NEW X10 replacement can shoot round corners

Started Sep 8, 2012 | Discussions
mbb101
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Re: NEW X10 replacement can shoot round corners
In reply to PAUL TILL, Sep 8, 2012

Hi Paul

Of course I will be pursuing this with Fuji UK but I only opened the package last night so they can't be contacted until Monday.

With regard to the other question the answer is reasonably straightforward. There is no contract between me and Citilink however they owe me a duty of care to transport my goods with reasonable care. The question which usually arises (and is the important issue here) is whether that duty has been breached. Clearly the damage to the cam is so severe that one would expect that a carrier exercising reasonable care would not allow such damage to occur (this is complicated by issues as to whether the damage is reasonably foreseeable, but should not play a part here.)

So it seems to me that the only scenarios are that the damage occurred prior to despatch; the damage occurred during despatch or the damage occurred after delivery. This is solely a question of evidence and whilst a signature is evidence that goods were undamaged it is not determinative, a court will have to look at all the evidence taken together. In this case the package was unopened and sitting on a shelf at home waiting for me to return I opened the package and then took the pictures you see. This was done in front of two other people and therefore the evidence will be that once signed for the parcel sat on a shelf and was not subject to mishandling, this is pretty good quality evidence. All the signature does is give Citilink the possibility of challenging that person saying that they thought the parcel was undamaged but that will not get them far because the signatory will simply say that the parcel was signed for unopened and that will be supported by the other evidence.

Whilst the burden of proving that the damage was caused by Citilink rests with me once it has been established that the damage could not have been caused post delivery then the burden passes to Citilink for them to prove that they did not cause the damage (this is why the severity of damage is so important). This is known as res ipsa loquitor (the thing speaks for itself).

I think the signature is unlikely, on the balance of probabilities, of being sufficient for Citilink to mount a defence. Their only other recourse might be to join Fuji as a party and allege that they were responsible for the damage prior to despatch.

If for instance the damage had been relatively trivial such as a scratch to the paintwork then I would be facing an uphill struggle. However it is unlikely that there will be any litigation I expect this one to settle.

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PAUL TILL
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Re: NEW X10 replacement can shoot round corners
In reply to mbb101, Sep 8, 2012

I understand what you are saying but as an example: Your son could have signed for it and put it on the floor in the garage, you come home later that evening, reverse into the garage and squash the camera.

Technically you should always check a package before signing for it. Maybe someone else can learn from your mishap.

Hope you get it sorted Monday morning.

Paul.

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mbb101
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Re: NEW X10 replacement can shoot round corners
In reply to PAUL TILL, Sep 8, 2012

I'm not sure why signatories need check the package - there is no contractual obligation between them and the carrier and arguably if the carrier wants a warranty from the signatory then they should ask them to unpack and check the goods. 99% of packages are signed for unchecked. Agreed in an ideal world the contents should always be checked or not signed for but failing that as I said the question is one of evidence.

This idea that you are stuffed if you've signed for goods unchecked is something that is in the interests of the carriers to promulgate as their first line of defence when someone makes a complaint because 9 times out 10 people accept it and go away and bear the loss. However the more they are challenged then the more likely it is that they will take complaints seriously. It will be interesting whether Citilink take this complaint seriously or try to fob me off. I should know Monday or Tuesday.

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PAUL TILL
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Re: NEW X10 replacement can shoot round corners
In reply to mbb101, Sep 8, 2012

mbb101 wrote:

I'm not sure why signatories need check the package - there is no contractual obligation between them and the carrier and arguably if the carrier wants a warranty from the signatory then they should ask them to unpack and check the goods. 99% of packages are signed for unchecked.

You could be signing for a box with a house brick in it, of course you need to check the contents. Back when I was a courier we used to get a signature as proof that the recipient had received the goods and that they were in good condition.

Why bother with signatures if as you say 99% of people don't bother checking the contents? All that signature means then is that you accepted something from them. Back when I was a courier some people used to write unchecked under their signature, you can still do this on the electronic devices they use now.

Paul.

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mbb101
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Re: NEW X10 replacement can shoot round corners
In reply to PAUL TILL, Sep 8, 2012

Hi Paul

Then there are the carriers that leave stuff with the next door neighbour. You wouldn't want to be looking through your neighbour's stuff just so you can sign for and I'm sure they would not want to know that their neighbours have been mooching through their stuff.

Anyway I'll just have to make do with my X100 for now. Life is hard. Maybe I should go and take a few therapeutic pics.

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PAUL TILL
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Re: NEW X10 replacement can shoot round corners
In reply to mbb101, Sep 8, 2012

mbb101 wrote:

Hi Paul

Then there are the carriers that leave stuff with the next door neighbour. You wouldn't want to be looking through your neighbour's stuff just so you can sign for and I'm sure they would not want to know that their neighbours have been mooching through their stuff.

That's why CityLink don't/won't do that, if you're not in to sign for it they leave a card.

Anyway I'll just have to make do with my X100 for now. Life is hard. Maybe I should go and take a few therapeutic pics.

Good idea, I've never met a Solicitor who's life is hard, you probably keep the X100 in the glove box of your Aston Martin.

Paul.

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mbb101
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Re: NEW X10 replacement can shoot round corners
In reply to PAUL TILL, Sep 8, 2012

Ho hum I wish, too poor to afford an X Pro 1

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Conrad Birdie
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Re: NEW X10 replacement can shoot round corners
In reply to mbb101, Sep 8, 2012

Looks to me like someone is buying you a new camera. That is ridiculous.
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Wellington100
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Re: NEW X10 replacement can shoot round corners
In reply to mbb101, Sep 8, 2012

Its a sad indictment of the world that we live in but its almost worth doing law to be in a position to protect oneself from all the shiite that comes ones way these days.

As you say, when a parcel arrives, someone else often signs for it. The couriers are always in a hurry so no way will they hang about while it gets opened, if they did that all the time, they could not get through their day.

That camera has been seriously crushed, surely in transit. Chances are both the courier and Fuji are insured against that sort of mishap so hopefully they will not fuss and further delay your photography but simply supply you with a new camera.

This is all part of the hazard of buying an X10 or XS1 in the first place, its time Fuji changed the model numbers and pulled the remaining old stock out of the channels.

mbb101 wrote:

Ho hum I wish, too poor to afford an X Pro 1

-- hide signature --

S100fs, S6500, S5, F300, D40, EX1, EPM1

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mbb101
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Re: NEW X10 replacement can shoot round corners
In reply to Wellington100, Sep 8, 2012

Yes and any replacement will need to be tested for orbs all over again. I'm not sure whether I will want a replacement X10 or not. The X100 is so good that I prefer to use that when I can. IQ is so much better.

The X10 is very useful on macro especially when used at the telephoto end and I have taken some very good pics with it but I got the X100 because of the lack of sharpness on foliage in landscapes and the need to sharpen pp on almost all pics with the X10. So not sure what I will do to sort this out. Or what cam I should get.

Wellington100 wrote:

Its a sad indictment of the world that we live in but its almost worth doing law to be in a position to protect oneself from all the shiite that comes ones way these days.

As you say, when a parcel arrives, someone else often signs for it. The couriers are always in a hurry so no way will they hang about while it gets opened, if they did that all the time, they could not get through their day.

That camera has been seriously crushed, surely in transit. Chances are both the courier and Fuji are insured against that sort of mishap so hopefully they will not fuss and further delay your photography but simply supply you with a new camera.

This is all part of the hazard of buying an X10 or XS1 in the first place, its time Fuji changed the model numbers and pulled the remaining old stock out of the channels.

mbb101 wrote:

Ho hum I wish, too poor to afford an X Pro 1

-- hide signature --

S100fs, S6500, S5, F300, D40, EX1, EPM1

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PAUL TILL
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Re: NEW X10 replacement can shoot round corners
In reply to mbb101, Sep 8, 2012

mbb101 wrote:

Yes and any replacement will need to be tested for orbs all over again. I'm not sure whether I will want a replacement X10 or not.

You could always make out it got damaged in the post and ask for a refund.

Paul.

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Wellington100
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Re: NEW X10 replacement can shoot round corners
In reply to mbb101, Sep 8, 2012

mbb101 wrote:

Yes and any replacement will need to be tested for orbs all over again. I'm not sure whether I will want a replacement X10 or not. The X100 is so good that I prefer to use that when I can. IQ is so much better.

The X10 is very useful on macro especially when used at the telephoto end and I have taken some very good pics with it but I got the X100 because of the lack of sharpness on foliage in landscapes and the need to sharpen pp on almost all pics with the X10. So not sure what I will do to sort this out. Or what cam I should get.

I just read this very interesting post about the relative merits of the LX7 and the RX100.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1033&message=42437463
The X10 is not the only game in town anymore.

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S100fs, S6500, S5, F300, D40, EX1, EPM1

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John Carson
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Re: NEW X10 replacement can shoot round corners
In reply to PAUL TILL, Sep 9, 2012

PAUL TILL wrote:

mbb101 wrote:

I'm not sure why signatories need check the package - there is no contractual obligation between them and the carrier and arguably if the carrier wants a warranty from the signatory then they should ask them to unpack and check the goods. 99% of packages are signed for unchecked.

You could be signing for a box with a house brick in it, of course you need to check the contents. Back when I was a courier we used to get a signature as proof that the recipient had received the goods and that they were in good condition.

Why bother with signatures if as you say 99% of people don't bother checking the contents? All that signature means then is that you accepted something from them. Back when I was a courier some people used to write unchecked under their signature, you can still do this on the electronic devices they use now.

In my (Australian) experience, couriers will barely wait for you to open the door. It would be unthinkable for them to wait around while you check the item. They have a delivery run to get through and don't want to waste a moment.

The signature is a check against things not being delivered at all, not against damage. Damage is generally rare since things are usually packed well enough so it isn't an issue.

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john carson

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mbb101
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Unbent v Bent X10
In reply to John Carson, Sep 21, 2012

Fuji UK have replaced my bent X10 with a brand new one (note the original packaging) there were no quibbles and they replaced it in an expeditious and efficient manner

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archrich
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Re: Unbent v Bent X10
In reply to mbb101, Sep 22, 2012

I'm glad it worked out for you. Its good that Fuji stepped up and did the right thing. Enjoy your new camera.

Archie

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