Sony...APS-C RX10 please...

Started Sep 10, 2012 | Discussions
crashpc
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Re: Sony...APS-C RX10 please...
In reply to EinsteinsGhost, Sep 11, 2012

EinsteinsGhost wrote:
Thats what you get for adding another zero.

crashpc wrote:

Nope, I´m looking in between. HX sensors and results are still "not enaugh"
--
Why does he do it?

Well, You don´t want me to ask for RX500, don´t you?

-- hide signature --

Why does he do it?

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: Sony...APS-C RX10 please...
In reply to crashpc, Sep 11, 2012

crashpc wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:
Well, You don´t want me to ask for RX500, don´t you?

It depends on how Sony wants to label the future generations of this camera. Next may be, RX200 and if that is the case, then perhaps in five years?

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: Sony...APS-C RX10 please...
In reply to Catalin Stavaru, Sep 11, 2012

Catalin Stavaru wrote:

RX10 would ruin the NEX line, especially if it had a 2.5-3x zoom lens which retracts into the body. But I do hope they make it...when the technology will permit to make a pocketable APS-C zoom camera.

I don’t see why it would ruin NEX. The NEX-series will offer interchangeability, use of legacy lenses, and sharing of lenses with Sony A-series. People have whined and complained about NEX not benefitting from its small and light body due to lens, an issue that Sony can address via RX10 and a fixed, pancake zoom lens. In other words, think of NEX-6/7 with a reach that goes a bit farther than kit zoom in a smaller package. That is exactly the idea RX100 brings, against NEX-F3 and even NEX-5N today.

And for Sony, RX10 could even use an MFT sensor, instead of going APS-C. Not having to develop a mount leaves the options wide open. And that may be Sony’s idea with RX-series. Even RX1 is a good example. Even though the sensor is full frame and likely shared with A99, Sony wasn’t limited by lens choices on either A-mount or E-mount. Using A-mount would make RX1 a moot point as it will be pretty much the same size as A99. Using E-mount (if it could be done) would make the body small, but FF lens won’t be small enough (a challenge Sony faces with NEX on APS-C platform). With “forget mount”, it simply has to match the lens to the sensor, or vice versa, and build a small camera around it.
So, here is the idea (I think) Sony is operating on:

DSLR form factor and competition: A-series (SLT)
Compact/light body with interchangeability: NEX-series
Compact/light body with large sensor: RX-series

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tbcass
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They already make such a camera
In reply to Cipher, Sep 11, 2012

It's called a NEX. Just buy the lens of your choice and never take it off. Personally I just can't see the sense in a fixed lens large sensor camera.
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Jan Kritzinger
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Re: They already make such a camera
In reply to tbcass, Sep 12, 2012

SIZE you numpty, SIZE.

They can make an RX10 with a fixed focal length lens and an APS sensor that is barely larger than an RX100.

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Jan Kritzinger
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Re: Sony...APS-C RX10 please...
In reply to Jogger, Sep 12, 2012

With a fixed lens they can make it 1/3 of the size of the combo you suggest, because they wouldn't need a retrofocal design with a fixed lens.

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: They already make such a camera
In reply to Jan Kritzinger, Sep 12, 2012

IMO, in a price class where people might be talking about their 28-800mm zoom cameras, I don't think it will be a good idea to offer a fixed prime lens RX10 w/APS-C, unless it is an exceptionally fast lens (for example, 24mm f/1.4, which would match the FOV and DOF of RX1's 35mm f/2), in which case, it won't be cheap. I think a practical zoom but fixed lens of 24-90mm would be good, as long as it is reasonably fast. And it wouldn't need to be APS-C, it could be MFT.

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jonrobertp
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Re: They already make such a camera
In reply to EinsteinsGhost, Sep 12, 2012

Use the RX100 sensor, make a zoom 28-200, F2 to F4...like Nikon's unit, and smaller than the N, and we have a sports cam !!

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: They already make such a camera
In reply to jonrobertp, Sep 12, 2012

jonrobertp wrote:

Use the RX100 sensor, make a zoom 28-200, F2 to F4...like Nikon's unit, and smaller than the N, and we have a sports cam !!
--

Sony made one such camera, albeit with an even faster lens (28-200mm f/2-2.8) and 2/3" sensor. And nine years later, I still use it:

If quality fast zoom lenses could be made in small sizes, and especially with larger sensors, we would see a substantial size/weight reduction in premium lenses.

