X-10 or Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX7 ?

Started Jul 28, 2012 | Discussions
Dominick Scotto
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X-10 or Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX7 ?
Jul 28, 2012

Debating pluses & minuses of both cameras. Tempted by fast (1.7) 24mm minimum for panny. Any advice would be appreciated.

Dominick Scotto
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Re: X-10 or Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX7 ?
In reply to Dominick Scotto, Jul 29, 2012

Sorry Lens is 1.4

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geoson
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Re: X-10 or Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX7 ?
In reply to Dominick Scotto, Jul 29, 2012

Keep an eye on the Samsung EX2 as well. The EX1 has been very good for me. Once you've had an articulated screen, it's hard to go back to a stationary screen, especially for a compact camera.

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2raj
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Re: X-10 or Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX7 ?
In reply to Dominick Scotto, Jul 31, 2012

I chose the LX5 a few months ago after reading about the Orbs on the X10. Very happy with the image quality and features of the camera; only wish it had a manual zoom like the X10

If the LX7 is anything like the LX5, it will be a very good camera.
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depscribe
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Depends on . . .
In reply to Dominick Scotto, Aug 1, 2012

. . . Whether viewfinder is important to you. If it is, get an X10. If it isn't, get an LX-5.

Don't get an LX-7 at all. Really.
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Re: Depends on . . .
In reply to depscribe, Aug 1, 2012

depscribe wrote:

. . . Whether viewfinder is important to you. If it is, get an X10. If it isn't, get an LX-5.

Viewfinder on the X10 is massively overrated.

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Re: X-10 or Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX7 ?
In reply to Dominick Scotto, Aug 1, 2012

Dominick Scotto wrote:

Sorry Lens is 1.4

Both the f/1.4 lens and the 24mm wide end are enormous advantages to the Panny.

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LMNCT
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Re: Depends on . . .
In reply to rattymouse, Aug 1, 2012

An add-on EVF is available for the LX5 and also for the LX7. I would imagine that the LX7 will have an even better LCD and add-on finder than the LX5 because of the major pixel bump. I own an LX3 and LX5 and can tell you that they are both super reliable cameras. I also own the X-10 and the X-100, so I am not tied to any one company...but, I would be tempted to add the LX7 and perhaps eliminate one of the older LX units. I can tell you that the X-100 is absolutely going because I cannot trust the auto focus...and manual focus on that camera is less than a treat.

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FrancoisXavier C
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Re: Depends on . . .
In reply to rattymouse, Aug 1, 2012

rattymouse wrote:

depscribe wrote:

. . . Whether viewfinder is important to you. If it is, get an X10. If it isn't, get an LX-5.

Viewfinder on the X10 is massively overrated.

Compared with ?
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John Bean (UK)
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Re: Depends on . . .
In reply to rattymouse, Aug 1, 2012

rattymouse wrote:

depscribe wrote:

. . . Whether viewfinder is important to you. If it is, get an X10. If it isn't, get an LX-5.

Viewfinder on the X10 is massively overrated.

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Depends on the preferences of the user.

You are inclined to make over-generalised assertions that are in reality just a matter of opinion, not fact.

I've had a X10 all of one day but I like the viewfinder. It's useful to me, no worse than I would have expected and rather better than most in its class (compact cameras).

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Billx08
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Re: Depends on . . .
In reply to FrancoisXavier C, Aug 1, 2012

FrancoisXavier C wrote:

rattymouse wrote:

depscribe wrote:

. . . Whether viewfinder is important to you. If it is, get an X10. If it isn't, get an LX-5.

Viewfinder on the X10 is massively overrated.

Compared with ?

Compared with the X100's viewfinder. As a generalization, if most P&S viewfinders rate between 1 and 2 on a scale of 10, the X10's VF would rate about 3 compared with the X100's rating of 10. Very good EVFs would rate between 7 and 11, depending on your preferences. For those that often shoot continuous or high speed bursts, the EVFs will probably score closer to 7 than 11.

