It's true that the OP doesn't have to replace idImager tomorrow morning (but I suspect he already knows that). However, it's very prudent to start thinking about migration plans and it's certainly a an appropriate time to be asking questions in a forum such as this.

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fuego6
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Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager
In reply to malch, Oct 7, 2012

malch wrote:

fuego6 wrote:

Sure - the software will not decay on your machine...

Software tends not to decay. However, databases are a different matter and the risk of decay is significantly greater.

I would be quite uncomfortable relying upon a DAM system (or any other database centric application) for which support has been withdrawn.

It's true that the OP doesn't have to replace idImager tomorrow morning (but I suspect he already knows that). However, it's very prudent to start thinking about migration plans and it's certainly a an appropriate time to be asking questions in a forum such as this.

Well.. I'm pretty sure if you don't have plans to use new cameras and can live with the bugs and software as it currently stands, then most users would be able to successfully use Idi for many years to come.

I'm in the your camp though on being prudent abuot moving around ,etc... and agree it is good to know what is out there.

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MisterBG
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Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager
In reply to fuego6, Oct 8, 2012

fuego6 wrote:

MisterBG wrote:

It puzzles me as to why people think it essential they  replace their software immediately it loses manufacturer support.

My copy of IDImager has not self destructed or ceased to work. It's still doing the excellent job that it always has and I see no reason to consider any alternative.

I've looked at 'Photo Supreme' as an alternative, but my initial impression is I do not like the UI, although further investigation may modify my opinion. I think the "discount" upgrade price is a cynical way of extracting more hard-earned cash from IDImager supporters. As far as I'm concerned there's no reason to stop using IDImager for the foreseeable future, since it's the best tool for  labelling, organising and cataloging my images. I've taken a quick look at some of the alternative DAM programs suggested here (mostly the free ones), but my impression is that they appear to vary between cumbersome and unworkable in their application.

-- hide signature --

>To err is Human. To really foul things up you need a computer.

While I agree with your reasoning... there are a number of reasons to start looking for new software:

  1. new cameras will not be supported (ie: RAW formats, metadata)
  2. bugs will not be corrected (and there are still many out there)
  3. no enhancements of course... (I was hoping for a long list of them!)
  4. behind the curve? - I like to stay current with the software I use... as other move on, the user to user support will diminish as well.

Sure - the software will not decay on your machine... but... will you say the same in a year?  I've been using LR more and more and while it isn't ideal for keywording... it is amazingly fast to find image, filter them, create smart galleries and of course, professionally edit, print and create galleries all in a package that has tons of user support.  The icing on the cake is the new GPS module.. while again, not ideal, is way ahead of Idimager's user provided script.

Just my 2 cents...

Before IDImager, I was a long time user of IMatch, which worked fine with basic data, but the XMP editor was a nightmare to use. I just went back to their site and despite all their promises of a new version, it's still the same old thing that I gave up on about three years ago. One of the main reasons I switched to IDImager was because of the much more user friendly interface when it comes to adding metadata, title, description, keywords etc. My initial impression with Photo Supreme is that the UI has taken a step back, although I'm going to work with it for a little longer before making a decision. I'm still of the opinion that PhotoSupreme is a cynical way of extracting more ca$h from the exisiting IDI user base - the update "discount" is hardly generous. They are unlikely to get any more money from me.

I'm afraid I cannot see that any of your reasons to change are valid. The database is not camera dependent, it's merely a database of files (and they don't even need to be picture files). Provided codecs are available for any new raw formats, to display previews, there's no reason why new file formats will not be supported, and the metadata format is already defined, so any changes to that will be minimal. I don't have any problems with the 'bugs' that you have, and I cannot think of any enhancements that I would like incorporated. Of course, if you are one of the people that must have the "latest thing" then you'll never be satisfied. For my part, I'm quite happy to use a program that I'm comfortable and familiar with and is stable in operation.

I've looked at a few of the alternatives that have been suggested above, but so far I'm not impressed with anything.

-- hide signature --

>To err is Human. To really foul things up you need a computer.

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fuego6
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Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager
In reply to MisterBG, Oct 9, 2012

MisterBG wrote:

fuego6 wrote:

MisterBG wrote:

It puzzles me as to why people think it essential they  replace their software immediately it loses manufacturer support.

My copy of IDImager has not self destructed or ceased to work. It's still doing the excellent job that it always has and I see no reason to consider any alternative.

