Does Cnet understand M43?

Started Aug 10, 2012 | Discussions
Starred
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Does Cnet understand M43?
Aug 10, 2012
olavsm
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Maybe they do understand M43, physics still prevail...
In reply to Starred, Aug 10, 2012

Quote from the review: "I was very disappointed with f22, however, which I found simply too soft to use."

As long as the lens diaphragm permits stepping down to f22, somebody is prone to use that small opening with all its disadvantages. And that a reviewer examins optical performance at all available stops make sense. Not?

So why do m43 lenses permit smaller than f16 in the first hand? (Please, anybody do not answer!!)

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Dixa
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Re: Maybe they do understand M43, physics still prevail...
In reply to olavsm, Aug 10, 2012

f/22 looks terrible on aps-c as well. it's almost as if they had never heard of diffraction

olavsm wrote:

Quote from the review: "I was very disappointed with f22, however, which I found simply too soft to use."

As long as the lens diaphragm permits stepping down to f22, somebody is prone to use that small opening with all its disadvantages. And that a reviewer examins optical performance at all available stops make sense. Not?

So why do m43 lenses permit smaller than f16 in the first hand? (Please, anybody do not answer!!)

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Bill Wallace
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Re: Maybe they do understand M43, physics still prevail...
In reply to olavsm, Aug 10, 2012

olavsm wrote:
snip

Quote from the review: "I was very disappointed with f22, however, which I found simply too soft to use."

So why do m43 lenses permit smaller than f16 in the first hand? (Please, anybody do not answer!!)

Perhaps you've stumbled onto something here...lens makers need to save us from ourselves....

If a reviewer uses f22 in a m4/3 review...well for me all credibility has just left the room. I wouldn't even use it on ff for goodness sakes...

B

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papillon_65
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Re: Maybe they do understand M43, physics still prevail...
In reply to olavsm, Aug 10, 2012

olavsm wrote:

Quote from the review: "I was very disappointed with f22, however, which I found simply too soft to use."

That was very funny, taxi for the reviewer :).

As long as the lens diaphragm permits stepping down to f22, somebody is prone to use that small opening with all its disadvantages. And that a reviewer examins optical performance at all available stops make sense. Not?

So why do m43 lenses permit smaller than f16 in the first hand? (Please, anybody do not answer!!)

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Durm
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Re: Does Cnet understand M43?
In reply to Starred, Aug 10, 2012

Starred wrote:

http://reviews.cnet.com/lenses/olympus-m-zuiko-75mm/4505-13038_7-35403628.html

I think you are correct... The writer doesnt seem to have a clue about m43, and maybe not about photography in general after that remark about softness at f22.

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Ropo16
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Re: Does Cnet understand M43?
In reply to Starred, Aug 10, 2012

How did I know the name Lori Grunin would appear when I followed the link. This person is a legend for all the wrong reasons. I am amazed she still has the job.

Starred wrote:

http://reviews.cnet.com/lenses/olympus-m-zuiko-75mm/4505-13038_7-35403628.html

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amipal
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Re: Maybe they do understand M43, physics still prevail...
In reply to Dixa, Aug 10, 2012

Dixa wrote:

f/22 looks terrible on aps-c as well. it's almost as if they had never heard of diffraction

I hadn't heard of diffraction in photography until I had it explained here! Took a few shots at Kew Gardens at f/16 with the Vario 14-140mm that were stupidly blurred.

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dcassat
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In reply to Starred, Aug 10, 2012

At moments you get the impression that Lori knows what's she talking about and then she says something like f/22 being too fuzzy for her use.

Really?

Is it possible that you really understand camera technology without understanding diffraction?

Then, the 75mm is just an amazing lens and this review just doesn't come close to doing it justice, never mind she gives no credit to the achievements of m4/3.

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illy
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Am i the only one who actually read it?
In reply to Starred, Aug 10, 2012

it seems a very reasonable if short review, pretty much sums up the strengths of the lens and it's weakness at f/22(hardly surprising), there will be plenty of technical reviews for those who wish it, but please, come on, lets not get all huffy and offended over a a few words taken out of context
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Chris R-UK
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Re: Maybe they do understand M43, physics still prevail...
In reply to Bill Wallace, Aug 10, 2012

Bill Wallace wrote:

[snip]

If a reviewer uses f22 in a m4/3 review...well for me all credibility has just left the room. I wouldn't even use it on ff for goodness sakes...

I agree that f22 on M4/3 is for extreme emergencies only, but there are times when you have to have a very small aperture to get the shot, especially if you don't have an ND filter or you have to have both the foreground and the background in focus.

I have a few acceptable shots taken at f29 on an APS-C camera and I certainly used to use f22 on film SLRs. Sometimes you just have to accept less than optimum sharpness.
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GregGory
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In reply to Ropo16, Aug 10, 2012
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mpgxsvcd
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Re: Maybe they do understand M43, physics still prevail...
In reply to Chris R-UK, Aug 10, 2012

I shot this video looking directly at the Sun with F22. That is the only time I have ever seen a need to go to a really small aperture. I still don't see the benefit of stopping WAY down with m4/3s.

Anything after F8.0 really doesn't give you more depth of field with any of the current lenses unless you are just super close to the subject to begin with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gwj1jXmRZ8

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Atlasman
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Re: Does Cnet understand M43?
In reply to Starred, Aug 10, 2012

How about this:

You are panning with a moving object, you want to streak the background, you don't have any ND filters handy but you want low shutter speeds and it is a bright sunny day.

With the E-M5 your ISO is 200, that's it. Something like in the following shot.

The shot was taken with the Canon PowerShot Pro 1, exposure time was 1/30 of a second, ISO 50, f71. plus the employment of the built-in ND filter.

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Narcosynthesis
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In reply to GregGory, Aug 10, 2012

f22 may be beyond normal use for most people, but there will be times it can become necessary to use it, therefore it is worth testing...

All lenses vary too, so even if it may be bad, it may not be as bad on some lenses as others, so worth noting there too
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Chris R-UK
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Re: Maybe they do understand M43, physics still prevail...
In reply to mpgxsvcd, Aug 10, 2012

mpgxsvcd wrote:

I shot this video looking directly at the Sun with F22. That is the only time I have ever seen a need to go to a really small aperture. I still don't see the benefit of stopping WAY down with m4/3s.

Anything after F8.0 really doesn't give you more depth of field with any of the current lenses unless you are just super close to the subject to begin with.

The other reason is when you need a very slow shutter speed in bright light, e.g. for deliberate motion blur. If you haven't got an ND filter then a very small aperture is the only option.

See atlasman's post further down this thread.
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mpgxsvcd
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Re: Does Cnet understand M43?
In reply to Atlasman, Aug 10, 2012

That is a situation I can see stopping down in. I didn't really think about that situation because I don't normally like the blurred motion pictures. That one is well done though.

Still would you really need to stop down to F22? I wonder if something like 1/60th shutter speed, ISO 200, and F8.0 would get it? How big an ND filter is that?

You could also overexpose a little and bring it down in post.

Another trick with the Panasonic cameras that most people don't know about is that the color modes meter differently.

For example the smooth mode boosts the shadows so it actually meters 1/3rd of a stop less than all of the other modes. Shooting Shutter Priority, Auto ISO, in smooth mode gets you at least 1/3rd of a stop ND filter over the other modes because it doesn't touch the highlights just the shadows.

You would definitely have to stop down. I just don't think you would need to go all the way to F22.

Atlasman wrote:

How about this:

You are panning with a moving object, you want to streak the background, you don't have any ND filters handy but you want low shutter speeds and it is a bright sunny day.

With the E-M5 your ISO is 200, that's it. Something like in the following shot.

The shot was taken with the Canon PowerShot Pro 1, exposure time was 1/30 of a second, ISO 50, f71. plus the employment of the built-in ND filter.

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kodachromeguy
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physics prevails - diffraction well understoof decades ago
In reply to amipal, Aug 10, 2012

Wow, I am surprised. Even decades ago, optical engineers knew about the effects of diffraction. That is why most classic lenses for 35mm cameras up to about 105 mm focal length did not stop down beyond f/16. There were exceptions, of course, such as macro lenses.

Once the mid-range popular zoom lenses hit the market, they typically went to f/22 or even f/32, but it was probably felt that their target audience did not care or understand diffraction. With high-speed print film and hand-holding, the diffraction may have not been obvious.

Leica's rule-of-thumb was to not stop down beyond 1/4 of the lens focal length, so with a 50 mm, do not stop down to less than f/12. For a 35mm lens, do not exceed f/8.
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mpgxsvcd
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In reply to Narcosynthesis, Aug 10, 2012

But diffraction becomes and issue at F22 with any m4/3s camera. I am going to try to do a test that demonstrates how much of an affect it really has.

Narcosynthesis wrote:

f22 may be beyond normal use for most people, but there will be times it can become necessary to use it, therefore it is worth testing...

All lenses vary too, so even if it may be bad, it may not be as bad on some lenses as others, so worth noting there too
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kodachromeguy
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Does anyone pay attention to Cnet for anything?
In reply to Starred, Aug 10, 2012

Seriously, do they have any credibility?
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