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Re: Depends on . . .
In reply to John Bean (UK), Aug 1, 2012

John Bean (UK) wrote:

rattymouse wrote:

depscribe wrote:

. . . Whether viewfinder is important to you. If it is, get an X10. If it isn't, get an LX-5.

Viewfinder on the X10 is massively overrated.

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Depends on the preferences of the user.

You are inclined to make over-generalised assertions that are in reality just a matter of opinion, not fact.

Here are some facts.

The viewfinder is tiny.
The viewfinder only shows 85% of the scene.
The viewfinder is not corrected for parallax.
The viewfinder has no focus point confirmation.
The viewfinder has no exposure information.
The viewfinder has no camera setting information.

For photographers who like to shoot with a lot of guesswork, this viewfinder is wonderful and acceptable. I, like many, like to operate my camera with more than guess work. I like information on what my camera is doing before taking the image. I dont shoot in auto mode so I require information to make calculated decisions.

That the X10's viewfinder might be "best in class" is meaningless marketing drivel to me. It changes none of the above.

I've had a X10 all of one day but I like the viewfinder. It's useful to me, no worse than I would have expected and rather better than most in its class (compact cameras).

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FrancoisXavier C
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Re: Depends on . . .
In reply to rattymouse, Aug 1, 2012

rattymouse wrote:

John Bean (UK) wrote:

rattymouse wrote:

depscribe wrote:

. . . Whether viewfinder is important to you. If it is, get an X10. If it isn't, get an LX-5.

Viewfinder on the X10 is massively overrated.

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Depends on the preferences of the user.

You are inclined to make over-generalised assertions that are in reality just a matter of opinion, not fact.

Here are some facts.

The viewfinder is tiny.

This, simply, is not true ...

-EDIT-

Viewfinder sizes :

Tiny : Canon G12, G1X, Nikon P7100
Small : Fuji X10
Large : Canon 60D
Big : Canon 7D

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depscribe
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Re: Depends on . . .
In reply to LMNCT, Aug 1, 2012

Ii have the add-on viewfinder for my LX-5 as well. It is inconvenient -- would be better if there were a locking mechanism to hold it in the shoe, and one to keep it from tilting upward. The LX-7 is the result of Leicasonic looking at the market and either making the wrong appraisal or hoping to create a niche: no built-in finder, a smaller sensor (and the laws of physics tells us there's no way around that being an issue), no real improvement over the LX-5 except for throwing in a one-stop speed increase, which is nice but Summicrons have always been somewhere between sharper and much, much sharper than Summiluxen. The LX-5 is an excellent camera at, now, an excellent price. The justification for the X10 are its viewfinder and zoom ring, neither of which is perfect but both of which are huge steps in the right direction, I think. The way that is best and most convenient for cameras to work evolved nicely over 75 years or so of film shooting; the fact that digital cameras do not use film but record to little cards instead says nothing useful about ergonomics.
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Timur Born
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Re: Depends on . . .
In reply to rattymouse, Aug 1, 2012

rattymouse wrote:

That the X10's viewfinder might be "best in class" is meaningless marketing drivel to me. It changes none of the above.

The X10's viewfinder is infinitely larger than any non-existing viewfinder on the LX7.

Personally I find the X10's viewfinder rather awkward to use, at least compared to the one on the E-M5. But having that little optical hole (combined with the virtually noiseless shutter) is very useful whenever you need to turn off all light-sources on the camera and still want to aim at something.

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John Bean (UK)
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Re: Depends on . . .
In reply to rattymouse, Aug 1, 2012

I've only read a few of your posts but you already sound like a stuck record.

I won't argue with you, your stated "facts" (only some of which are actual fact) have little to with the value of the viewfinder to anyone but you; we each have our own requirements and weigh up the pros and cons according to our needs.

You keep expressing your opinion on the X10 as though it is some universal truth rather than what it actually is - your opinion.

Bye.

