Just posted: Our Canon EOS 650D/T4i review

Started Aug 20, 2012 | Discussions
Amadou Diallo
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Just posted: Our Canon EOS 650D/T4i review
Aug 20, 2012

We've just published our EOS 650D review at http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-650d-rebel-t4i . Enjoy.
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Amadou Diallo
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Canon EOS 650D (EOS Rebel T4i / EOS Kiss X6i)
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Edward In Toronto
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Looks good, great camera (nt)
In reply to Amadou Diallo, Aug 20, 2012
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rhlpetrus
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Re: Just posted: Our Canon EOS 650D/T4i review
In reply to Amadou Diallo, Aug 20, 2012

Is it true that the new M ML will use the same AF as this camera has for LV? It doesn't look that good from your report. I also saw some video you posted, pretty slow IMO, at least compared to the V1 my wife uses, which is lightning fast in good light.
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Amadou Diallo
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Re: Just posted: Our Canon EOS 650D/T4i review
In reply to rhlpetrus, Aug 20, 2012

Live view AF is disappointingly slow. You do still have the option of Quick Mode (ie phase detect AF) but of course the mirror flips down, blocking your view.

The EOS M is indeed based largely on the 650D, so that doesn't bode too well for AF at this point.
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MisterBG
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Canon EOS 650D/T4i review - Cons
In reply to Amadou Diallo, Aug 20, 2012
  • Slow 'hybrid AF' performance in live view and video modes (compared to mirrorless competition)

  • Slightly higher noise levels than its peers

  • Default dynamic range lags a bit behind its peers

  • Using flash with Auto ISO enabled results in ISO 400 even in bright light conditions

  • Cannot configure common live view and movie mode options independently

  • AF illuminator integrated into flash (must have flash engaged to use it)

  • Shorter battery life than other DSLRs in its class

E for Effort, otherwise... F
Need to try harder Canon.
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Amadou Diallo
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Re: Canon EOS 650D/T4i review - Cons
In reply to MisterBG, Aug 20, 2012

That's actually a pretty short list of 'cons' by our standards ;-). And outside of LV AF, the other flaws can be worked around, to a large degree. Personally, I found it to be a pleasant camera to use.
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Gesture
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Re: Canon EOS 650D/T4i review - Cons
In reply to Amadou Diallo, Aug 20, 2012

Is this now Canon's entry-level DSLR?

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rhlpetrus
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Re: Canon EOS 650D/T4i review - Cons
In reply to Amadou Diallo, Aug 20, 2012

The JPEG DR looks poor by present day standards, even m43's cameras are already doing better, the D5100's and the Sonys have had much better DR for a long time now, Canon is not showing any improvements in IQ. Actually, you found the noise is worse on this 18MP camera than on the earlier ones.

I think you were a bit soft on Canon on this one ...

Amadou Diallo wrote:

That's actually a pretty short list of 'cons' by our standards ;-). And outside of LV AF, the other flaws can be worked around, to a large degree. Personally, I found it to be a pleasant camera to use.
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RoyGBiv
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Hmm...the AF test vids don't appear to test the PDAF hybrid scenario...
In reply to Amadou Diallo, Aug 20, 2012

Amadou Diallo wrote:

We've just published our EOS 650D review at http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-650d-rebel-t4i . Enjoy.
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Amadou Diallo
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Clearly, Canon's CDAF implementation performs slower than its mirrorless peers.

I was curious about Canon's hybrid pdaf/cdaf implementation. But the existing demo doesn't appear to test it. The focusing targets appear to be placed outside of the PDAF area in these views.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG6yhI5I8Qc&feature=player_embedded

The PDAF area being the area noted in green:

Too bad, I was curious, though, if its implementation of PDAF as a "direction chooser" had any demonstrable benefits. These tests are more like a test of its CDAF capabilities by itself.

Perhaps a later set of tests on the EOS-M.

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MichaelKJ
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Re: Entry level or mid-range?
In reply to Amadou Diallo, Aug 20, 2012

On the Conclusion page you have this camera in the Mid-Range category. Is this correct?
I know that many cameras are difficult to categorize.

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AmateurSnaps
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Re: Hmm...the AF test vids don't appear to test the PDAF hybrid scenario...
In reply to RoyGBiv, Aug 20, 2012

I think I am in the minority as I just want a camera that can take great stills, which is sadly the one area canon didn't improve.

