Nikon "refreshes" 1 System...YEA RIGHT!

Started Aug 9, 2012 | Discussions
M Hamilton
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Nikon "refreshes" 1 System...YEA RIGHT!
Aug 9, 2012

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/08/09/Nikon-1-J2-mirrorless-camera-refreshes-1-Systems-consumer-model#specs

If you guys didn't get a chance to read this, you're in for a laugh. Nikon just announced the J1.1 (called it the J2 for some reason...)

Looks like m4/3 has nothing to worry about from the Nikon camp.

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JosephScha
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Re: Nikon "refreshes" 1 System...YEA RIGHT!
In reply to M Hamilton, Aug 9, 2012

I can see why you'd say that, but higher res LCD and $100 less than J1 are both steps in the right direction if Nikon wants to sell more of these. So, although it's pretty clear that changes this fast will probably annoy J1 buyers, these changes could indicate that Nikon really wants to get into this market. So I'm not sure I'd feel so sanguine.
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Bob Tullis
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Re: Nikon "refreshes" 1 System...YEA RIGHT!
In reply to M Hamilton, Aug 9, 2012

M Hamilton wrote:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/08/09/Nikon-1-J2-mirrorless-camera-refreshes-1-Systems-consumer-model#specs

If you guys didn't get a chance to read this, you're in for a laugh. Nikon just announced the J1.1 (called it the J2 for some reason...)

Looks like m4/3 has nothing to worry about from the Nikon camp.

Was there a memo I missed that speaks of this concern? Who particularly is worried?

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REShultz
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Re: Nikon "refreshes" 1 System...YEA RIGHT!
In reply to Bob Tullis, Aug 9, 2012

I don't get these threads dogging other systems and I don't get the insecurity on the M43 forum about other systems.

It is of interest though to see how these mirrorless systems are introduced and next to nothing is done to follow up. The Pentax Q and Nikon 1 users have been waiting patiently for lenses that will probably never arrive. And that does make M43 a unique system-- one that is actually developing. But that should create excitement amongst users and not the tendency to dog other systems.

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Promit
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Re: Nikon "refreshes" 1 System...YEA RIGHT!
In reply to M Hamilton, Aug 9, 2012

M Hamilton wrote:

Looks like m4/3 has nothing to worry about from the Nikon camp.

I would like to congratulate you on at least making this thread somehow relevant to the forum. Seriously. Most people seem to think the m4/3 forum is a dumping ground for any and all mirrorless talk -- AND all large sensor compact talk. Bought an RX100? Whine about it here. Ugh.

That said, I thought we got way too many kit zoom lenses, but looking at the new Nikon option? LOL. As Thom says on SansMirror:

I have a message for Nikon: you screwed up with DX lenses, now you're screwing up CX lenses even worse. Announcing this lens will actually push a lot more folk to m4/3 than not announcing any lens would have. At least if you hadn't announced a lens we could still pretend to dream that you'll some day announce the lenses Nikon 1 users really want.

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Anfy
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In reply to REShultz, Aug 9, 2012

REShultz wrote:

I don't get these threads dogging other systems and I don't get the insecurity on the M43 forum about other systems.

It is of interest though to see how these mirrorless systems are introduced and next to nothing is done to follow up. The Pentax Q and Nikon 1 users have been waiting patiently for lenses that will probably never arrive. And that does make M43 a unique system-- one that is actually developing. But that should create excitement amongst users and not the tendency to dog other systems.

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tgutgu
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Re: Nikon "refreshes" 1 System...YEA RIGHT!
In reply to M Hamilton, Aug 9, 2012

It is rather a J1.0.1 (a bug fix release).

It seems that both DSLR market leaders don't get it. Canon's mirrorless approach is only slightly better but no competition to m4/3.

M Hamilton wrote:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/08/09/Nikon-1-J2-mirrorless-camera-refreshes-1-Systems-consumer-model#specs

If you guys didn't get a chance to read this, you're in for a laugh. Nikon just announced the J1.1 (called it the J2 for some reason...)

Looks like m4/3 has nothing to worry about from the Nikon camp.

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Promit
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Re: Nikon "refreshes" 1 System...YEA RIGHT!
In reply to REShultz, Aug 9, 2012

I was hoping the Nikon and Canon entries into the market would create pressure at a technical level for m4/3 to be better than it is. That dream is not being borne out yet...

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papillon_65
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Re: Nikon "refreshes" 1 System...YEA RIGHT!
In reply to REShultz, Aug 9, 2012

REShultz wrote:

I don't get these threads dogging other systems and I don't get the insecurity on the M43 forum about other systems.

One post doesn't make a "forum". Plenty of people on here use multiple systems and are quite happy or not bothered about other systems.

