I love my 5d3, but...

Started Sep 13, 2012 | Discussions
Press Correspondent
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FF mirrorless
In reply to chironNYC, Sep 16, 2012

chironNYC wrote:

the only thing that might get me personally away from my investment in Canon at the DSLR/lens level would be a FF NEX with an assortment of excellent lenses.

Sony RX2? Next year perhaps...

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Skip M
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Re: A couple of suggestions...
In reply to bobn2, Sep 16, 2012

bobn2 wrote:

Skip M wrote:

Abraxx wrote:

Thats just crappy trolling.
The D600 is in fact not better than the 5D3 in most of her specs.

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Suggestion 1- Learn how to have a civil conversation. If you had any sense at all, you'd know that I, of all people, am not a troll.

Suggestion 2- Learn how to read. I never said, nor did I imply that the D600 is better than the 5D3 in most of "her" specs. I said it was the equal in many ways of the 5D3. I said that it's superior to the 5D2 in many ways, which if you read the specs, you'd know that it is.

The real difference is not the actuality of the specs but the perception of them. Here the 5DIII has a clear advantage, because it is perceived as being specced nearly as the 1DX - this is of course a false impression, it is half as fast and has a plastic chassis - but what matters is not what is, its what the buyer thinks is, and the D600 is at a clear disadvantage - it is specced below the D4, and therefore perceived as not as good. In practice I would guess the main deficits against the 5DIII make very little difference in the type of photography either camera will be used for.

Bob, could you give me a citation for the idea that the 5D3 has a plastic chassis? Every reference I can find for the construction of the camera says it has a magnesium alloy chassis.
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chironNYC
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Re: FF mirrorless
In reply to Press Correspondent, Sep 16, 2012

Of course I don't really know that much about the RX1 yet. But my instinct is that I would rather it were a FF NEX. The electronics on that camera are fabulous.

There are times when I miss some of the NEX modes when I pick up my 5d3.

Press Correspondent wrote:

chironNYC wrote:

the only thing that might get me personally away from my investment in Canon at the DSLR/lens level would be a FF NEX with an assortment of excellent lenses.

Sony RX2? Next year perhaps...

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Skip M
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Re: FF mirrorless
In reply to Press Correspondent, Sep 16, 2012

Press Correspondent wrote:

chironNYC wrote:

the only thing that might get me personally away from my investment in Canon at the DSLR/lens level would be a FF NEX with an assortment of excellent lenses.

Sony RX2? Next year perhaps...

Right now the RX1 misses the mark because it's a fixed lens camera.
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XeroJay
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Re: A couple of suggestions...
In reply to Skip M, Sep 16, 2012

I thing Bob's mistaken...unless they're making a silver plastic version a la the original Rebel!

Skip M wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Skip M wrote:

Abraxx wrote:

Thats just crappy trolling.
The D600 is in fact not better than the 5D3 in most of her specs.

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Suggestion 1- Learn how to have a civil conversation. If you had any sense at all, you'd know that I, of all people, am not a troll.

Suggestion 2- Learn how to read. I never said, nor did I imply that the D600 is better than the 5D3 in most of "her" specs. I said it was the equal in many ways of the 5D3. I said that it's superior to the 5D2 in many ways, which if you read the specs, you'd know that it is.

The real difference is not the actuality of the specs but the perception of them. Here the 5DIII has a clear advantage, because it is perceived as being specced nearly as the 1DX - this is of course a false impression, it is half as fast and has a plastic chassis - but what matters is not what is, its what the buyer thinks is, and the D600 is at a clear disadvantage - it is specced below the D4, and therefore perceived as not as good. In practice I would guess the main deficits against the 5DIII make very little difference in the type of photography either camera will be used for.

Bob, could you give me a citation for the idea that the 5D3 has a plastic chassis? Every reference I can find for the construction of the camera says it has a magnesium alloy chassis.
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bobn2
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Re: A couple of suggestions...
In reply to Skip M, Sep 16, 2012

Skip M wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Skip M wrote:

Abraxx wrote:

Thats just crappy trolling.
The D600 is in fact not better than the 5D3 in most of her specs.