I've looked at 'Photo Supreme' as an alternative, but my initial impression is I do not like the UI, although further investigation may modify my opinion. I think the "discount" upgrade price is a cynical way of extracting more hard-earned cash from IDImager supporters. As far as I'm concerned there's no reason to stop using IDImager for the foreseeable future, since it's the best tool for  labelling, organising and cataloging my images. I've taken a quick look at some of the alternative DAM programs suggested here (mostly the free ones), but my impression is that they appear to vary between cumbersome and unworkable in their application.

-- hide signature --

>To err is Human. To really foul things up you need a computer.

While I agree with your reasoning... there are a number of reasons to start looking for new software:

  1. new cameras will not be supported (ie: RAW formats, metadata)
  2. bugs will not be corrected (and there are still many out there)
  3. no enhancements of course... (I was hoping for a long list of them!)
  4. behind the curve? - I like to stay current with the software I use... as other move on, the user to user support will diminish as well.

Sure - the software will not decay on your machine... but... will you say the same in a year?  I've been using LR more and more and while it isn't ideal for keywording... it is amazingly fast to find image, filter them, create smart galleries and of course, professionally edit, print and create galleries all in a package that has tons of user support.  The icing on the cake is the new GPS module.. while again, not ideal, is way ahead of Idimager's user provided script.

Just my 2 cents...

Before IDImager, I was a long time user of IMatch, which worked fine with basic data, but the XMP editor was a nightmare to use. I just went back to their site and despite all their promises of a new version, it's still the same old thing that I gave up on about three years ago. One of the main reasons I switched to IDImager was because of the much more user friendly interface when it comes to adding metadata, title, description, keywords etc. My initial impression with Photo Supreme is that the UI has taken a step back, although I'm going to work with it for a little longer before making a decision. I'm still of the opinion that PhotoSupreme is a cynical way of extracting more ca$h from the exisiting IDI user base - the update "discount" is hardly generous. They are unlikely to get any more money from me.

I'm afraid I cannot see that any of your reasons to change are valid. The database is not camera dependent, it's merely a database of files (and they don't even need to be picture files). Provided codecs are available for any new raw formats, to display previews, there's no reason why new file formats will not be supported, and the metadata format is already defined, so any changes to that will be minimal. I don't have any problems with the 'bugs' that you have, and I cannot think of any enhancements that I would like incorporated. Of course, if you are one of the people that must have the "latest thing" then you'll never be satisfied. For my part, I'm quite happy to use a program that I'm comfortable and familiar with and is stable in operation.

I've looked at a few of the alternatives that have been suggested above, but so far I'm not impressed with anything.

-- hide signature --

>To err is Human. To really foul things up you need a computer.

I'm happy you like the program and will continue to use it... new cameras come with new RAW formats - which aren't supported in the software.  You can't "download a codec" to use the recipes in the program if they aren't in the program to begin with.  Also, if new camera specific metadata is added or modified, then the software won't know what to do with it.

IMatch NG is ready for beta testing (I've already seen it and it is quite nice).   Supreme is a different product altogether - and a smart marketing move.  It's at least 75% faster than idi but it is missing a large number of items that I feel are rather important to the average user (GPS).  However, see the recent discussion in Idi forums for more info - I agree with someone that posted about the user base of DAM software... I bet you would be hard pressed to find 2% of camera users who actually manage their photos - most just thrown them in their "My Pictures" folder and never look at them again... share with facebook.. print at walmart still.

I don't need to have the latest thing... just like to use software that is supported and being kept up to date.  I think you'll find the majority of users agree as the forums seem to be full of folks moving on to something else.. supreme or other..

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bwheeler350
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Re: DAM software replacement for IDImager
In reply to MisterBG, Oct 13, 2012

MisterBG wrote:

It puzzles me as to why people think it essential they  replace their software immediately it loses manufacturer support.

My copy of IDImager has not self destructed or ceased to work. It's still doing the excellent job that it always has and I see no reason to consider any alternative.

I'v

For my purposes, IDImager ceased to work when I got a Nikon D800. The large NEF files failed to process consistently. Thumbnails displayed with a red "X" instead of an image. I hoped for a 64 bit version to solve the problem, but the announcement of no further development rules that out. After some study, I've concluded that my current needs will be met by Lightroom 4.2 well enough to justify the transition work. Already happy with making the change. Hope others find good solutions too.

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