Frustrated with this Forum's Photographic Examples

Started Aug 18, 2012 | Discussions
InterestedParty
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Re: nonuniform
In reply to Biological_Viewfinder, Aug 19, 2012

Biological_Viewfinder wrote:

It's not neccessarily beautiful, but the point is that it's different and impressive. And also, it's so often copied that there are Photoshop Actions that try to replicate it. This is exactly why I won't share my work; because most everyone is a follower, and I don't need to feed the sheeple who will reduce my unique artistic expression by stealing my color and light for their own imagery.

It seems your purpose in pursuing art is self aggrandizement and in that case your position makes a bit of paranoid sense and is its own punishment. If you could shed that spiritual liability and embrace art as a shamanesque pursuit of truth you might find peace and your haters irrelevant. (I'm a hard core rationalist so my terms should not be taken as an endorsement of mysticism of any kind.)

As to beauty,yes, it may be art's best friend but art also has a vigorous life when they are apart as your link clearly shows.

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Paul B Jones
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Re: Frustrated with this Forum's Photographic Examples
In reply to Biological_Viewfinder, Aug 19, 2012

OP raises an interesting point, one I've thought about as well - what is the value of the example images people post in these forums to demonstrate the capabilities of particular equipment?

Setting aside the technical/graph captures (which are great if you can understand them) most posted images fall into two categories.

First, there are the mediocre photos that people like me (earnest amateurs) post that are not super helpful in demonstrating a particular point and maybe are even a bit embarrassing. But they don't cause any harm so it is possible to just ignore them or maybe offer some delicate suggestions for improvement.

Second, there are amazing photos posted by incredible photographers. These images are again not super helpful in proving the capabilities of particular gear because the reason they are great pictures is mostly because of the skill and experience of the photographer, not because of the equipment used.

So, with these limitations in mind I'll keep posting the occasional picture and looking with respect at the images others put up.

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larrywilson
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Re: Frustrated with this Forum's Photographic Examples
In reply to Paul B Jones, Aug 19, 2012

I agree with Paul.

Larry

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moving_comfort
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Re: Frustrated with this Forum's Photographic Examples
In reply to Paul B Jones, Aug 19, 2012

Paul B Jones wrote:

OP raises an interesting point, one I've thought about as well - what is the value of the example images people post in these forums to demonstrate the capabilities of particular equipment?

Setting aside the technical/graph captures (which are great if you can understand them) most posted images fall into two categories.

First, there are the mediocre photos that people like me (earnest amateurs) post that are not super helpful in demonstrating a particular point and maybe are even a bit embarrassing. But they don't cause any harm so it is possible to just ignore them or maybe offer some delicate suggestions for improvement.

Don't be so sure all the photos at that level hold no useful information. I've looked at a literal 'box opening' shot that happened to be taken with the Pentax DA 40mm Limited, and the incredible contrast, clarity and sharpness of that simple shot was obvious. (no PP was done; I inquired.) I was able to tell that that lens was incredibly well corrected, sharp, and useful for several applications I had in mind. I wasn't really even aware of it before that.

I've also been able to tell if a wide-angle lens is for me - amateur shots posted with no correction are very good at pointing out a lens' flaws in real-world use. I've seen flare, contrast hits, and unacceptable levels of distortion - things that saved me time in my purchase decisions. Reviews only go so far, sometimes seeing real-world images bring things home much better.

Second, there are amazing photos posted by incredible photographers. These images are again not super helpful in proving the capabilities of particular gear because the reason they are great pictures is mostly because of the skill and experience of the photographer, not because of the equipment used.

True, but they also show you what you yourself could do with the same equipment after a bit (or a whole lot) of practice. They can be inspirational, and especially useful if the photographer happened to have achieved those shots with less costly, but quality, equipment. Those types of posts have been helpful to me as well, personally, and saved me from making a few very expensive purchases to be able to get a certain look.

So, with these limitations in mind I'll keep posting the occasional picture and looking with respect at the images others put up.

Absolutely the best course of action Paul!

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Here are a few of my favorite things...
---> http://www.flickr.com/photos/95095968@N00/sets/72157626171532197/

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moving_comfort
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Re: Forum Moderation
In reply to Biological_Viewfinder, Aug 19, 2012

Biological_Viewfinder wrote:

...

In less than 2 months, this place would be so calm you could skip a rock across it and it would just go and go and go. The waves would be gone. People would start being nicer to one another.

In less than two months, the hits on and usage levels of these forums would be so low that dpreview would consider closing them down altogether.

