Adding FF D600, can't decide which body to dump

Started Sep 21, 2012 | Discussions
Adventsam
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,983
Like?
Adding FF D600, can't decide which body to dump
Sep 21, 2012

GH2 or OMD?

Probably GH2 as the OMD offers a very nice compact package with the 14/20 and pancake zoom; the D600 aint that much bigger than the new GH3, which is incredible.

Looking forward to the D600 and OMD, sorry to see the GH2 go I guess.

Nikon D600 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH2 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH3
If you believe there are incorrect tags, please send us this post using our feedback form.
Detail Man
Forum ProPosts: 14,950
Like?
Re: Adding FF D600, can't decide which body to dump
In reply to Adventsam, Sep 21, 2012

Adventsam wrote:

GH2 or OMD?

Probably GH2 as the OMD offers a very nice compact package with the 14/20 and pancake zoom; the D600 aint that much bigger than the new GH3, which is incredible.

Looking forward to the D600 and OMD, sorry to see the GH2 go I guess.

Sam's romanesque M43 body gladiatorial combat. Whose entrails will be spilled today, my precious ?

"A fuddy thing happened on the way to the forum" ...

Am thinking of dumping the lot, and moving to d600 completely. Have just realised that in crop mode, 1.5x, the D600 also has 12mp in the 3:2 ratio, same as new GH3 and OMD. Yes the OMD is smaller but the GH2 and GH3 in particular are moving toward the D600 size, and I'm happy in fact with the larger body anyway. So that's it, good-bye DM and all the m43 crew, good and bad, out of here. and in with the new

Sell everything and buy a DMC-FZ200. How can you live without that constant F=2.8 lens system?

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Adventsam
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,983
Like?
Re: Adding FF D600, can't decide which body to dump
In reply to Detail Man, Sep 21, 2012

Detail Man wrote:

Adventsam wrote:

GH2 or OMD?

Probably GH2 as the OMD offers a very nice compact package with the 14/20 and pancake zoom; the D600 aint that much bigger than the new GH3, which is incredible.

Looking forward to the D600 and OMD, sorry to see the GH2 go I guess.

Sam's romanesque M43 body gladiatorial combat. Whose entrails will be spilled today, my precious ?

Am thinking of dumping the lot, and moving to d600 completely. Have just realised that in crop mode, 1.5x, the D600 also has 12mp in the 3:2 ratio, same as new GH3 and OMD. Yes the OMD is smaller but the GH2 and GH3 in particular are moving toward the D600 size, and I'm happy in fact with the larger body anyway. So that's it, good-bye DM and all the m43 crew, good and bad, out of here. and in with the new

"A fuddy thing happened on the way to the forum" ...

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Jorginho
Veteran MemberPosts: 6,969Gear list
Like?
Good luck!
In reply to Adventsam, Sep 21, 2012

Here are some size comparisons for you. With some lenses...

I think Gh3 with a lens is much smaller..
http://camerasize.com/compact/#381.336,378.327,ha,t

I believe you have the 100-300 mm lens....Another comparison:

http://camerasize.com/compact/#381.35,378.243,ha,t

Here similar lenses OMD and D600

http://camerasize.com/compact/#378.317,289.336,ha,t

Frontal size comparison:

http://camerasize.com/compact/#378.327,289.336,ha,f

If you look at the weight,
D600 with a
85 1.8,
70-300 VR
24-85 (unstablised BTW, f3,5 to f4,5)

Weighs 2,3 Kg

Oly OM-D with:
45 1.8
45-175 Panny
12-35 Panny

Weighs 1100 gram.....Take the Gh3 and it becomes 1200 gram.

To me, these are significant differences. if you are using a 100-300 mm (200-600 mm equiv.) lens, the weight differences just jumps up with 1,5 Kg.

Whether something is light, light enough etc is subjective. To me with just some lenses that are not at all the biggest in their range shows that m43s as a system (as we can expect) is a lot lighter and smaller than a FF cam.

Have fun on the Nikon forum and with your cam!