Having said that if this camera was cheaper I would say its mark is about right.

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Albert Silver
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Re: Just posted: Our Canon EOS 650D/T4i review
In reply to Amadou Diallo, Aug 20, 2012

Amadou Diallo wrote:

We've just published our EOS 650D review at http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-650d-rebel-t4i . Enjoy.
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Amadou Diallo
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Thanks, and looks excellent. It is on the top of my to-buy list as first DSLR, and nothing you wrote changed this. One question though: you wrote they built a new sensor, right? Last week, to try and understand the RAW dynamic range charts published by Tech Radar ( http://www.techradar.com/reviews/cameras-and-camcorders/cameras/digital-slrs-hybrids/canon-650d-1083870/review/page:5#articleContent ) I called up Canon with a couple of questions:

1) Is the sensor in the new 650D the same as the 600D or is it new?

Answer: it is the same.

I asked how certain this was, and the tech said it was 100% certain.

2) If the sensor is the same, then why does Tech Radar report different RAW results compared to the 600D? I.e. improved.

Answer: the software is updated and influences the image, even at the RAW level.

Again I asked how certain this was, and whether this was official. Again the answer was: 100% certain and official.

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Albert Silver
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Re: Hmm...the AF test vids don't appear to test the PDAF hybrid scenario...
In reply to AmateurSnaps, Aug 20, 2012

AmateurSnaps wrote:

I think I am in the minority as I just want a camera that can take great stills, which is sadly the one area canon didn't improve.

An improved autofocus is certainly a step up for better stills, no? The overall comments were that the touchscreen was so well done that it could be combined with the manual tools for improved efficiency, which again means better stills (unless you are only doing slow tripod landscapes).

Having said that if this camera was cheaper I would say its mark is about right.

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DSHAPK
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Re: Just posted: Our Canon EOS 650D/T4i review
In reply to Albert Silver, Aug 21, 2012

While I can appreciate the time and effort that went into this very thorough review, I've spent a fair amount of time shooting dimly lit rooms in my house with my t2i and t4i.

My amateur hack .02 in looking at 100% crops in dpp, the t4i shows better iq, better wb, and lower noise in raw up to 6400 than the t2i. In fact an associate shared a series of comparison shots, indoors and out, between the 1d4 and t4i. To say the results were interesting to say the least.

In addition, liveview focus with my 50 1.4 was pretty good on the t4i considering the lens.

Canon gets a solid A with this camera.

Why dpreview had the results they did is anybody's but they do a more than respectable job. It's like reading an automotive review in motor trend and car and driver of the same car and reporting very different test results.

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seri_art
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Re: Just posted: Our Canon EOS 650D/T4i review
In reply to DSHAPK, Aug 21, 2012

We may (or may not) be seeing sample-to-sample variation. In the RAW tests in this dpreview review, to my eyes the T2I had noticeably better image quality than the T4i at all higher ISO settings starting at ISO 1600.

What that and your experience below mean to me is that there is essentially no improvement in IQ for still photos from the T2i (which I had for a month) to the T4i. Which means I'm not spending the $ to upgrade from my XSi to get a very small increase in IQ that's only noticeable in prints larger than I print.

DSHAPK wrote:

My amateur hack .02 in looking at 100% crops in dpp, the t4i shows better iq, better wb, and lower noise in raw up to 6400 than the t2i. In fact an associate shared a series of comparison shots, indoors and out, between the 1d4 and t4i. To say the results were interesting to say the least.

Why dpreview had the results they did is anybody's but they do a more than respectable job. It's like reading an automotive review in motor trend and car and driver of the same car and reporting very different test results.

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hjulenissen
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Re: Just posted: Our Canon EOS 650D/T4i review
In reply to Amadou Diallo, Aug 21, 2012

I have a comment regarding dynamic range (quote below). If:
+HTP only double the ISO (+ some post-processing),
+The DR of Canon sensors is less than that of Sony/Nikon sensors at ISO100
+The DR of ISO200 is less than that of ISO100,

I cannot possible see how HTP can increase the DR to a level that is "at least equal to Sony and Nikon DSLRS"?

The Highlight Tone Priority option (Custom Function II.3) offers a method for capturing more information in the brightest parts of the scene. It does this by applying less amplification to the signal coming from the sensor, then compensating for it by using a different tone curve to ensure the correct brightness in the final image. Turn this on and the 650D captures an extra stop in the highlights, resulting in a dynamic range that is at least the equal of Sony and Nikon DSLRs.

Because it works by using a lower signal amplification, HTP cannot be employed at base ISO. The minimum value that can be used is ISO 200. When used at ISO 200, the effect is the same as underexposing an ISO 100 shot by one stop, then pulling up the midtones and shadows to compensate. The result is an image at a 'normal' exposure but that retains the extra highlights you've captured. This approach - common to many other manufacturers - comes at the potential cost of increased noise in shadow regions.

Amadou Diallo wrote:

We've just published our EOS 650D review at http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-650d-rebel-t4i . Enjoy.
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Amadou Diallo
dpreview.com

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MisterBG
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Re: Canon EOS 650D/T4i review - Cons
In reply to Amadou Diallo, Aug 21, 2012

Amadou Diallo wrote:

That's actually a pretty short list of 'cons' by our standards ;-). And outside of LV AF, the other flaws can be worked around, to a large degree. Personally, I found it to be a pleasant camera to use.

That may be a short list, but it includes two of the most important factors relating to image quality, viz. "higher noise levels than its peers" and "dynamic range lags a bit behind its peers". I don't see any way you can "work around" those problems. The noise performance in particular appears to be several steps behind the D5100.

So Canon is now introducing models which are behind the competition in image performance?

No matter how "pleasant to use" it may be, you cannot "work around" sub-par Image Quality.

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Martin Grecner
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Re: Canon EOS 650D/T4i review - Cons
In reply to MisterBG, Aug 21, 2012

MisterBG wrote:

So Canon is now introducing models which are behind the competition in image performance?

No matter how "pleasant to use" it may be, you cannot "work around" sub-par Image Quality.

Canon has even left out the movie digital zoom feature of many previous models, loosing a big advantage over Nikon in movie mode. It is really strange.

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AmateurSnaps
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Re: Hmm...the AF test vids don't appear to test the PDAF hybrid scenario...
In reply to Albert Silver, Aug 21, 2012

Albert Silver wrote:

AmateurSnaps wrote:

I think I am in the minority as I just want a camera that can take great stills, which is sadly the one area canon didn't improve.

An improved autofocus is certainly a step up for better stills, no? The overall comments were that the touchscreen was so well done that it could be combined with the manual tools for improved efficiency, which again means better stills (unless you are only doing slow tripod landscapes).

Having said that if this camera was cheaper I would say its mark is about right.

Sorry should have been more specific, I meant IQ, which has still seen no improvement for some years now. Also to be pedantic, no an improved AF isn't a big step up for stills

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Roger Nordin
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Re: Canon EOS 650D/T4i review - Cons
In reply to MisterBG, Aug 21, 2012

MisterBG wrote:

That may be a short list, but it includes two of the most important factors relating to image quality, viz. "higher noise levels than its peers" and "dynamic range lags a bit behind its peers". I don't see any way you can "work around" those problems.

To issue A we say: Use a lower slightly lower ISO setting (open the aperture more, get a faster lens, use a slower speed - just go figure it out).

To issue B we say: Carefully review the histogram and reshoot with an adjusted exposure if required. Shoot bracketed exposure, and if required merge the images. Go figure it out.

Yes, may not be practical in all situations, BUT my point is that to say, or imply that these are "impossible" or "fatal" problems, is to to make a larger issue out of it than what it really is. Cameras always have some limitations, yet great photos have been captured for over a century. You work with what you got. There's just too much focus on equipment, rather than photography skills and creativity these days... these slight limitations does not reduce the 650D to a useless pile of junk.

The 650D seems like a great all-around evolution camera, and I'd love to see the swivel screen and touchscreen UI stuff added to my 7D. I am sure users will love it. I remember how the 50D was trashed in these forums here at DPR for its brave step up in pixel density, yet I loved it and found it - for me - much better than the 40D it replaced in all aspects, and a worthy upgrade... funnily enough I even liked the noise characteristics from the 50D sensor over the 40D one, which just goes to show that some things are quite subjective I guess.

Now, it seems like the 650D may be getting a similar unjustified amount of bad feedback that the 50D got, just because people were expecting "more", or maybe just something "different" than what they perceived they got... that would be a shame. Let us hope for improved AF speed and a new generation of sensor IQ performance in an upcoming generation. In the meanwhile, I'm sure it's still a pretty nice camera.

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Roger

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