These forums harbor bad elements, but 'cleaning them up' to meet your requirements would result in their dusty death.

You would have a hard time making a business case for the type of forum you envision. The forum mirrors the DSLR marketplace - probably something like 40% amateurs, 50% enthusiasts, 10% pros of some sort. Take away the amateurs and enthusiasts, or curtail their activity into compartments you find acceptable, and the forum would basically collapse.

.

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Here are a few of my favorite things...
---> http://www.flickr.com/photos/95095968@N00/sets/72157626171532197/

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tashley
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Re: Forum Moderation
In reply to moving_comfort, Aug 19, 2012

I totally agree - there are some carefully moderated forums out there where nothing ever happens. 1x.com where on the Landscape forum, the first page has a thread over a year old. There are other very moderated places i could mention where the traffic is slow.

It depends on whether you want a drink in the posh hotel lobby with a white-gloved doorman, or whether you want to chance the pub down by the docks...

moving_comfort wrote:

Biological_Viewfinder wrote:

...

In less than 2 months, this place would be so calm you could skip a rock across it and it would just go and go and go. The waves would be gone. People would start being nicer to one another.

In less than two months, the hits on and usage levels of these forums would be so low that dpreview would consider closing them down altogether.

These forums harbor bad elements, but 'cleaning them up' to meet your requirements would result in their dusty death.

You would have a hard time making a business case for the type of forum you envision. The forum mirrors the DSLR marketplace - probably something like 40% amateurs, 50% enthusiasts, 10% pros of some sort. Take away the amateurs and enthusiasts, or curtail their activity into compartments you find acceptable, and the forum would basically collapse.

.

-- hide signature --

Here are a few of my favorite things...
---> http://www.flickr.com/photos/95095968@N00/sets/72157626171532197/

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Gallery & Blog : http://www.timashley.com

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InTheMist
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Re: Frustrated with this Forum's Photographic Examples
In reply to Paul B Jones, Aug 19, 2012

Hear hear, Paul.

Paul B Jones wrote:

OP raises an interesting point, one I've thought about as well - what is the value of the example images people post in these forums to demonstrate the capabilities of particular equipment?

Setting aside the technical/graph captures (which are great if you can understand them) most posted images fall into two categories.

First, there are the mediocre photos that people like me (earnest amateurs) post that are not super helpful in demonstrating a particular point and maybe are even a bit embarrassing. But they don't cause any harm so it is possible to just ignore them or maybe offer some delicate suggestions for improvement.

Second, there are amazing photos posted by incredible photographers. These images are again not super helpful in proving the capabilities of particular gear because the reason they are great pictures is mostly because of the skill and experience of the photographer, not because of the equipment used.

So, with these limitations in mind I'll keep posting the occasional picture and looking with respect at the images others put up.

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Ridicule is not C&C nor is it being helpful nor "stating your opinion"
http://www.flickr.com/InTheMist

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57even
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Re: Frustrated with this Forum's Photographic Examples
In reply to Biological_Viewfinder, Aug 19, 2012

People can buy what they want. Most sports car drivers I know are not as fast as their cars but still obsess about the spec sheet.

But yes, it is much easier to do one's learning on a simpler, less demanding device. A camera this complex demands good technique and mastery of the technical aspects, otherwise it's actually a handicap.

There is certainly no connection between the quality of gallery shots and the cost of the camera they were taken with. Just that people with more expensive camera have fewer excuses.

The trick is not to let it bother you. Some shots posted on here are amazing. Same as every other forum.

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tko
tko
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In reply to Biological_Viewfinder, Aug 19, 2012

It's getting deep in here. You don't have to justify not posting photos. And you can have bad photos and still be a critic. Certainly people make a living of criticizing what they can't do. But don't offer ridiculous explanations that make you look bad.

What makes you think anyone would want to copy your photos? Ha. Maybe everyone else that posts is saving their good photos so you won't copy them.

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AZBlue
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Re: Frustrated with this Forum's Photographic Examples
In reply to Biological_Viewfinder, Aug 19, 2012

This is some truly hypocritical BS coming from someone who has not posted any of his own photos yet comes here to criticize and lecture those who do?

You should get lost.

Biological_Viewfinder wrote:

I really think it would be in poor taste to give examples, but I'm really just astounded by the lack of photographic ability, either technically or creatively on these forums. You would think that some of the greatest cameras ever made would result in some really stunning work. And occasionally that does happen; but more often than not, the pictures are really just demonstrations of resolution and really not much else.