 Jorginho's gear list:Jorginho's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH2 Olympus PEN E-PL5 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH4 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 14-45mm F3.5-5.6 ASPH OIS +9 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
rickyclicks
Regular MemberPosts: 412
Like?
Re: Adding FF D600, can't decide which body to dump
In reply to Adventsam, Sep 21, 2012

Am thinking of dumping the lot, and moving to d600 completely

This from the man who previously declared DSLRs as being dead and the GH1 as being the best thing since sliced bread (before dumping it for the Samsung NX followed by the Sony NEX followed by the...well, you get the picture.)

So that's it, good-bye DM and all the m43 crew, good and bad, out of here

I anticipate that many users on the Nikon forum will soon be making use of the Ignore button...

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
don_van_vliet
Contributing MemberPosts: 618
Like?
I would keep one M43 model...
In reply to Adventsam, Sep 21, 2012

Even though it's tempting to ditch them all. You never know, you might miss your M43 gear?

Unfortunately then you have a conundrum. The OMD is liable to depreciate more than the already depreciated GH2. On the other hand, the OMD is probably more different (smaller form factor) than the D600.

Up to you!

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
tt321
Senior MemberPosts: 3,137Gear list
Like?
Re: Good luck!
In reply to Jorginho, Sep 21, 2012

Jorginho wrote:

If you look at the weight,
D600 with a
85 1.8,
70-300 VR
24-85 (unstablised BTW, f3,5 to f4,5)

Weighs 2,3 Kg

Oly OM-D with:
45 1.8
45-175 Panny
12-35 Panny

Weighs 1100 gram.....Take the Gh3 and it becomes 1200 gram.

This captures the main problem perfectly. If one is happy with an M4/3 setup like this, there is no way to achieve equal size/weight in 135 format. They simply don't offer a 90/3.5 lens the size and weight of the 45/1.8 (probably cannot, even if they tried), a 24-70/5.6 the size and weight of the 12-35 (probably cannot) and a 90-350/8-11 the size and weight of the 45-175 (certainly cannot).

One day some company might put out a 135 format interchangeable lens camera the size and weight of the ME Super and that day I will consider getting into that format. OK I will not be so extreme. I will pounce when it got to Nikon FA size shape and weight.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Adventsam
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,983
Like?
Re: Good luck!
In reply to tt321, Sep 21, 2012

tt321 wrote:

Jorginho wrote:

If you look at the weight,
D600 with a
85 1.8,
70-300 VR
24-85 (unstablised BTW, f3,5 to f4,5)

Weighs 2,3 Kg

Oly OM-D with:
45 1.8
45-175 Panny
12-35 Panny

Weighs 1100 gram.....Take the Gh3 and it becomes 1200 gram.

This captures the main problem perfectly. If one is happy with an M4/3 setup like this, there is no way to achieve equal size/weight in 135 format. They simply don't offer a 90/3.5 lens the size and weight of the 45/1.8 (probably cannot, even if they tried), a 24-70/5.6 the size and weight of the 12-35 (probably cannot) and a 90-350/8-11 the size and weight of the 45-175 (certainly cannot).

Well, the d600 body is 800g aprox and the 50mm f1.4g is 280g, so just over a kg?

Now, the d600 is 50mm native FX at 1.4 (nothing in the m43 to match that in dof) and in DX mode its a 75mm f2.0 (better than 45mm imo for FL) so to get this flexibility on my OMD, I need to take the OMD or GH2 and the 25mm f1.4 and the 45mm f1.8 and even then, dof is in the f3 zone not the 1.4-2.0 zone? If I was to take the three m43 items, gh2/25/45 then its about 800g as well, so I save 200g, little lighter with omd(plus its ibis) little heavier with a gh3.

The spec of the 50mm f1.4 for £250 is incredible, 9 blades, 0.4 close focus etc etc.

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Lenses/Camera-Lens-Database/Nikon/AF-S-Nikkor-50mm-f-1.4G/ (camera) 680 (cameraname) Nikon-D7000

All in all the fx/dx option has changed my perception and the reduced d600 size body really makes it less intrusive with the lighter nikor primes and other options.