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Re: Depends on . . .
In reply to John Bean (UK), Aug 1, 2012

John Bean (UK) wrote:

I've only read a few of your posts but you already sound like a stuck record.

I won't argue with you, your stated "facts" (only some of which are actual fact) have little to with the value of the viewfinder to anyone but you; we each have our own requirements and weigh up the pros and cons according to our needs.

You keep expressing your opinion on the X10 as though it is some universal truth rather than what it actually is - your opinion.

The viewfinder only shows 85% of the scene.
The viewfinder is not corrected for parallax.
The viewfinder has no focus point confirmation.
The viewfinder has no exposure information.
The viewfinder has no camera setting information.

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Ray Sachs
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Re: Depends on . . .
In reply to depscribe, Aug 1, 2012

depscribe wrote:

Ii have the add-on viewfinder for my LX-5 as well. It is inconvenient -- would be better if there were a locking mechanism to hold it in the shoe, and one to keep it from tilting upward. The LX-7 is the result of Leicasonic looking at the market and either making the wrong appraisal or hoping to create a niche: no built-in finder, a smaller sensor (and the laws of physics tells us there's no way around that being an issue), no real improvement over the LX-5 except for throwing in a one-stop speed increase, which is nice but Summicrons have always been somewhere between sharper and much, much sharper than Summiluxen. The LX-5 is an excellent camera at, now, an excellent price. The justification for the X10 are its viewfinder and zoom ring, neither of which is perfect but both of which are huge steps in the right direction, I think. The way that is best and most convenient for cameras to work evolved nicely over 75 years or so of film shooting; the fact that digital cameras do not use film but record to little cards instead says nothing useful about ergonomics.

Agreed, but the LX7 has a couple of fairly significant ergonomic improvements too. The aperture ring and the separate lever for manual focus/ND filter get two of MY most used functions off of that little click wheel. Which means it will mostly be dedicated to exposure comp and the occasional ISO change, which means I won't have to actually CLICK it much and won't get confused about which function its controlling at the moment. Yeah, I know it shows up in yellow, but I still screwed that up with the LX5 more often than I like to admit. To me, that's not a small improvement.

The sensor and the lens remain the big questions. The sensor, despite being smaller, might be at least somewhat better than the LX5 sensor at higher ISO (Canon seems to have pulled that off with the S100 compared to the 90/95. Which, combined with the faster lens (assuming its adequately sharp) could make it a real (if not huge) upgrade from the LX5. Or, if the sensor and/or lens don't cut it, then your advice makes a lot of sense and the 7 doesn't. But I'm at least gonna have a look at it. The EVF for the 7 is a LOT better than the one for the 5, BTW - I wouldn't use it much but its nice to have available for the occasional need.

-Ray
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Timur Born
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Re: Depends on . . .
In reply to rattymouse, Aug 1, 2012

rattymouse wrote:

The viewfinder only shows 85% of the scene.
The viewfinder is not corrected for parallax.
The viewfinder has no focus point confirmation.
The viewfinder has no exposure information.
The viewfinder has no camera setting information.

The viewfinder has no problem if the user knows about it and bought the camera anyway.

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Timur Born
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Re: Depends on . . .
In reply to Timur Born, Aug 1, 2012

Timur Born wrote:

rattymouse wrote:

The viewfinder only shows 85% of the scene.
The viewfinder is not corrected for parallax.
The viewfinder has no focus point confirmation.
The viewfinder has no exposure information.
The viewfinder has no camera setting information.

The viewfinder has no problem if the user knows about it and bought the camera anyway.

Or maybe even better.

The LX7 viewfinder only shows 0% of the scene (vs. 85%).
The LX7 viewfinder is not corrected for parallax.

The LX7 viewfinder has no focus point confirmation and not even a rough frame for orientation (which the X10 VF has).
The LX7 viewfinder has no exposure information.
The LX7 viewfinder has no camera settings information.

So obviously both the X10 and LX7 are no cameras for you. Now let those people interested in both cameras have their discussion.

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