Here's a picture of my hometown, and the sky is blown out completely. But everyone cheers the guy on anyway. Good job, you did good capturing the buildings. No one even notices that the sky is a white nothingness. Or the shot that's just plain useless. Here's my little kid or my dog... SO WHAT!

It's really frustrating to see so many people with so much money and no ability.

I mean a D4 outfit must cost $15,000 easily. And I'm seeing snapshot quality composition from even these guys???? The resolution is there, but the thought isn't.

The worst are those who ask for C&C; because you arleady know that if they need critisim, they haven't found their way yet. It's just painful.

And then I google images for D800 or D4 or D3s and I'm BLOWN AWAY by what people are doing out there. Just not here. I guess this is the place where you honk your horn, "HEY I JUST BOUGHT A $6,000 CAMERA!!! Doesn't that make me important?"

Sigh.
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rayman 2
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A good picture in here is....
In reply to AZBlue, Aug 19, 2012

A good picture in here is.... a picture that shows side by side comparisons between cameras... showing the difference between them side by side...
BECAUSE its a gear forum and the people would come here to look at the abilities
of the cameras NOT the photographers....
and those must be pictures if you show resolutions of highly cropped because
the internet cant do justice to cameras like the D800 not even the D4...
Some people think even we pros show our best work here but thats
not the purpose of this forum... its to show off some of the differences between
the cameras... period ... its a gear forum !
something in that direction....
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=41315641
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Captain Hook
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New comic show?
In reply to Biological_Viewfinder, Aug 19, 2012

Is this a new episode of a kind of comic show?

IMHO: everyone opinion I've read sofar is a little bit true and the same time isn't...

First of all, a lot of people are commenting how many cats, dogs, kids and whatever household stuff being photographed. True, I sometimes think "never mind, don't bother". On the other hand, we all have to learn and progress...
Me too.

But even if one DOES put images up for display, made with that fantastic expensive equipment, there is hardly any real comment. (at least, that is what I encounter).

So come on all! Get out that ridiculous expensive equipment and show us what you created!

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Soverain
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Re: New comic show?
In reply to Captain Hook, Aug 19, 2012

Captain Hook wrote:

So come on all! Get out that ridiculous expensive equipment and show us what you created!

But be warned: you'll be yelled at and told to get out of here by guys like the one in this thread!
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1021&thread=42288757

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Captain Hook
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Re: New comic show?
In reply to Soverain, Aug 19, 2012

Soverain wrote:

But be warned: you'll be yelled at and told to get out of here by guys like the one in this thread!

Oh, oh. I'm scared... Sorry, won't (or will?) do it again.

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primeshooter
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+1 and you know what...
In reply to tashley, Aug 19, 2012

tashley wrote:

I totally agree - there are some carefully moderated forums out there where nothing ever happens. 1x.com where on the Landscape forum, the first page has a thread over a year old. There are other very moderated places i could mention where the traffic is slow.

It depends on whether you want a drink in the posh hotel lobby with a white-gloved doorman, or whether you want to chance the pub down by the docks...

moving_comfort wrote:

Biological_Viewfinder wrote:

...

In less than 2 months, this place would be so calm you could skip a rock across it and it would just go and go and go. The waves would be gone. People would start being nicer to one another.

In less than two months, the hits on and usage levels of these forums would be so low that dpreview would consider closing them down altogether.

These forums harbor bad elements, but 'cleaning them up' to meet your requirements would result in their dusty death.

You would have a hard time making a business case for the type of forum you envision. The forum mirrors the DSLR marketplace - probably something like 40% amateurs, 50% enthusiasts, 10% pros of some sort. Take away the amateurs and enthusiasts, or curtail their activity into compartments you find acceptable, and the forum would basically collapse.

.

-- hide signature --

Here are a few of my favorite things...
---> http://www.flickr.com/photos/95095968@N00/sets/72157626171532197/

-- hide signature --

Gallery & Blog : http://www.timashley.com

+1 to both of you, well said. I hate moderation on forums anyway, most of the time it's too heavy handed. Hell, about 2 weeks ago I had some idiot on here calling me a racist because I quoted a song called "Turning Japanese" by using a thread titled "I think I'm turning japanese" - a play on words about how I cannot stop using the D800 to photograph my son. This song was written in the 80s by the Vapors and was about the writers obsession with taking pictures of his girlfriend referencing the japanese as they are so into their photography etc.