One day some company might put out a 135 format interchangeable lens camera the size and weight of the ME Super and that day I will consider getting into that format. OK I will not be so extreme. I will pounce when it got to Nikon FA size shape and weight.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Adventsam
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,983
Like?
Re: Adding FF D600, can't decide which body to dump
In reply to rickyclicks, Sep 21, 2012

Well, FF was always big and bulky, the d600 has changed all that and added everything I could ever need in a system, incl. wi-fi and android interface, FF video and DX video and good resolution FF, 24MP for landscape and DX 12MP for sport and reach, wildlife.

An example, the d800 with the 24-120vr4, in FF is much longer than the new 12-35? if I mount the GH3 with the 12-35, I still would be thinking, well 70mm is a bit short, so would take something else, OK another lens in the pocket but if it was the new 35-100 to match the 12-35, all up weight is best part of 1kg, but the 2x lens are 650g, the exact same as the 24-120 which is a 1 lens solution for 24-120 fx, f4 (so f2 required on m43!) and then in dx its 35-180, (f6 dof) so exactly same dof as the new 35-100 but wider and a tad shorter, but I've got 24-180 covered in a vr lens with dof equivalent to f2 on m43 between 24 and 120, and as good or better than the 35-180 on dx.

The cost,
d600, pounds GBP
Body, 1.6k, the lens 0.8k, 2.4k
m43,
Body, your choice, the lens, 1x12-35+1x35-100, aprox £2.0k plus body.

If you add in the flexibility of 1 x lens solution, plus the fact it can replace and better with FF every prime lens in m43 between 24-120 and probably give the others a run, it seems m43 has out-priced itself and it certainky cant live with the performance envelope of FF.

rickyclicks wrote:

Am thinking of dumping the lot, and moving to d600 completely

This from the man who previously declared DSLRs as being dead and the GH1 as being the best thing since sliced bread (before dumping it for the Samsung NX followed by the Sony NEX followed by the...well, you get the picture.)

So that's it, good-bye DM and all the m43 crew, good and bad, out of here

I anticipate that many users on the Nikon forum will soon be making use of the Ignore button...

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Adventsam
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,983
Like?
Re: I would keep one M43 model...
In reply to don_van_vliet, Sep 21, 2012

don_van_vliet wrote:

Even though it's tempting to ditch them all. You never know, you might miss your M43 gear?

Unfortunately then you have a conundrum. The OMD is liable to depreciate more than the already depreciated GH2. On the other hand, the OMD is probably more different (smaller form factor) than the D600.

Up to you!

I know, I am a bit doubtful, but my daughter has the GH1 now and I will give her the 14/20mm primes and maybe buy her the pancake and compact zoom. If I can I will get her the new pen? so I can borrow a really compact ibis body.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
tt321
Senior MemberPosts: 3,137Gear list
Like?
Re: Good luck!
In reply to Adventsam, Sep 21, 2012

Adventsam wrote:

tt321 wrote:

Jorginho wrote:

If you look at the weight,
D600 with a
85 1.8,
70-300 VR
24-85 (unstablised BTW, f3,5 to f4,5)

Weighs 2,3 Kg

Oly OM-D with:
45 1.8
45-175 Panny
12-35 Panny

Weighs 1100 gram.....Take the Gh3 and it becomes 1200 gram.

This captures the main problem perfectly. If one is happy with an M4/3 setup like this, there is no way to achieve equal size/weight in 135 format. They simply don't offer a 90/3.5 lens the size and weight of the 45/1.8 (probably cannot, even if they tried), a 24-70/5.6 the size and weight of the 12-35 (probably cannot) and a 90-350/8-11 the size and weight of the 45-175 (certainly cannot).

Well, the d600 body is 800g aprox and the 50mm f1.4g is 280g, so just over a kg?

Just over a kg for the minimal weight in your hand. Do you occasionally shoot single-handedly? You may be healthy and strong but if a strain-related problem should happen on your shooting hand wrist - a surprisingly common condition for office workers who use computers and mice a lot, it could mean no shooting for a few days. Currently my heaviest holding in the hand shooting weight is 600g or so. I have a true laptop with optical drive weighing less than 1080g.