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Suggestion 1- Learn how to have a civil conversation. If you had any sense at all, you'd know that I, of all people, am not a troll.

Suggestion 2- Learn how to read. I never said, nor did I imply that the D600 is better than the 5D3 in most of "her" specs. I said it was the equal in many ways of the 5D3. I said that it's superior to the 5D2 in many ways, which if you read the specs, you'd know that it is.

The real difference is not the actuality of the specs but the perception of them. Here the 5DIII has a clear advantage, because it is perceived as being specced nearly as the 1DX - this is of course a false impression, it is half as fast and has a plastic chassis - but what matters is not what is, its what the buyer thinks is, and the D600 is at a clear disadvantage - it is specced below the D4, and therefore perceived as not as good. In practice I would guess the main deficits against the 5DIII make very little difference in the type of photography either camera will be used for.

Bob, could you give me a citation for the idea that the 5D3 has a plastic chassis? Every reference I can find for the construction of the camera says it has a magnesium alloy chassis.

No, they say it has a magnesium alloy shell , not chassis. The information comes from the LensRentals teardown.
http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/04/5d-iii-strip-tease
Particularly when it gets to this image

Here the magnesium shell has been removed but the camera is still in one piece - hence the magnesium is just a shell, not the structural chassis. Note also the the lens mount is still attached at this point. The Canon publicity photos show it attached to the magnesium shell, which really is a bit dishonest, the shell comes off and the lens mount doesn't come with it.

In any case, from what I know about how different materials present that chassis looks plastic to me - it's self coloured black and it has the very sharp moulded detail you don't get on a painted cast (or thixomoulded) unit, you can also see sprue marks if you look closely. Anyway, I emailed Roger Cicala and asked him if he could tell me what was the material for this chassis - he had a look and told me it was plastic.

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Bob

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bobn2
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Re: A couple of suggestions...
In reply to XeroJay, Sep 16, 2012

XeroJay wrote:

I thing Bob's mistaken...unless they're making a silver plastic version a la the original Rebel!

I'm not mistaken, what you are showing there are pictures of the shell, not the chassis.

Skip M wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Skip M wrote:

Abraxx wrote:

Thats just crappy trolling.
The D600 is in fact not better than the 5D3 in most of her specs.

-- hide signature --

'Photographers are the eyes of the world'
Focus on Landscape/Nature, Architecture, Technology, Wildlife, Street

Suggestion 1- Learn how to have a civil conversation. If you had any sense at all, you'd know that I, of all people, am not a troll.

Suggestion 2- Learn how to read. I never said, nor did I imply that the D600 is better than the 5D3 in most of "her" specs. I said it was the equal in many ways of the 5D3. I said that it's superior to the 5D2 in many ways, which if you read the specs, you'd know that it is.

The real difference is not the actuality of the specs but the perception of them. Here the 5DIII has a clear advantage, because it is perceived as being specced nearly as the 1DX - this is of course a false impression, it is half as fast and has a plastic chassis - but what matters is not what is, its what the buyer thinks is, and the D600 is at a clear disadvantage - it is specced below the D4, and therefore perceived as not as good. In practice I would guess the main deficits against the 5DIII make very little difference in the type of photography either camera will be used for.

Bob, could you give me a citation for the idea that the 5D3 has a plastic chassis? Every reference I can find for the construction of the camera says it has a magnesium alloy chassis. Canon's publicity is a bit dishonest showing the lens mount attached to that, it actually attaches to the plastic mirror box assembly which is what locates the lens mount in relation to the sensor.

You can see the image from the LensRentals teardown I gave in my reply to Skip, here is a similar teardown for a 1DIV

You can see in this case, the chassis (the bit that holds the camera together) is metal.
7D is also plastic. Only the 1D's are metal.

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Bob

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papparazzi
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Re: I love my 5d3, but...
In reply to AdamScot, Sep 16, 2012

AdamScot wrote:

The D7000 is well put together - a bit less metal in the body than the 5D2 and 7D, but more comprehensive sealing than either of them, so each has its pros and cons regarding build quality - no simple 'consumer/professional' divide.