It is of interest though to see how these mirrorless systems are introduced and next to nothing is done to follow up. The Pentax Q and Nikon 1 users have been waiting patiently for lenses that will probably never arrive. And that does make M43 a unique system-- one that is actually developing. But that should create excitement amongst users and not the tendency to dog other systems.

I think it does but other competing systems encourage development and that can't be bad. Some of the angst from some posters is more a reaction to being dogged by trolls from other systems, mainly using the "small sensor" jibe as bait. You don't see many Nikon 1 people doing this for obvious reasons. As it stands I think m4/3's is a bit of a sweet spot but I'm guessing that makes me a "fanboy" :).
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LincolnB
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Re: Nikon "refreshes" 1 System...YEA RIGHT!
In reply to Bob Tullis, Aug 9, 2012

Bob Tullis wrote:

Was there a memo I missed that speaks of this concern?

Nope.

Who particularly is worried?

Marketing folks. People who let market share guide their camera purchases are certain to be lousy photographers.

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Aleo Veuliah
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Re: Nikon "refreshes" 1 System...YEA RIGHT!
In reply to M Hamilton, Aug 9, 2012

M Hamilton wrote:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/08/09/Nikon-1-J2-mirrorless-camera-refreshes-1-Systems-consumer-model#specs

If you guys didn't get a chance to read this, you're in for a laugh. Nikon just announced the J1.1 (called it the J2 for some reason...)

Looks like m4/3 has nothing to worry about from the Nikon camp.

I agree, and neither from the other camps, Micro 4/3 is still the best choice and it will be for mirrorless cameras.

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Aleo Veuliah
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Re: Nikon "refreshes" 1 System...YEA RIGHT!
In reply to Promit, Aug 9, 2012

Promit wrote:

I was hoping the Nikon and Canon entries into the market would create pressure at a technical level for m4/3 to be better than it is. That dream is not being borne out yet...

Neither it will be born, Micro 4/3 is on the right path.

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PenFan2011
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Re: Nikon "refreshes" 1 System...YEA RIGHT!
In reply to M Hamilton, Aug 9, 2012

Yes, very amusing. I consider the J2 as an insult to Nikon users that wanted a decent mirrorless camera. (I am a E-PL1 and D-60 owner, in the interest of full disclosure)

It lacks several features found in the less expensive E-PM1, and they are asking for more money. If I only used Nikon I would still pass on this. To Nikon, either jump in the pool or stop dipping your toes in the mirrorless market!

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The Skipper
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Re: Nikon "refreshes" 1 System...YEA RIGHT!
In reply to PenFan2011, Aug 9, 2012

I was pretty annoyed towards these cameras also, but Nikon must be doing something right, they are selling lots of them. I don't know for sure, but my guess is that the J1 is the top selling mirrorless camera?

PenFan2011 wrote:

Yes, very amusing. I consider the J2 as an insult to Nikon users that wanted a decent mirrorless camera. (I am a E-PL1 and D-60 owner, in the interest of full disclosure)

It lacks several features found in the less expensive E-PM1, and they are asking for more money. If I only used Nikon I would still pass on this. To Nikon, either jump in the pool or stop dipping your toes in the mirrorless market!

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Promit
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Re: Nikon "refreshes" 1 System...YEA RIGHT!
In reply to The Skipper, Aug 9, 2012

The Skipper wrote:

I was pretty annoyed towards these cameras also, but Nikon must be doing something right, they are selling lots of them. I don't know for sure, but my guess is that the J1 is the top selling mirrorless camera?

Consider the normal consumer who doesn't haunt B&H/Adorama/etc but goes to a store and asks the salesperson what to buy. Yes, that's most people. That's why salespeople have a job.

Think about how the conversation goes.

"Well we've got this Olympus E-PL1 in stock but it's an old model which is slow."
"Do you have the new models?"

"Afraid we don't carry them. But this here is the brand new Nikon camera, it's very similar but fast. Nikon makes the best stuff you know."
"That sounds and looks pretty good. I'll take one."

I've never seen anything higher end than a GF3 or E-P2 in a camera store around here (Baltimore MD). G2/3? GH2? The E-PM1? Hah.

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mpgxsvcd
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Re: Nikon "refreshes" 1 System...YEA RIGHT!
In reply to M Hamilton, Aug 9, 2012

M4/3s has everything to worry about. Since Nikon couldn't beat m4/3s at the mirror-less game they used their immense marketing power to promote a less than stellar mirror-less product. That makes all mirror-less solutions look bad. Especially when those other Manufactures(Panasonic and Olympus) don't promote their more than stellar solutions enough.