BUT, with such lens, RX10 would hold no advantage over NEX. Why not just get NEX instead?

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jonrobertp
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Re: They already make such a camera
In reply to EinsteinsGhost, Sep 12, 2012

nex ? maybe. but the inventors have to have some new stuff to invent...somethings we haven't seen yet...:)

more will come... who knows what it'l be ? better than the older ones, or it won't sell.

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quezra
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Re: They already make such a camera
In reply to EinsteinsGhost, Sep 14, 2012

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

And it wouldn't need to be APS-C, it could be MFT.

Yep, I really think MFT could be where Sony goes with any RX10.

First, it devalues the MFT sensor to compact status - just like what the RX100 does to Nikon 1. That's exactly what they've done where they don't have significant stakes in those market segments (with 1" and FF).

Second, smaller sensor = more flexibility with the lens, which helps open wider options - the mainstream mass market does not understand fixed focal lens photography and prefers flexibility at the cost of IQ.

Third, it is easily differentiable from the NEX line and no threat to it. This means it won't have the same kind of internal fight within Sony Corp and makes it more likely to happen.

Fourth, they already make the OMD sensor so they have this technology, but strangely none of their cameras use it. It's begging to be picked up in a native line.

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Somonica
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Re: Sony...APS-C RX10 please...
In reply to Cipher, Sep 14, 2012

mmmm... APS-C RX10?

will it be competitive against its own NEX-6 with the kit pancake zoom?

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Jan Kritzinger
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Re: Sony...APS-C RX10 please...
In reply to Somonica, Sep 14, 2012

No, it will be much, much more compact. They should be able to make it almost RX100 size. So you trade zoom for physical size.

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RX100
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Re: Sony...APS-C RX10 please...
In reply to Jan Kritzinger, Sep 14, 2012

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Jan Kritzinger
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Re: Sony...APS-C RX10 please...
In reply to RX100, Sep 14, 2012

Oh dear go no, please no.
a) The RX100 already has a zoom, and is more compact than the Nex + power zoom.
b) That horrid thing is the same size as nex + power zoom anyway.

c) a fixed focal length, 35mm equivalent, APS RX10 could be more compact than either Nex + whatever or the RX1.

Taking the above into account, RX10 with fixed lens, smaller than Nex, makes sense.
RX10 with zoom makes absolutely zero sense.

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malcolm82
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Re: Sony...APS-C RX10 please...
In reply to Jan Kritzinger, Sep 15, 2012

Jan Kritzinger wrote:

c) a fixed focal length, 35mm equivalent, APS RX10 could be more compact than either Nex + whatever or the RX1.

A 23mm f/2.4 with 24x16mm sensor could fit in the Canon S100 body.

I would personally prefer a 23mm f/1.8 in a camera the size of the RX100 but with a grip and possibly a swivel screen and a viewfinder.

I absolutely agree that the zoom is the first thing that has to go as necessary compromise for a compact camera and not the image quality.

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DPReview007
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Re: Sony...APS-C RX10 please...
In reply to Cipher, May 9, 2013

yes please. and make it pocketable, like the Nikon Coolpix A and the Ricoh GR. If the RX10 comes out with an f1.8 lens, i'll buy it right away.

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elliottnewcomb
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Re: Sony...APS-C RX10 please...
In reply to Cipher, May 10, 2013

Many hope/wish you are right.

You may not know about the old APS-C R1, as what you are describing is the long awaited R2, which never came.

R1 was $1000. in 2005. That is $1,200. in today's dollars, not bad at all compared to RX1 $2,800. + how much $______? for EVF

http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2005/9/8/sonydscr1

Someone who knows the physics of sensor/lens relationships concluded in an earlier thread that rx100 with APS-C would not be pocketable if it had some zoom, which I presume you would want, as I would.

I would have bought a modern R2 without hesitation, but, now that I am spoiled by pant pocketable rx100, and still have my R1, I would/will wait a few years more

Elliott

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