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Adam

That simply is a lie...the 7D is built like a tank, watch DigitalreV video of him trying to destroy a 7D....you will be surprised.
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bobn2
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Re: I love my 5d3, but...
In reply to papparazzi, Sep 16, 2012

papparazzi wrote:

AdamScot wrote:

The D7000 is well put together - a bit less metal in the body than the 5D2 and 7D, but more comprehensive sealing than either of them, so each has its pros and cons regarding build quality - no simple 'consumer/professional' divide.

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Adam

That simply is a lie...the 7D is built like a tank, watch DigitalreV video of him trying to destroy a 7D....you will be surprised.

He also failed to destroy a D90. 7D might be 'built like a tank', but it's actually built the same way as the D7000 and D600, plastic chassis metal outer panels. It's just got a few more metal panels.
You can see what the 7D looks like inside here

Not a whole load different from the D7000

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papparazzi
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Re: I love my 5d3, but...
In reply to bobn2, Sep 16, 2012

bobn2 wrote:

papparazzi wrote:

AdamScot wrote:

The D7000 is well put together - a bit less metal in the body than the 5D2 and 7D, but more comprehensive sealing than either of them, so each has its pros and cons regarding build quality - no simple 'consumer/professional' divide.

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Adam

That simply is a lie...the 7D is built like a tank, watch DigitalreV video of him trying to destroy a 7D....you will be surprised.

He also failed to destroy a D90. 7D might be 'built like a tank', but it's actually built the same way as the D7000 and D600, plastic chassis metal outer panels. It's just got a few more metal panels.
You can see what the 7D looks like inside here

Not a whole load different from the D7000

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Bob

Wrong again, all canon from the bottom are built around a stainless chassis, all of them...not plastic
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bobn2
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Re: I love my 5d3, but...
In reply to papparazzi, Sep 16, 2012

papparazzi wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

papparazzi wrote:

AdamScot wrote:

The D7000 is well put together - a bit less metal in the body than the 5D2 and 7D, but more comprehensive sealing than either of them, so each has its pros and cons regarding build quality - no simple 'consumer/professional' divide.

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Adam

That simply is a lie...the 7D is built like a tank, watch DigitalreV video of him trying to destroy a 7D....you will be surprised.

He also failed to destroy a D90. 7D might be 'built like a tank', but it's actually built the same way as the D7000 and D600, plastic chassis metal outer panels. It's just got a few more metal panels.
You can see what the 7D looks like inside here

Not a whole load different from the D7000

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Bob

Wrong again, all canon from the bottom are built around a stainless chassis, all of them...not plastic

Canon marketing fooled you.
Here's the 5DIII again

You can see the 'stainless chassis' - it is that metal bracket at the bottom. The lens mount's still screwed into the plastic bits (maybe some metal inserts) but the chassis is plastic, unlike the 1D series where it is metal.

If you look hard you can see a similar metal bracket in the D7000 (it runs in a slot through the plastic moulding)
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RedFox88
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Re: FF mirrorless
In reply to Skip M, Sep 17, 2012

Skip M wrote:

Press Correspondent wrote:

chironNYC wrote:

the only thing that might get me personally away from my investment in Canon at the DSLR/lens level would be a FF NEX with an assortment of excellent lenses.

Sony RX2? Next year perhaps...

Right now the RX1 misses the mark because it's a fixed lens camera.

Right, not even a fix zoom lens!

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sean lancaster
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Re: FF mirrorless
In reply to RedFox88, Sep 17, 2012

RedFox88 wrote:

Skip M wrote:

Press Correspondent wrote:

chironNYC wrote:

the only thing that might get me personally away from my investment in Canon at the DSLR/lens level would be a FF NEX with an assortment of excellent lenses.

Sony RX2? Next year perhaps...

Right now the RX1 misses the mark because it's a fixed lens camera.

Right, not even a fix zoom lens!

It may miss the mark for most photographers, but I look through my last 6 months of shooting since I bought a Zeiss 24/1.8 for my NEX-5N (APS-C) and well over 90% are with this lens (i.e., FF focal length of 35mm-ish). So I could keep my 5N for the few shots I shoot at other focal lengths (e.g., fisheye, 55-210) and sell my Zeiss 24 and buy the RX1 for the vast majority of the photos I take. I probably won't when the Nikon D600 is coming it at $700 cheaper to also go full frame, but the RX1 is intriguing for my kind of shooting.