Now everyone sees the J(whatever) and says oh those mirror-less cameras are a joke.

The end result is that Nikon proved out some cool auto focus technology, ill-informed consumers have lost confidence in mirror-less, and Nikon is poised to a make a killing off of a D8000 that has hybrid AF and an electronic shutter(Not Global Electronic though).

They never intended this product to succeed. They just wanted to test some new technologies without affecting their DSLR's reputation. It was quite a clever tactic and appears to be working.

M Hamilton wrote:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/08/09/Nikon-1-J2-mirrorless-camera-refreshes-1-Systems-consumer-model#specs

If you guys didn't get a chance to read this, you're in for a laugh. Nikon just announced the J1.1 (called it the J2 for some reason...)

Looks like m4/3 has nothing to worry about from the Nikon camp.

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revio
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In reply to Promit, Aug 9, 2012

Promit:

You nailed it better than you might even have thought...
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mpgxsvcd
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Re: Nikon "refreshes" 1 System...YEA RIGHT!
In reply to Promit, Aug 9, 2012

I just want to quote this because it is 100% dead on.

Promit wrote:

Consider the normal consumer who doesn't haunt B&H/Adorama/etc but goes to a store and asks the salesperson what to buy. Yes, that's most people. That's why salespeople have a job.

Think about how the conversation goes.

"Well we've got this Olympus E-PL1 in stock but it's an old model which is slow."
"Do you have the new models?"

"Afraid we don't carry them. But this here is the brand new Nikon camera, it's very similar but fast. Nikon makes the best stuff you know."
"That sounds and looks pretty good. I'll take one."

I've never seen anything higher end than a GF3 or E-P2 in a camera store around here (Baltimore MD). G2/3? GH2? The E-PM1? Hah.

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revio
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Re: Nikon "refreshes" 1 System...YEA RIGHT!
In reply to mpgxsvcd, Aug 9, 2012

M4/3s has everything to worry about. Since Nikon couldn't beat m4/3s at the mirror-less game they used their immense marketing power to promote a less than stellar mirror-less product. That makes all mirror-less solutions look bad. Especially when those other Manufactures(Panasonic and Olympus) don't promote their more than stellar solutions enough.

Now everyone sees the J(whatever) and says oh those mirror-less cameras are a joke.

The end result is that Nikon proved out some cool auto focus technology, ill-informed consumers have lost confidence in mirror-less, and Nikon is poised to a make a killing off of a D8000 that has hybrid AF and an electronic shutter(Not Global Electronic though).

They never intended this product to succeed. They just wanted to test some new technologies without affecting their DSLR's reputation. It was quite a clever tactic and appears to be working.

Then, if this is a solid view and how things are or may be going to turn out, the obvious answer from Oly/Pana would be to put out more and better performing models at the entry level (price wise) with DSLR-looking exteriors. Less of Pen/GF-designs and more of G/GH & OM-D lookers!

But, the whole point of it: much smaller and also "cuter" than any Nikon/Canon/other DSLR will ever get...

Oly fex should soon as possible put out BOTH a hi-end OM-D (irrespective if a E-7 may be also in its pipeline) and a OM-D of lesser spec/lower price BUT with the cheaper one still posessing the fine sensor tech and solid AF of the EM-5...just build it a bit less ambitious and make sure producing them quicker so they IRL could sell lots...

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REShultz
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Re: Nikon "refreshes" 1 System...YEA RIGHT!
In reply to papillon_65, Aug 10, 2012

Hmmm, but it's more than just one thread. A few weeks ago it was the Canon.

In any case, M43 is a sweet spot. And it's being invested in, and a large percentage of success is just showing up. I give M43 credit for showing up and pushing the bar with innovations. It's more than other mirrorless systems can say right now and I feel slightly bad for folks who invested on good faith.

papillon_65 wrote:

REShultz wrote:

I don't get these threads dogging other systems and I don't get the insecurity on the M43 forum about other systems.

One post doesn't make a "forum". Plenty of people on here use multiple systems and are quite happy or not bothered about other systems.

It is of interest though to see how these mirrorless systems are introduced and next to nothing is done to follow up. The Pentax Q and Nikon 1 users have been waiting patiently for lenses that will probably never arrive. And that does make M43 a unique system-- one that is actually developing. But that should create excitement amongst users and not the tendency to dog other systems.

I think it does but other competing systems encourage development and that can't be bad. Some of the angst from some posters is more a reaction to being dogged by trolls from other systems, mainly using the "small sensor" jibe as bait. You don't see many Nikon 1 people doing this for obvious reasons. As it stands I think m4/3's is a bit of a sweet spot but I'm guessing that makes me a "fanboy" :).
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