Now, the d600 is 50mm native FX at 1.4 (nothing in the m43 to match that in dof) and in DX mode its a 75mm f2.0 (better than 45mm imo for FL) so to get this flexibility on my OMD, I need to take the OMD or GH2 and the 25mm f1.4 and the 45mm f1.8 and even then, dof is in the f3 zone not the 1.4-2.0 zone? If I was to take the three m43 items, gh2/25/45 then its about 800g as well, so I save 200g, little lighter with omd(plus its ibis) little heavier with a gh3.

The spec of the 50mm f1.4 for £250 is incredible, 9 blades, 0.4 close focus etc etc.

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Lenses/Camera-Lens-Database/Nikon/AF-S-Nikkor-50mm-f-1.4G/ (camera) 680 (cameraname) Nikon-D7000

All in all the fx/dx option has changed my perception and the reduced d600 size body really makes it less intrusive with the lighter nikor primes and other options.

Here you are describing an entire game change, from a compact zoom-dominated approach to a substantial size single prime set-up. This indicates that you are not happy with your current system. In this case yes a switch is appropriate.

Indeed the non-lux primes on 135 represent remarkably good value, even if their camera bodies do not. It's just the opposite with M4/3, if you are willing to buy last year's camera bodies (which I guess you are not) you can get remarkable savings, not possible with DSLRs. The D3100 is essentially the same price now as one year ago, whilst the E-PM1 is less than half price. Which DSLR body retails for £150 new?

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
joergzielosko
Regular MemberPosts: 270Gear list
Like?
Re: Adding FF D600, can't decide which body to dump
In reply to Adventsam, Sep 21, 2012

Adventsam wrote:

Well, FF was always big and bulky, the d600 has changed all that

Really?

http://j.mp/P5C5IL

 joergzielosko's gear list:joergzielosko's gear list
Olympus OM-D E-M5 Panasonic Leica Summilux DG 25mm F1.4 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 12mm 1:2 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 60mm 1:2.8 Macro +9 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
rockygag
Senior MemberPosts: 1,106
Like?
Re: Adding FF D600, can't decide which body to dump
In reply to joergzielosko, Sep 21, 2012

I had a D300 with a 24-70 AFS ... ( NO VR) the D600 is a tiny bit smaller.

I had the Sigma 120-300 2.8, and a very expensive Gitzo Carbon tripod to hold it up.

I also have the 80-200 .....

The Nikon took a back pack, and I always had to make a lens choice to to size.

The OM-D kit fits in a messenger bag with ALL my lenses.

For me, it is a FACT that the DOF CONTROL on FF is much better on FF than M-4/3. Now the actual point in case becomes what does that FACT have to do with the way that I shoot in MOST of my situations. The real practical answer is meh, not much, but the time I get a portrait in focus, I'm not shooting wide open any way.

I tend not to photograph black cats in coal mines, and from all I have seen, the PRACTICAL differences in low light primes/high ISO combinations are minimal.

What cannot be changed is that on both systems a 25mm lens has the distortion character of a 25mm lens, and this is very important to take into account when composing and keeping working distance in mind.

If you need frame rates, AND cropping, the OMD seems to do a better job a long range shooting. Just love my 100-300 for the boys surfing. Clearly, I could drop a really big bag of cash in Nikons hands and get a 600 F4 VR lens, but seriously?? For the kids surfing.

When I look at my output needs and shooting needs without devolving into the esoterica of gear reviews, to me, the D600 and OM-D are equivalent systems. Clearly they may not be for the OP.

On a cash baisis:

OM-D 1K ... D600 2K
12-35 1.5K 24-70 2.2
45 1.8 400 85 1.8 400
25 550 50 439

At the end of the photographic day, not much in it for lenses in the same class ...

Of course, the Nikon lets me spend WAY WAY more on lenses if I want to.

On the other hand, there is no way to mount a Leica M on a D600.