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Redteg94
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Re: Actually...
In reply to AllOtherNamesTaken, Sep 17, 2012

AllOtherNamesTaken wrote:

You will be able to map that AF-L/AE-L button to do AF-on just like you could even with the super old D80.

As for FPS, the D800 will shoot at 5.9 FPS at 25MP, which is still more resolution than any other FF camera available currently. I realize that is 1 FPS slower than your D300S, but for most I do not expect that to be a deal breaker. The D600 at 5.5 FPS, yes, not as fast, but 6fps is fast enough for most (same as D300 w/o grip).

At 25MP it isn't FF though is it? It's APS-H (roughly). So, no dice.

I agree a D4 sensor in a D800 body with 8FPS would be interesting, but then who would buy a D4? I'm not sure Nikon will pull the same move they did with the D700/D3, I think it cost them a lot of D3 sales.

Mark

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chironNYC
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metal and plastic
In reply to XeroJay, Sep 17, 2012

In any case, apart from the fact that the 5d3 does have a metal chassis, plastic is a very strong material and can be made with specific characteristics tha make it better than metal for various purposes. Last I check, they made bulletproof vests out of plastic.

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Skip M
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Re: I love my 5d3, but...
In reply to Abraxx, Sep 17, 2012

Abraxx wrote:

You are funny.
Civilized?! This forum and this thread like several others is full of trolling.
Every few weeks it gets spammed.

I rather think this forum needs some Mods. To remind you and others of forum rules.

Oh, did you use the D600 already?...

signing off here

Might as well sign off, you certainly haven't contributed anything useful to this conversation!

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Press Correspondent
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Re: FF mirrorless
In reply to Skip M, Sep 17, 2012

Skip M wrote:

Press Correspondent wrote:

chironNYC wrote:

the only thing that might get me personally away from my investment in Canon at the DSLR/lens level would be a FF NEX with an assortment of excellent lenses.

Sony RX2? Next year perhaps...

Right now the RX1 misses the mark because it's a fixed lens camera.

This is why I said RX2

Actually, there is a lot of support for the fixed lens of this angle. Apparently it is a long tradition since the film days. I would definitely use RX1 if I get it for Christmas from Santa, but I'm not gonna pay three grand for it just yet.

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bobn2
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Re: metal and plastic
In reply to chironNYC, Sep 17, 2012

chironNYC wrote:

In any case, apart from the fact that the 5d3 does have a metal chassis,

clearly it doesn't. It has a plastic chassis with a metal bracket. The !D has a metal chassis. Where the 1D is metal, the 5DIII is plastic.

plastic is a very strong material and can be made with specific characteristics tha make it better than metal for various purposes. Last I check, they made bulletproof vests out of plastic.

agreed, so why do you need to insist that the 5DIII's plastic chassis is metal.
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JFScheck
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Re: I love my 5d3, but...
In reply to chironNYC, Sep 17, 2012

I actually just purchased a NEX-7 for my new mini SLR to replace my first generation NEX-5 that worked so well in that roll.

I can only imagine the next NEX-7 will be even better - if the glass were nicer this might be an option for others too ponder...

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chironNYC
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Re: I love my 5d3, but...oh you NEX
In reply to JFScheck, Sep 18, 2012

I'm with you on this. I love my NEX-7. If there were a full frame NEX and some really good Zeiss and Sony lenses, plus all that legacy glass, it would be a super-appealing camera, impossible to resist.

I have to think Sony is developing this. Certainly someone is going to introduce a MILC full frame with glass to match sometime soon. I hope it is a NEX. Canon, with their conservative product philosophy, will be slow to the FF mirrorless party.

JFScheck wrote:

I actually just purchased a NEX-7 for my new mini SLR to replace my first generation NEX-5 that worked so well in that roll.

I can only imagine the next NEX-7 will be even better - if the glass were nicer this might be an option for others too ponder...

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