Lightning strikes twice

Started Aug 7, 2012 | Discussions
efg40
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Re: Original (almost) and crop
In reply to efg40, Aug 7, 2012

I'm still thinking lightning movement myself. I see it all the time, where it strikes and moves at the same time.

Here's another extreme crop from an area near the top, where the line does not exactly follow. I did extreme levels on it to show it better...

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osage_archer
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Re: Original (almost) and crop
In reply to efg40, Aug 7, 2012

But the line DOES exactly follow! There is a one-to-one correspondence between any and every point on the bright line and the dim line, at the same distance and angle on the photo. The dim line is clearly a reflection perhaps on an element of the lens. In the pictures I have taken it is clearly a reflection off the pane of glass which has two surfaces that can reflect light.

Besides, as I said, the idea that somehow during a lightning strike there is a much dimmer and weaker bolt that exactly follows the path of the bright bolt at the same time but is displaced in space by dozens or hundreds of feet to the left or right, is not known to science at all...no one has ever documented this or explained this - because it does not happen.

efg40 wrote:

I'm still thinking lightning movement myself. I see it all the time, where it strikes and moves at the same time.

Here's another extreme crop from an area near the top, where the line does not exactly follow. I did extreme levels on it to show it better...

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Elizabeth
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efg40
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Tom Skilling says....
In reply to efg40, Aug 7, 2012

Well I decided I would ask the very best weather nerd in the world, Tom Skilling. I posted the picture to his wall on Facebook and this is his answer which is what I said, only the correct term for it...

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osage_archer
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Re: Tom Skilling says....
In reply to efg40, Aug 7, 2012

Obviously you're going to believe what you want to believe. But regardless of the "expert" opinion, in the 1/60 or 1/20 of a second during which the pictures were taken, the lightning channel is NOT going to be moved dozens or hundreds of feet by the wind - if the wind blew at 60 mph, that's 88 feet per second, so in 1/60th of a second it would move less than 1.5 feet. Both our photos show MUCH more movement than that. Plus as I said along EVERY point at the SAME distance and angle, the dim line is in the same relation to the bright line - the wind blowing exactly the same along the whole path? And if it were moving, would not the image be smeared instead of two distinct images?

Post that response and see what he says about the channel moving dozens or hundreds of feet in a fraction of a second, and why their would be two distinct images and not a smeared image...

Here is a page that actually does show some lightning channel drift:

http://stormhighway.com/april172006.shtml

efg40 wrote:

Well I decided I would ask the very best weather nerd in the world, Tom Skilling. I posted the picture to his wall on Facebook and this is his answer which is what I said, only the correct term for it...

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efg40
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Re: Tom Skilling says....
In reply to osage_archer, Aug 7, 2012

Post that response and see what he says about the channel moving dozens or hundreds of feet in a fraction of a second, and why their would be two distinct images and not a smeared image...

I understand your evidence and opinion, and yes, I disagree. The lightning was much closer than you think, I think, and the distance between lines not as great as you think. Also, gusts up to 70 mph accompanied this storm, so some strange phenomenon can happen in a sky full of charge.

No way in heck I'll be posting arguments with the kind Mr. Skilling.

Whatever it is, a most unusual sensor reflection or lightning drift caught in an unusual way by the camera, it's not something I've ever seen so I will just appreciate it's uniqueness either way.

efg40 wrote:

Well I decided I would ask the very best weather nerd in the world, Tom Skilling. I posted the picture to his wall on Facebook and this is his answer which is what I said, only the correct term for it...

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osage_archer
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Re: Tom Skilling says....
In reply to efg40, Aug 7, 2012

Well, we'll just have to disagree - it's a good image but hardly unique, as the image I posted taken through glass shows exactly the same thing - a reflection, nothing more and nothing less, off one surface of the pane of glass due to the extreme brightness of a lightning strike.

Any movement even with 70mph winds (a bit over 100 feet per second) would show as a blurred image at 1/60th of a second, just as when you take a long exposure nighttime image of car headlights or taillights - not two separate and distinct images that are the mirror image of one another but with one significantly dimmer. Your lightning image was certainly no closer than 1/4 mile or so and the separation shown between the brighter and dimmer image would still be dozens of feet. If it were the wind it could show no more than 1.5 feet of movement or so in 1/60th of a second - and it would show blurring and not two separate, distinct images.

efg40 wrote:

Post that response and see what he says about the channel moving dozens or hundreds of feet in a fraction of a second, and why their would be two distinct images and not a smeared image...