Hope that helps the OP's thought process.

Dave

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
jim stirling
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,654Gear list
Like?
Re: Good luck!
In reply to tt321, Sep 21, 2012

Sam,

the DX crop mode is about 10.5MP , I would take a good look at the new G range of F1.8 primes which offer a very good weight/price to quality ratio{ 28, 50 and 85mm F1.8} . I am also looking at teh new 24-85Gvr2 as a lightweighT walkabout for my D800

While you will never be able to get as light a set up for FF as you can for mft it need not be back breaking.. and with the three F1.8 lenses I mentioned you have a very good basis for a kit.

Personally I would suggest keeping a mFT kit on the go as I have mentioned before mFT and FF are almost perfect partners with each working to their own strengths.
Jim

 jim stirling's gear list:jim stirling's gear list
Olympus C-8080 Wide Zoom Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF1 Nikon D800 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH3 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 +13 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Timur Born
Senior MemberPosts: 3,755
Like?
Re: Adding FF D600, can't decide which body to dump
In reply to joergzielosko, Sep 21, 2012
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
jim stirling
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,654Gear list
Like?
Re: Adding FF D600, can't decide which body to dump
In reply to Timur Born, Sep 21, 2012

Timur Born wrote:

Even better:

http://camerasize.com/compact/#290.327,378.327,162.322,289.336,371.359,ha,t

Now to be fair the F2.8 lenses give the same DOF and light gathering as an F1.4 mFT zoom would, I am pretty sure that F1.4 zooms are not available .There are also a number of small { realitivly speaking } prime lenses such as the 28mmF1.8G ,50mmF1.8g and 85mmF1.8G all of which deliver very good results for the price
Jim

 jim stirling's gear list:jim stirling's gear list
Olympus C-8080 Wide Zoom Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF1 Nikon D800 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH3 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 +13 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Adventsam
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,983
Like?
Re: Adding FF D600, can't decide which body to dump
In reply to joergzielosko, Sep 21, 2012

Its lighter and smaller overall than the 700 and has lots of video features.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Timur Born
Senior MemberPosts: 3,755
Like?
Re: Adding FF D600, can't decide which body to dump
In reply to jim stirling, Sep 21, 2012

Of course, I completely understand what you mean. But when you ain't gonna use the fast lenses then why dump the smaller system for FF just to get the same results?

Here is a nice comparison at 50 mm focal length:

http://camerasize.com/compact/#289.352,378.353,290.353,ha,t

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Adventsam
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,983
Like?
Re: Good luck!
In reply to jim stirling, Sep 21, 2012

Good advice Jim, its time for me to have a serious kit and portable-flexible kit(m43) as well. I think the d600 is a great result for people like myself, frustrated at the way the GH3 has gone.

jim stirling wrote:

Sam,

the DX crop mode is about 10.5MP , I would take a good look at the new G range of F1.8 primes which offer a very good weight/price to quality ratio{ 28, 50 and 85mm F1.8} . I am also looking at teh new 24-85Gvr2 as a lightweighT walkabout for my D800

While you will never be able to get as light a set up for FF as you can for mft it need not be back breaking.. and with the three F1.8 lenses I mentioned you have a very good basis for a kit.

Personally I would suggest keeping a mFT kit on the go as I have mentioned before mFT and FF are almost perfect partners with each working to their own strengths.
Jim

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Adventsam
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,983
Like?
Re: Adding FF D600, can't decide which body to dump
In reply to Timur Born, Sep 21, 2012

Timur Born wrote:

Of course, I completely understand what you mean. But when you ain't gonna use the fast lenses then why dump the smaller system for FF just to get the same results?

Here is a nice comparison at 50 mm focal length:

http://camerasize.com/compact/#289.352,378.353,290.353,ha,t

or
http://camerasize.com/compact/#289.352,378.353,290.353,381.352,ha,t

Thing is, the d800 in the FF guise is a real 1.4 or 1.8 (dof 0.7/.9) the blades are 9 and rounded, so even if you stop down its nice as well. The d600 also has built-in flash!

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads