Updated specs on the EOS 6D

Started Sep 16, 2012 | Discussions
bobn2
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Re: DPReview throwing caution to the wind
In reply to Martin Muehlemann, Sep 17, 2012

Martin Muehlemann wrote:

cs hauser wrote:

I guess DPR doesn't care about the NDA anymore.

http://www.dpreview.com/products/canon/slrs/canon_eos6d

Sold to me for 2000 bucks

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Now released, news article and preview. I'd go with Andy Westlake's conclusion

Overall, though, it's difficult to shake the feeling that the EOS 6D simply lacks the 'wow' factor of its main rival. Whereas Nikon seems to have taken the approach of taking away as little as possible from D800 when creating the D600, Canon appears almost to have gone the other way, removing as much as it thinks it can get away with at the price. The result is the kind of conservative, slightly unimaginative design that's become the company's hallmark. It's still bound to be a very good camera, of course; just perhaps not quite as good as it could be.

The thing Andy raises that hadn't struck me is the issue of EF-S lenses, of course the 6D won't take them, so upgraders from APS-C are likely to have to change lenses anyway, in which case they might as well look at the D600.
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buellom
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Re: DPReview throwing caution to the wind
In reply to bobn2, Sep 17, 2012

Disappointed too. But that EF-S lenses can't be mounted on the 6D seems not an issue to me. I'm wondering how many people would do that anyway. You simply don't get the potential of the camera this way. When I upgraded from a 40D to a 5DII I could use the Tokina 12-24, but beside some test shots I never did, it didn't feel right, somehow compromised. (Though, you get a FF coverage at 19mm with (just) acceptable corners. The Samyang 14mm and now the Tokina 16-28mm are far better, also the Tokina 12-14 was very good on the 40D.)

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bobn2
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Re: DPReview throwing caution to the wind
In reply to buellom, Sep 17, 2012

buellom wrote:

Disappointed too. But that EF-S lenses can't be mounted on the 6D seems not an issue to me. I'm wondering how many people would do that anyway. You simply don't get the potential of the camera this way. When I upgraded from a 40D to a 5DII I could use the Tokina 12-24, but beside some test shots I never did, it didn't feel right, somehow compromised. (Though, you get a FF coverage at 19mm with (just) acceptable corners. The Samyang 14mm and now the Tokina 16-28mm are far better, also the Tokina 12-14 was very good on the 40D.)

I take your point, but the truth is that the ability to use current lenses will take the sting out of the decision to upgrade. Faced with losing their lenses anyway, people are more likely to move to another brand. Nikon at least has crop mode, which means people can count on using their DX lenses. Certainly you are right, they are likely to upgrade lenses as soon as they can, but it saves them the prospect of doing it in one go.
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David Hull
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Re: DPReview throwing caution to the wind
In reply to bobn2, Sep 17, 2012

bobn2 wrote:

Now released, news article and preview. I'd go with Andy Westlake's conclusion

Overall, though, it's difficult to shake the feeling that the EOS 6D simply lacks the 'wow' factor of its main rival. Whereas Nikon seems to have taken the approach of taking away as little as possible from D800 when creating the D600, Canon appears almost to have gone the other way, removing as much as it thinks it can get away with at the price. The result is the kind of conservative, slightly unimaginative design that's become the company's hallmark. It's still bound to be a very good camera, of course; just perhaps not quite as good as it could be.

The thing Andy raises that hadn't struck me is the issue of EF-S lenses, of course the 6D won't take them, so upgraders from APS-C are likely to have to change lenses anyway, in which case they might as well look at the D600.
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Bob

I look at DPR the same way I look at Stereophile or other magazines. These guys tend to pull their punches when reviewing gear they take advert money for. Taken in that context this is a pretty scathing comment – and I agree, from the looks of things, quite well deserved.

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David Hull
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Re: iPhone 6D
In reply to Press Correspondent, Sep 17, 2012

Press Correspondent wrote:

With GPS, WiFi and a touchscreen, you can browse web or email and use GoogleMaps for navigation. It even has a built-in camera! Sorry, it's a joke... very funny Canon!

Good one +1.

The difference is I will probably buy an iPhone, not likely a 6D but then it is clear that the 6D wasn't designed with me in mind.

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carlk
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Re: DPReview throwing caution to the wind
In reply to bobn2, Sep 17, 2012

Looks like a repackaged 5DII. The question one would ask is what's the point?

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noirdesir
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Re: DPReview throwing caution to the wind
In reply to bobn2, Sep 17, 2012

bobn2 wrote:

The thing Andy raises that hadn't struck me is the issue of EF-S lenses, of course the 6D won't take them, so upgraders from APS-C are likely to have to change lenses anyway, in which case they might as well look at the D600.

When I upgraded from a D200 to a D3 (ie, DX to FX), I got rid of all my (two) DX (zoom) lenses right away. Admittedly, I actually replaced only one of them with a somewhat corresponding FX lens as I had rarely used the other. As all my other lenses where FX primes already, it was not a difficult decision to take, in particular since there was only one single DX prime in Nikon's line-up at the time (10.5 mm f/2.8 FE).

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qianp2k
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Re: DPReview throwing caution to the wind
In reply to noirdesir, Sep 17, 2012

noirdesir wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

The thing Andy raises that hadn't struck me is the issue of EF-S lenses, of course the 6D won't take them, so upgraders from APS-C are likely to have to change lenses anyway, in which case they might as well look at the D600.

When I upgraded from a D200 to a D3 (ie, DX to FX), I got rid of all my (two) DX (zoom) lenses right away. Admittedly, I actually replaced only one of them with a somewhat corresponding FX lens as I had rarely used the other. As all my other lenses where FX primes already, it was not a difficult decision to take, in particular since there was only one single DX prime in Nikon's line-up at the time (10.5 mm f/2.8 FE).

The reality is that although Nikon FX can use DX lenses but they don't run well. Serious photogs will not use DX lenses on FX bodies that is my impression.

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Apewithacamera
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Maybe the flash pops out from behind that 6D logo? ;) nt
In reply to rrccad, Sep 17, 2012

No text

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Martin Muehlemann
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Re: DPReview throwing caution to the wind
In reply to bobn2, Sep 17, 2012

bobn2 wrote:

The thing Andy raises that hadn't struck me is the issue of EF-S lenses, of course the 6D won't take them, so upgraders from APS-C are likely to have to change lenses anyway, in which case they might as well look at the D600.
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A fullframe sensor deserves a proper HG lens. The 24-70 II is what you need in any case to make the most out of such a sensor. A bad lens will make the best cam look awful. Put a 28-105 on a 1D-X and the images will be poor.

Ok, Canon release bad sample images of the 5D III too. Upgraders can do so too ...

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bobn2
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Re: DPReview throwing caution to the wind
In reply to qianp2k, Sep 17, 2012

qianp2k wrote:

noirdesir wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

The thing Andy raises that hadn't struck me is the issue of EF-S lenses, of course the 6D won't take them, so upgraders from APS-C are likely to have to change lenses anyway, in which case they might as well look at the D600.

When I upgraded from a D200 to a D3 (ie, DX to FX), I got rid of all my (two) DX (zoom) lenses right away. Admittedly, I actually replaced only one of them with a somewhat corresponding FX lens as I had rarely used the other. As all my other lenses where FX primes already, it was not a difficult decision to take, in particular since there was only one single DX prime in Nikon's line-up at the time (10.5 mm f/2.8 FE).

The reality is that although Nikon FX can use DX lenses but they don't run well. Serious photogs will not use DX lenses on FX bodies that is my impression.

I think you are right, but people in the market for a budget camera might not want to upgrade all their lenses in one go.
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bobn2
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Re: DPReview throwing caution to the wind
In reply to Martin Muehlemann, Sep 17, 2012

Martin Muehlemann wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

The thing Andy raises that hadn't struck me is the issue of EF-S lenses, of course the 6D won't take them, so upgraders from APS-C are likely to have to change lenses anyway, in which case they might as well look at the D600.
--
Bob

A fullframe sensor deserves a proper HG lens. The 24-70 II is what you need in any case to make the most out of such a sensor. A bad lens will make the best cam look awful. Put a 28-105 on a 1D-X and the images will be poor.

Ok, Canon release bad sample images of the 5D III too. Upgraders can do so too ...

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That assumes people have the spare cash available to swap all their lenses when they buy the camera.
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noirdesir
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Re: DPReview throwing caution to the wind
In reply to bobn2, Sep 17, 2012

bobn2 wrote:

Martin Muehlemann wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

The thing Andy raises that hadn't struck me is the issue of EF-S lenses, of course the 6D won't take them, so upgraders from APS-C are likely to have to change lenses anyway, in which case they might as well look at the D600.
--
Bob

A fullframe sensor deserves a proper HG lens. The 24-70 II is what you need in any case to make the most out of such a sensor. A bad lens will make the best cam look awful. Put a 28-105 on a 1D-X and the images will be poor.

Ok, Canon release bad sample images of the 5D III too. Upgraders can do so too ...

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That assumes people have the spare cash available to swap all their lenses when they buy the camera.

The question is how many DX lenses are to upgrade after all? For most people it will be a wide-angle zoom and a standard zoom. DX primes are still far and few between and most tele zooms stayed full-frame.

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Silvex
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That was really, really funny.
In reply to Press Correspondent, Sep 17, 2012

It reminded of a lady standing next to me at wedding recently taking a picture with her iPhone. She looked at me with a sheepish smile and said, "Yours is much better than mine." I replied, "Well I'm not so sure, mine won't make single call or browse the internet."

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Silvex
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You know what? That completely...
In reply to bobn2, Sep 17, 2012

...escaped me too. Many APS-C users looking to move up will not have a bunch of L-class EF lenses. Because you can't take them (EF-S) with you, so to speak, why not go for the better deal.

This, could really go badly for Canon.

The thing Andy raises that hadn't struck me is the issue of EF-S lenses, of course the 6D won't take them, so upgraders from APS-C are likely to have to change lenses anyway, in which case they might as well look at the D600.

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Mikael Risedal
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Re: Exposure. MYTH MYTH and MYTH
In reply to qianp2k, Sep 17, 2012

learn how a digital sensor works

this identical exposed cameras, and they are exposed after the high lights so the sky and clouds are reproduced without clipping and then corrected in the lower levels, middle tones so we can se the landscape

Only a camera with a large dynamic range can reflect/reproduce the motif well and preferably with out banding and pattern noise

d800 to the left and one of mine 5dmk2 to the right

qianp2k wrote:

Great Bustard wrote:

oscarvdvelde wrote:

qianp2k wrote:

I don't need and don't want to pull shadow 4-5 stops so it's not that critical to me.

In a correctly exposed shot you would rarely need to lift shadows...

The only reason a "correctly exposed" shot would not require shadow lifting is because the shadows are displayed dark per the tone curve applied to the photo.

Shadows are shadows as your eyes see. Exposure is displayed in histogram. Towards left is under-exposure while towards right is over-exposure

...but look at it from the other side. You may wish to recover blown highlights.

This is impossible, by definition. Anything blown is blown. Period. What you can do, as you suggest in the paragraph immediately below, is use a lower exposure (as opposed to "underexpose") to preserve the highlights and then apply the appropriate tone curve to the photo.

Not quite true. You always can recover some details in highlights unless it’s well beyond 18% grey-level.

If the camera offers you 4-5 stops cleaner shadows you can underexpose to save the highlights and pull the whole image back to what it should look like, without getting much noise.

As I said above, this is not "underexposure", but rather using a lower exposure to preserve the highlights, in combination with the desired tone curve to render the desired photo.

This is not a free ride but comes with the price of extra noises after lifting shadow. Your lower exposure is the same as under-exposure from the perspective of histogram as most people understand.

The whole notion of "underexposure" and "overexposure" only have meaning in terms of the visual properties of the final photo. An "underexposed" photo means that a higher exposure would have resulted in a better photo, and an "overexposed" photo means that a lower exposure would have resulted in a better photo.

From the perspective of histogram.

If a lower exposure results in a better photo, then the lower exposure is not "underexposed". This is more than semantics -- it is central to photography, and directly tied to the DR capabilities of the sensor.

That tactic (that exposed on highlights then pull shadows extremely) or extreme shadow pulling doesn’t result better photos as we have seen enough. It usually results to HDR surreal look and more noises in shadow areas. That usually destroys color tonality and accuracy. It doesn’t replace the traditional better photography techniques such as using GND filters on highlights and expose on mid-tone if you could. It’s largely the mid-tone determines IQ not shadows nor highlights areas. Personally I also more care highlight recovery and only need to pull shadow moderately on my taste.

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Press Correspondent
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Re: Exposure. MYTH MYTH and MYTH
In reply to Mikael Risedal, Sep 18, 2012

Mikael Risedal wrote:

learn how a digital sensor works

this identical exposed cameras, and they are exposed after the high lights so the sky and clouds are reproduced without clipping and then corrected in the lower levels, middle tones so we can se the landscape

Only a camera with a large dynamic range can reflect/reproduce the motif well and preferably with out banding and pattern noise

Or you can bracket with any camera and capture a 20-stop DR like a full moon landscape that even D800 cannot get in one shot

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qianp2k
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Re: Exposure. MYTH MYTH and MYTH
In reply to Mikael Risedal, Sep 18, 2012

Mikael Risedal wrote:

Only a camera with a large dynamic range can reflect/reproduce the motif well and preferably with out banding and pattern noise

d800 to the left and one of mine 5dmk2 to the right

Although left one from D800 seems still usable at this small size for facebook purpose, but nothing worth to save for serious photography with pretty crappy IQ – destruction of color tonality and color accuracy, and noisy foreground. I can put a 3 or 4-stop GND to dim the sky while expose on the mid-tone that between sky and dark front, then I only need to pull 2-3 stops and will have a better photo from 5D2.

I only need to pull shadows in photos like this one moderately on my taste. I don't like highly contrasty photos that usually ended in the garbage bin.

BEFORE

AFTER

I forgot bring GND in the trip. It's already sunset (below horizon). Sky was still bright while buildings were already in dark shadow. I had to expose somewhat on sky, -100% highlight recovery+software GND, +100% shadow lift plus +1/3 EV in LR4. Not bad. I could do better had I bring my 3-stop 4x6" GND then.

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Dave Luttmann
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Re: Exposure. MYTH MYTH and MYTH
In reply to Mikael Risedal, Sep 18, 2012

Mikael Risedal wrote:

learn how a digital sensor works

this identical exposed cameras, and they are exposed after the high lights so the sky and clouds are reproduced without clipping and then corrected in the lower levels, middle tones so we can se the landscape

Only a camera with a large dynamic range can reflect/reproduce the motif well and preferably with out banding and pattern noise

d800 to the left and one of mine 5dmk2 to the right

That pretty much explains the story. I get no banding on my D800 and very little if ever on my D700. While in Canon land, my 7D, 1Ds2, 1Ds, 40D, 10D and D30 all exhibited banding when pushed.

And yes...some people truly need to learn how a digital sensor works. Qianp2k won't listen though.... so save your keystrokes.

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qianp2k
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Dave Luttmann = Faintandfuzzy
In reply to Dave Luttmann, Sep 18, 2012

troll alert! Dave Luttmann is the real name of Faintandfuzzy as latter is banned in DPR forums, a totally unknown amateru wedding photographer in Victoria, BC, Canada.

http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/7843305573/albums/vancouver-bc-canada
Yah, 5D2 phtoos are total garbage and full of banding, LOL.

Like Faintandfuzzy, Dave Luttmann is in my Ignore List now and will not response from now on.

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