I understand your evidence and opinion, and yes, I disagree. The lightning was much closer than you think, I think, and the distance between lines not as great as you think. Also, gusts up to 70 mph accompanied this storm, so some strange phenomenon can happen in a sky full of charge.

No way in heck I'll be posting arguments with the kind Mr. Skilling.

Whatever it is, a most unusual sensor reflection or lightning drift caught in an unusual way by the camera, it's not something I've ever seen so I will just appreciate it's uniqueness either way.

efg40 wrote:

Well I decided I would ask the very best weather nerd in the world, Tom Skilling. I posted the picture to his wall on Facebook and this is his answer which is what I said, only the correct term for it...

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don m
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Re: Tom Skilling says....
In reply to osage_archer, Aug 7, 2012

Hi Tom,

Since it's a lightning strike and travelling more than the speed of the wind you mentioned below, I think we can rule out the blurring as an issue... don't you think?

Regards,
Don

osage_archer wrote:

Well, we'll just have to disagree - it's a good image but hardly unique, as the image I posted taken through glass shows exactly the same thing - a reflection, nothing more and nothing less, off one surface of the pane of glass due to the extreme brightness of a lightning strike.

Any movement even with 70mph winds (a bit over 100 feet per second) would show as a blurred image at 1/60th of a second, just as when you take a long exposure nighttime image of car headlights or taillights - not two separate and distinct images that are the mirror image of one another but with one significantly dimmer. Your lightning image was certainly no closer than 1/4 mile or so and the separation shown between the brighter and dimmer image would still be dozens of feet. If it were the wind it could show no more than 1.5 feet of movement or so in 1/60th of a second - and it would show blurring and not two separate, distinct images.

efg40 wrote:

Post that response and see what he says about the channel moving dozens or hundreds of feet in a fraction of a second, and why their would be two distinct images and not a smeared image...

I understand your evidence and opinion, and yes, I disagree. The lightning was much closer than you think, I think, and the distance between lines not as great as you think. Also, gusts up to 70 mph accompanied this storm, so some strange phenomenon can happen in a sky full of charge.

No way in heck I'll be posting arguments with the kind Mr. Skilling.

Whatever it is, a most unusual sensor reflection or lightning drift caught in an unusual way by the camera, it's not something I've ever seen so I will just appreciate it's uniqueness either way.

efg40 wrote:

Well I decided I would ask the very best weather nerd in the world, Tom Skilling. I posted the picture to his wall on Facebook and this is his answer which is what I said, only the correct term for it...

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Elizabeth
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Tim in upstate NY
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Re: Tom Skilling says....
In reply to don m, Aug 7, 2012

don m wrote:

Hi Tom,

Since it's a lightning strike and travelling more than the speed of the wind you mentioned below, I think we can rule out the blurring as an issue... don't you think?

. . . And she's already said that she wasn't shooting through a glass window.

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osage_archer
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Re: Tom Skilling says....
In reply to Tim in upstate NY, Aug 7, 2012

Sure, and I accept that she wasn't shooting through a glass window. Don't you think it's a really strange coincidence then that the image I posted shooting through a glass window shows as exactly as can be imagined for two different images, the same type of effect? I think it's an internal reflection from her lens(es). Has it ever been documented that you have one bright (normal) lightning strike accompanied by a somehow dimmer one dozens or hundreds of feet away that matches the path exactly of the bright strike?

Tim in upstate NY wrote:

don m wrote:

Hi Tom,

Since it's a lightning strike and travelling more than the speed of the wind you mentioned below, I think we can rule out the blurring as an issue... don't you think?

. . . And she's already said that she wasn't shooting through a glass window.

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don m
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Re: Tom Skilling says....
In reply to osage_archer, Aug 7, 2012

Yes, I agree Tom, it could be some type of internal reflection between sensor and lenses. But I don't discount the drift theory either.... or possibly, maybe, as an outside chance or long shot, the IBIS played a part... ducking quickly for cover.