He actually said something like he would not stand by and watch a race be ridiculed. At that point I removed my images in case any "problems" occurred but I am glad to see the people that own this site saw him for the idiot that he was. I will not upload stuff here anytime soon methinks. The harshest critics on here always have the worst shots in their galleries and sometimes it's a test shot of a flippin' brick wall! You cannot moderate taste...

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lomarot
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Re: Frustrated with this Forum's Photographic Examples
In reply to Biological_Viewfinder, Aug 19, 2012

I tend to agree with the original post in some way, but I'd like the author to give the good example and at least post something or give a link to some masterpiece.

This forum is 60% basic amateurs, 20% intermediate amateurs (me), 15 % advanced amateurs, and 5% pros (and by pros I mean people who really know what they do with their cameras).

I think most people do not come here to see great pictures, u can find those eslewhere in the web.
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respilot
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Re: Frustrated with this Forum's Photographic Examples
In reply to lomarot, Aug 19, 2012

lomarot wrote:

I tend to agree with the original post in some way, but I'd like the author to give the good example and at least post something or give a link to some masterpiece.

This forum is 60% basic amateurs, 20% intermediate amateurs (me), 15 % advanced amateurs, and 5% pros (and by pros I mean people who really know what they do with their cameras).

I think most people do not come here to see great pictures, u can find those eslewhere in the web.
--
http://www.dawnlightphoto.com

I completely agree with this and original post. Lots of talk but not walk some are too arrogant and some jealousy and start trashing each other.

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Biological_Viewfinder
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Re: Frustrated with this Forum's Photographic Examples
In reply to lomarot, Aug 19, 2012

lomarot wrote:

I tend to agree with the original post in some way, but I'd like the author to give the good example and at least post something or give a link to some masterpiece.

This forum is 60% basic amateurs, 20% intermediate amateurs (me), 15 % advanced amateurs, and 5% pros (and by pros I mean people who really know what they do with their cameras).

I think most people do not come here to see great pictures, u can find those eslewhere in the web.

I come here to learn. If this isn't a place for pictures, then DPR should remove that ability.

Since that isn't going to happen, the reality is that it is a place for pictures. And at any rate, I just saw one too many picture posts that showed a composition and technique which could be created with an entry level camera; and it was just the straw that broke the camel's back sort of thing.

There are good works here, but very far and few between all the piles of poo, which still get grandioise praising. Oh my, it's so beautiful, I love the sharpness, you can literally see the wetness of that dog crap. Wonderful picture!!

It makes me want to exfoliate my skin with a cheese grater.

This is the PRO CAMERA FORUM! There's nothing Nikon has ever made that is more professional. Why do we have to look at your pets, kids, some flower in the backyard, etc. That's all.

I don't see what the big deal is really. I was frustrated. I voiced it. It's an opinion. If your opinion differs, great. If you agree, great. I have no power to change anything. I'm just voicing my view.

I fully realize that it may feel hypocritical that I'm not giving my own examples. But I have my reasons for not having a gallery here, and not showing my own work. That doesn't mean I don't know when something is spectacular. I'm sure we've all seen a thousand sunsets by now in the photographic work of others, but some of them are so far ahead of the rest that it's like seeing the sun set for the first time. Most of them are poor copies, bland and lacking creativity, over-saturated, terrible messes.

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faterikcartman
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Re: +1 and you know what...
In reply to primeshooter, Aug 20, 2012

primeshooter wrote:

+1 to both of you, well said. I hate moderation on forums anyway, most of the time it's too heavy handed. Hell, about 2 weeks ago I had some idiot on here calling me a racist because I quoted a song called "Turning Japanese" by using a thread titled "I think I'm turning japanese" - a play on words about how I cannot stop using the D800 to photograph my son. This song was written in the 80s by the Vapors and was about the writers obsession with taking pictures of his girlfriend referencing the japanese as they are so into their photography etc.

He actually said something like he would not stand by and watch a race be ridiculed. At that point I removed my images in case any "problems" occurred but I am glad to see the people that own this site saw him for the idiot that he was. I will not upload stuff here anytime soon methinks. The harshest critics on here always have the worst shots in their galleries and sometimes it's a test shot of a flippin' brick wall! You cannot moderate taste...

See my post on the previous page.

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Lisa O
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Re: Frustrated with this Forum's Photographic Examples
In reply to Biological_Viewfinder, Aug 20, 2012

Let's see some of your images since you are such a critic.
You post stupid comments on this forum. Show your stuff.
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