Hesitating between Canon 5D Mark III and Nikon D800

Started Aug 17, 2012 | Discussions
douin
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Hesitating between Canon 5D Mark III and Nikon D800
Aug 17, 2012

Greetings from Bangkok! I went to the Nikon showroom yesterday and I was not very impressed by the fact that i had to insist to be able to hold a Nikon body or lens which were all shelved behind windows! Quite a difference from the day before at the Canon Showroom where all bodies and lenses are available for you to try. It had been a long time I had not held a Nikon body and i have to say it would take me time to get used to the ergonomics after Canon.

I have used both brands many years ago with the Nikon FA, F801, F90 and Canon AE1, A1 and currently i am using the 7D with 17/40 f4L, 24/105 f4L, 70/200 f4 L IS and the 300 f4 L IS. My shoots revolve around scenery, landscape, people when I travel around Asia.

My question is: on an HD 55 inch TV will the difference in sharpness/resolution show with a Nikon D800 over a Canon 5D Mark III?
Many thanks for letting me know.
Thierry

Canon EOS 5D Mark III Canon EOS 7D Nikon D800
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AlbieSky
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Re: Hesitating between Canon 5D Mark III and Nikon D800
In reply to douin, Aug 17, 2012

Since you have all those Canon lenses, you should buy the 5DM3. If you had no equipment, I would go with the 5DM3. A few years ago, I would have recommended the Nikon camp if you had no equipment.

I have Nikon gear, but I think Canon has pulled ahead of Nikon's D800 with their 5DM3. Unless, you need all those megapixels, I would stick with Canon.

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Emacs23
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Re: Hesitating between Canon 5D Mark III and Nikon D800
In reply to douin, Aug 17, 2012

douin wrote:

Greetings from Bangkok! I went to the Nikon showroom yesterday and I was not very impressed by the fact that i had to insist to be able to hold a Nikon body or lens which were all shelved behind windows! Quite a difference from the day before at the Canon Showroom where all bodies and lenses are available for you to try. It had been a long time I had not held a Nikon body and i have to say it would take me time to get used to the ergonomics after Canon.

I have used both brands many years ago with the Nikon FA, F801, F90 and Canon AE1, A1 and currently i am using the 7D with 17/40 f4L, 24/105 f4L, 70/200 f4 L IS and the 300 f4 L IS. My shoots revolve around scenery, landscape, people when I travel around Asia.

My question is: on an HD 55 inch TV will the difference in sharpness/resolution show with a Nikon D800 over a Canon 5D Mark III?
Many thanks for letting me know.
Thierry

If you need ultimate IQ then D800 of course.

5d mk III has almost no advantages over that Nikon. Only silent shutter and slightly higher fps. IQ-wise D800 is totally superior.

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Vivid1
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Re: Hesitating between Canon 5D Mark III and Nikon D800
In reply to douin, Aug 17, 2012

Remember you only need about 2.1 Megapixel to fill an HD screen to max resolution.

The questions you should be asking yourself are:

  • Do you need to print really large or crop a lot? (would justify 36Mp)

  • You have an excellent set of lenses - do you want to replace them (No equivalent to 70-200/f4)?

  • Is your current storage and processing power enough to handle gazilions of 36Mp files?

If you still need the d800, I advise you wait a bit until they've sorted the AF problems

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rwbaron
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Re: Hesitating between Canon 5D Mark III and Nikon D800
In reply to Emacs23, Aug 17, 2012

Emacs23 wrote:

douin wrote:

Greetings from Bangkok! I went to the Nikon showroom yesterday and I was not very impressed by the fact that i had to insist to be able to hold a Nikon body or lens which were all shelved behind windows! Quite a difference from the day before at the Canon Showroom where all bodies and lenses are available for you to try. It had been a long time I had not held a Nikon body and i have to say it would take me time to get used to the ergonomics after Canon.

I have used both brands many years ago with the Nikon FA, F801, F90 and Canon AE1, A1 and currently i am using the 7D with 17/40 f4L, 24/105 f4L, 70/200 f4 L IS and the 300 f4 L IS. My shoots revolve around scenery, landscape, people when I travel around Asia.

My question is: on an HD 55 inch TV will the difference in sharpness/resolution show with a Nikon D800 over a Canon 5D Mark III?
Many thanks for letting me know.
Thierry

If you need ultimate IQ then D800 of course.

5d mk III has almost no advantages over that Nikon. Only silent shutter and slightly higher fps. IQ-wise D800 is totally superior.

Could you provide examples of this total IQ superiority of the D800 over the 5D3? I'm not referring to the rare case where a typical user might need to raise shadows more than 3 stops or the even more rare case where someone who owns either camera will actually make a print at 20x30 inches or larger. I'm referring to the overwhelming majority of images captured by the typical buyer of one of these cameras. You know, the 99.99% of shots the typical user will capture like shots of their kids, cats, dogs, family, friends and vacations. A side by side controlled comparison would be great if you could provide a link.

Yes the D800 has very clean shadows due to it's Sony Exmor sensor but how often does a typical user raise shadows enough in an image where this is a noticeable advantage? Printing is expensive as I just had 3 13x19" and 1 16x24" images printed, matted and framed and the total cost was over $700 and I used a very inexpensive framing service. How often do you think a typical buyer would print this large of larger and these were no where near the size where you'd see a difference between these cameras.

Thanks in advance.

Bob
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Phil Hill
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Re: Hesitating between Canon 5D Mark III and Nikon D800
In reply to douin, Aug 17, 2012

douin wrote:

My question is: on an HD 55 inch TV will the difference in sharpness/resolution show with a Nikon D800 over a Canon 5D Mark III?

As mentioned above, you would need to down-rez to approximately 2 MP both the 22 MP Canon images and the 36 MP Nikon images in order to display them on your television. It’s unlikely that you could tell them apart at that resolution.

Having said that, there’s plenty to set the two cameras apart aside from resolution.

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Jon Rty
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Re: Hesitating between Canon 5D Mark III and Nikon D800
In reply to rwbaron, Aug 17, 2012

Quite the strawman to limit the examples to be provided in such a way that the IQ advantage isn't apparent. Could you please provide me with samples that show that the 5D3 has better IQ than the 5D? No extreme low-light or big prints please..

rwbaron wrote:

Could you provide examples of this total IQ superiority of the D800 over the 5D3? I'm not referring to the rare case where a typical user might need to raise shadows more than 3 stops or the even more rare case where someone who owns either camera will actually make a print at 20x30 inches or larger. I'm referring to the overwhelming majority of images captured by the typical buyer of one of these cameras. You know, the 99.99% of shots the typical user will capture like shots of their kids, cats, dogs, family, friends and vacations. A side by side controlled comparison would be great if you could provide a link.

Yes the D800 has very clean shadows due to it's Sony Exmor sensor but how often does a typical user raise shadows enough in an image where this is a noticeable advantage? Printing is expensive as I just had 3 13x19" and 1 16x24" images printed, matted and framed and the total cost was over $700 and I used a very inexpensive framing service. How often do you think a typical buyer would print this large of larger and these were no where near the size where you'd see a difference between these cameras.

Thanks in advance.

Bob
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aftab
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Re: Hesitating between Canon 5D Mark III and Nikon D800
In reply to douin, Aug 17, 2012

You should stay with Canon, especially because you already have all those fabulous lenses.
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aftab
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Re: Hesitating between Canon 5D Mark III and Nikon D800
In reply to Jon Rty, Aug 17, 2012

Funny, how people avoid questions. Old but boring trick.
Did he say 5D3 has better IQ than 5D?

Jon Rty wrote:

Quite the strawman to limit the examples to be provided in such a way that the IQ advantage isn't apparent. Could you please provide me with samples that show that the 5D3 has better IQ than the 5D? No extreme low-light or big prints please..

rwbaron wrote:

Could you provide examples of this total IQ superiority of the D800 over the 5D3? I'm not referring to the rare case where a typical user might need to raise shadows more than 3 stops or the even more rare case where someone who owns either camera will actually make a print at 20x30 inches or larger. I'm referring to the overwhelming majority of images captured by the typical buyer of one of these cameras. You know, the 99.99% of shots the typical user will capture like shots of their kids, cats, dogs, family, friends and vacations. A side by side controlled comparison would be great if you could provide a link.

Yes the D800 has very clean shadows due to it's Sony Exmor sensor but how often does a typical user raise shadows enough in an image where this is a noticeable advantage? Printing is expensive as I just had 3 13x19" and 1 16x24" images printed, matted and framed and the total cost was over $700 and I used a very inexpensive framing service. How often do you think a typical buyer would print this large of larger and these were no where near the size where you'd see a difference between these cameras.

Thanks in advance.

Bob
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Emacs23
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Re: Hesitating between Canon 5D Mark III and Nikon D800
In reply to rwbaron, Aug 17, 2012

rwbaron wrote:

Emacs23 wrote:

douin wrote:

Greetings from Bangkok! I went to the Nikon showroom yesterday and I was not very impressed by the fact that i had to insist to be able to hold a Nikon body or lens which were all shelved behind windows! Quite a difference from the day before at the Canon Showroom where all bodies and lenses are available for you to try. It had been a long time I had not held a Nikon body and i have to say it would take me time to get used to the ergonomics after Canon.

I have used both brands many years ago with the Nikon FA, F801, F90 and Canon AE1, A1 and currently i am using the 7D with 17/40 f4L, 24/105 f4L, 70/200 f4 L IS and the 300 f4 L IS. My shoots revolve around scenery, landscape, people when I travel around Asia.

My question is: on an HD 55 inch TV will the difference in sharpness/resolution show with a Nikon D800 over a Canon 5D Mark III?
Many thanks for letting me know.
Thierry

If you need ultimate IQ then D800 of course.

5d mk III has almost no advantages over that Nikon. Only silent shutter and slightly higher fps. IQ-wise D800 is totally superior.

Could you provide examples of this total IQ superiority of the D800 over the 5D3? I'm not referring to the rare case where a typical user might need to raise shadows more than 3 stops or the even more rare case where someone who owns either camera will actually make a print at 20x30 inches or larger. I'm referring to the overwhelming majority of images captured by the typical buyer of one of these cameras. You know, the 99.99% of shots the typical user will capture like shots of their kids, cats, dogs, family, friends and vacations. A side by side controlled comparison would be great if you could provide a link.

Yes the D800 has very clean shadows due to it's Sony Exmor sensor but how often does a typical user raise shadows enough in an image where this is a noticeable advantage? Printing is expensive as I just had 3 13x19" and 1 16x24" images printed, matted and framed and the total cost was over $700 and I used a very inexpensive framing service. How often do you think a typical buyer would print this large of larger and these were no where near the size where you'd see a difference between these cameras.

Thanks in advance.

Bob
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http://www.pbase.com/rwbaron

Superior DR, superior high ISO performance, superior color separation. It's all measured so don't need particular examples. It's personal fault if someone cannot utilize these benefits during PP.
Some examples (Pentax K-5 with 14.1 stops of DR):

All those pics are taken were single shot. Then shadows were pushed up to 3-5 stops. They are not perfect of course, but still shows sensor capabilities. With any canon camera I couldn't take these (well, some were better if taken in mutliple shots, but I had no idea about this that time, noticed it only during PP).

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Jeff Palmucci
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Re: Hesitating between Canon 5D Mark III and Nikon D800
In reply to douin, Aug 17, 2012

No. You won't be able to tell the difference on an HDTV. I agonized over the same decision and even rented a d800 to compare to my 5d3 when the dxomark numbers came out. I stuck with the 5d3 for a few reasons.

1. Pattern noise is much better than the 5d2. No practical difference in dynamic range
2. High iso is on par with the best
3. Fps is better for action

4. Silent shutter is really silent. Much more so than the d800 and the 1dx (don't know why they didn't put this on the 1dx)
5. Grip is better (better thumb rest and rubber has deeper ridges)
6. I already had lots of canon glass.

Still happy with my decision.

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mgrum
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full HD is only 2 megapixels
In reply to douin, Aug 17, 2012

douin wrote:

My question is: on an HD 55 inch TV will the difference in sharpness/resolution show with a Nikon D800 over a Canon 5D Mark III?
Many thanks for letting me know.
Thierry

Almost certainly not. Your TV resolution will be a maximum of 1920 x 1080 (full HD), which works out at two megapixels. In contrast the D800 is 36 megapixels and the 5D3 22 megapixels. By the time you've massively resized both images to display on your TV there ought to be no discernible difference in sharpness.

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Sebastian1x
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Re: full HD is only 2 megapixels
In reply to mgrum, Aug 17, 2012

I agree, the monitor is the main bottle-neck for the way most of us view images(disregarding the possibility to pixel-peeping at 100% view). Furthermore at least the HD-TV's that I have seen will be a serious bottle-neck also for color & dynamic range, computor monitors are much better in this regard. One of my really best investments is my 30" Dell and that is only 2550*1600 ... so far from 22M or ... 36M or whatever it is (I print large so seldom I could not care less)

mgrum wrote:

douin wrote:

My question is: on an HD 55 inch TV will the difference in sharpness/resolution show with a Nikon D800 over a Canon 5D Mark III?
Many thanks for letting me know.
Thierry

Almost certainly not. Your TV resolution will be a maximum of 1920 x 1080 (full HD), which works out at two megapixels. In contrast the D800 is 36 megapixels and the 5D3 22 megapixels. By the time you've massively resized both images to display on your TV there ought to be no discernible difference in sharpness.

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schmegg
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Re: Hesitating between Canon 5D Mark III and Nikon D800
In reply to Emacs23, Aug 17, 2012

Emacs23 wrote:

All those pics are taken were single shot.

Meh - could've been taken with a D700 or a 5D classic for all we know. Without the EXIF, or your word, there would be no way to tell.

Nice pictures though.

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Rick Knepper
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Easy smeasy IMO
In reply to douin, Aug 17, 2012

The D800 is primarily a camera for static subject matter ie high resolution and off the charts dynamic range (sorry couldn't resist the hyperbole) and the 5D3 is more of an all around camera having acceptable resolution plus having a great AF system, a decent fps rate and better high ISO performance than previous 5D series camers. Personally, I shoot nearly 99% landscape so the D800 would be my choice between these two. For reasons other than the features of these cameras, I am passing on both and waiting for Canon to release their D800 competitor, otherwise, I am all set with a 5D2 and a D3x for the time being and will continue to refine my lens set-up.

Sorry, I can't address your 55" HD TV concern.

douin wrote:

Greetings from Bangkok! I went to the Nikon showroom yesterday and I was not very impressed by the fact that i had to insist to be able to hold a Nikon body or lens which were all shelved behind windows! Quite a difference from the day before at the Canon Showroom where all bodies and lenses are available for you to try. It had been a long time I had not held a Nikon body and i have to say it would take me time to get used to the ergonomics after Canon.

I have used both brands many years ago with the Nikon FA, F801, F90 and Canon AE1, A1 and currently i am using the 7D with 17/40 f4L, 24/105 f4L, 70/200 f4 L IS and the 300 f4 L IS. My shoots revolve around scenery, landscape, people when I travel around Asia.

My question is: on an HD 55 inch TV will the difference in sharpness/resolution show with a Nikon D800 over a Canon 5D Mark III?
Many thanks for letting me know.
Thierry

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cpkuntz
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Re: Hesitating between Canon 5D Mark III and Nikon D800
In reply to douin, Aug 17, 2012

1. The D800 yields better image quality. It has a significantly higher resolution and higher dynamic range.

2. The 5D Mark III is $500 more expensive than the D800.

3. The 5D Mark III is plagued with fewer quality control issues, at the moment, than the D800 (still, quality control issues are rare in any case - most D800 owners are quite happy and have a functioning camera with no issues).

4. You have several really nice Canon lenses already.

5. On an HDTV, the D800's image quality advantages over the 5D Mark III will not be easily apparent.

6. The 5D Mark III has a higher frame rate, but not by much, and it takes less effort and deliberation to get the most out of it than is the case with the D800. To get the most out of the D800 might involve a touch more work - that resolution advantage is best seen when the camera is on a tripod, and the dynamic range is best seen when you push the images in post-processing. The 5D Mark III doesn't hold up to shadow pushing nearly as well - images look great out of camera from both cameras, although some users of the D800 have encountered white balance issues. Again, this is easily fixed in post-processing.

7. Low light is kind of a wash. You'll see a bit less grain at high ISO with the 5D Mark III, but you'll still see as much or more detail in the D800 because of its resolution advantage. Both are great at high ISO. The 5D Mark III might have an edge - but barely.

Conclusion: for those starting out, I usually recommend the D800. To those with several nice L lenses, it's probably not worth switching systems. If you make large prints or shoot landscapes, the D800 is probably worth switching for. Otherwise, stick with Canon and get the 5D Mark III. If you shoot events or are a journalist or street photographer, get the 5D Mark III. If you shoot in a studio, get the D800.

Both cameras are capable. The 5D Mark III is well-rounded and has few downsides. The D800 is revolutionary, but can be frustrating.

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Jon Rty
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Re: Hesitating between Canon 5D Mark III and Nikon D800
In reply to aftab, Aug 17, 2012

Considering the question wasn't aimed at me, I'm not avoiding it anymore than you are avoiding mine. Do you think the 5D3 has better IQ than the 5D? The point is that given the proper restrictions on the examples you're allowed to provide, IQ difference between any cameras becomes incomprehensible, making the whole exercise moot.

aftab wrote:

Funny, how people avoid questions. Old but boring trick.
Did he say 5D3 has better IQ than 5D?

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brightcolours
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Meh
In reply to Emacs23, Aug 17, 2012

You really do like to mess up images with badly judged "post processing", making them look artificial and actually quite unattractive, don't you?

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jayrandomer
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Neither is magical
In reply to douin, Aug 17, 2012

For someone with such an extensive lens collection you should hopefully have a feel for your gear and what it is your current camera lacks. The advantages of sticking with Canon are obvious (familiarity, lenses, ergonomics). The relative advantages of the D800 (DR, resolution) have been extensively discussed. Only you know if you'll be able to take advantage of those--asking about HD monitor display suggests you won't.

Rest assured, though, that neither camera is magical. I've noticed people tend to be happy with either choice and you likely will be, too. There will debate as to which is better until about a year after their respective replacements are in the field, maybe much longer.

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brightcolours
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Re: Hesitating between Canon 5D Mark III and Nikon D800
In reply to cpkuntz, Aug 17, 2012

cpkuntz wrote:

1. The D800 yields better image quality. It has a significantly higher resolution and higher dynamic range.

It has higher resolution, yes. It records better dynamic range IN RAW at LOW ISO settings, and this "DR" does not show back in photos. Unless one loves to overcook or flatten images. At higher ISO settings that is lost. When you go over ISO 400 the 5D mk III gives nicer results. In high ISOs the 5D mk III results are more attractive. And the D800 likes to alias.
Claiming better image quality for the D800 is a bit dubious.

2. The 5D Mark III is $500 more expensive than the D800.

3. The 5D Mark III is plagued with fewer quality control issues, at the moment, than the D800 (still, quality control issues are rare in any case - most D800 owners are quite happy and have a functioning camera with no issues).

The 5D mk III is not plagued by problems. The D800 is. Simple as that.

Also, when one has a D800 without the big AF problems, it still has its fair share of problems (WB, live view quirks among others).

4. You have several really nice Canon lenses already.

5. On an HDTV, the D800's image quality advantages over the 5D Mark III will not be easily apparent.

Will not be apparent. And (see point 1), the D800 does not really have an "IQ" advantage. A resolution advantage yes, but not on TV.

6. The 5D Mark III has a higher frame rate, but not by much,

It actually is a BIG difference. The D800 does not reach its rated frame rate in real conditions, and slows down to a crawl when its buffer is full (and then takes ages to clear that buffer).
The difference really is huge.

and it takes less effort and deliberation to get the most out of it than is the case with the D800. To get the most out of the D800 might involve a touch more work - that resolution advantage is best seen when the camera is on a tripod, and the dynamic range is best seen when you push the images in post-processing.

If you find yourself pushing images in post processing, you really do have to work on your exposure. Or you might be one of those who have shadows or love super flat uncontrasty images.

The 5D Mark III doesn't hold up to shadow pushing nearly as well - images look great out of camera from both cameras, although some users of the D800 have encountered white balance issues. Again, this is easily fixed in post-processing.

Again pushing the same nonsense over and over. If you find yourself pushing shadows 3 stops or more you do have to question yourself.

7. Low light is kind of a wash. You'll see a bit less grain at high ISO with the 5D Mark III, but you'll still see as much or more detail in the D800 because of its resolution advantage. Both are great at high ISO. The 5D Mark III might have an edge - but barely.

Conclusion: for those starting out, I usually recommend the D800. To those with several nice L lenses, it's probably not worth switching systems. If you make large prints or shoot landscapes, the D800 is probably worth switching for. Otherwise, stick with Canon and get the 5D Mark III. If you shoot events or are a journalist or street photographer, get the 5D Mark III. If you shoot in a studio, get the D800.

Both cameras are capable. The 5D Mark III is well-rounded and has few downsides. The D800 is revolutionary, but can be frustrating.

The 5D mk III is better in just about any area (AF speed and accuracy, frame rate, UI, feel, LCD, live view implementation, higher ISO feel and so on. The D800 has two plusses (higher resolution, low read noise).
The 5D mk III is the better camera.

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