I dunno,
Don

osage_archer wrote:

Sure, and I accept that she wasn't shooting through a glass window. Don't you think it's a really strange coincidence then that the image I posted shooting through a glass window shows as exactly as can be imagined for two different images, the same type of effect? I think it's an internal reflection from her lens(es). Has it ever been documented that you have one bright (normal) lightning strike accompanied by a somehow dimmer one dozens or hundreds of feet away that matches the path exactly of the bright strike?

Tim in upstate NY wrote:

don m wrote:

Hi Tom,

Since it's a lightning strike and travelling more than the speed of the wind you mentioned below, I think we can rule out the blurring as an issue... don't you think?

. . . And she's already said that she wasn't shooting through a glass window.

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markintosh13
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Re: Tom Skilling says....
In reply to osage_archer, Aug 7, 2012

You realize that the similarity of her photo not taken from behind glass and your photo actually discounts your assertion that your photo shows reflection from the glass?

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efg40
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Re: Tom Skilling says....
In reply to osage_archer, Aug 7, 2012

osage_archer wrote:

Well, we'll just have to disagree - it's a good image but hardly unique,

Ok, not unique either. You win.

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Bob Tullis
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Re: Tom Skilling says....
In reply to efg40, Aug 7, 2012

Well, I finally have a Lightning Trigger, so I may have more opportunity than, well, without, to look for this moving forward.

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efg40
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Re: Tom Skilling says....
In reply to Bob Tullis, Aug 7, 2012

Bob Tullis wrote:

Well, I finally have a Lightning Trigger, so I may have more opportunity than, well, without, to look for this moving forward.

Had to look it up; didn't know they had such a thing. I'll expect some lightning photos from ya now!

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Marla
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Re: Lightning strikes twice
In reply to efg40, Aug 8, 2012

I just saw this thread!

These are great! Any attempt to shoot Lightening is really a challenge! You did well! I will check more threads that I haven't read to see others comments, but that 2nd shot with 2 "strikes" is quite interesting. I'll read further on.
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Bob Tullis
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Re: Tom Skilling says....
In reply to efg40, Aug 8, 2012

Of course, when chasing sunsets it's always overcast. And so it will probably go with the Lightning Trigger.

I've only had one successful lightning attempt. And it scared the heck out of me. That was two years ago. I used the L.T. since on the same porch, (nothing to show from it - this "window" on the sky being too narrow) but I could set the camera up and go inside. This one was too close for comfort (if I didn't see the shot, I'd swear it hit 50 yards away, not the 1/2 mile or more distance that it was).

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efg40
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Re: Lightning strikes twice
In reply to Marla, Aug 8, 2012

Marla wrote:
I'll read further on.

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Maria

I wouldn't! Just draw your own conclusions!

Or I can condense here: It's drifting sensor lens glass patio door reflecting shake CA.

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efg40
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Re: Tom Skilling says....
In reply to Bob Tullis, Aug 8, 2012

Bob Tullis wrote:

Of course, when chasing sunsets it's always overcast. And so it will probably go with the Lightning Trigger.

I've only had one successful lightning attempt. And it scared the heck out of me. That was two years ago. I used the L.T. since on the same porch, (nothing to show from it - this "window" on the sky being too narrow) but I could set the camera up and go inside. This one was too close for comfort (if I didn't see the shot, I'd swear it hit 50 yards away, not the 1/2 mile or more distance that it was).

That looks VERYclose! Excellent shot though, so worth it from my end.

You do have a slim window there, but far better framing for a good lightning picture!

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Tim in upstate NY
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Re: Lightning strikes twice
In reply to efg40, Aug 8, 2012

efg40 wrote:

Marla wrote:
I'll read further on.

I wouldn't! Just draw your own conclusions!

Or I can condense here: It's drifting sensor lens glass patio door reflecting shake CA.

. . . You forgot about that mysterious tracer phenomena theory.

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Tim in upstate NY
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Re: Tom Skilling says....
In reply to Bob Tullis, Aug 8, 2012

Bob Tullis wrote:

Well, I finally have a Lightning Trigger, so I may have more opportunity than, well, without, to look for this moving forward.

. . . I was looking at this one a while back:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/870786-REG/AEO_Photo_MCRORM1_Lightning_Strike_Micro_3_0.html

. . . Is this what you have or is there something else that's better?

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