ByThom, I challenge you to a duel

Started Jul 25, 2012 | Discussions
Biological_Viewfinder
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ByThom, I challenge you to a duel
Jul 25, 2012

Take a picture of a dark scene with any other camera ever made which debuts its price-range at the D800 or below. Use every precaution to use that resolution to its fullest and be completely fair and use the same lenses on each camera (I don't care if it's 3rd party lenses, just make it completely 100% fair).

Then when you find that the D800 surpasses all other cameras ever made in that category, quit with the politicism and be more accurate in your reviews and keep your personal opinions out of it. Stop catering to the whiners and find a more reasonable way to interact with Nikon rather than disrespecting one of the most important breakthrough cameras in digital history.

Everyone here respects you and your opinions because you don't go all Ken Rockwell emotional on people.

STOP IT!

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There are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

goosel
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challenge you
In reply to Biological_Viewfinder, Jul 25, 2012

come here and get my left AF point to work.

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Horshack
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Photograph of camera duel
In reply to Biological_Viewfinder, Jul 25, 2012

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jfriend00
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Re: ByThom, I challenge you to a duel
In reply to Biological_Viewfinder, Jul 25, 2012

While the D800 is a breakthrough product, it is quite clear that Nikon has a manufacturing problem with the AF sensor/calibration. All Thom is saying that until this problem is fixed by Nikon and there is a reliable way to obtain a D800 that does not have this manufacturing problem, the D800 is not recommended. That makes some sense to me.

It's also not helping that Nikon is trying to bury the issue and is not communicating anything about it so that leads to more uncertainty about whether they have the manufacturing issue under control and whether they really know how to identify and fix cameras that have this problem that have already shipped. Until that uncertainty is removed, the camera is not recommended. Again, that makes sense to me.

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tashley
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Re: ByThom, I challenge you to a duel
In reply to Biological_Viewfinder, Jul 25, 2012

Yup, I'm afraid I can't subscribe to the intent of this thread either. We all know it's an amazing camera, probably the best ever made from many perspectives, but my personal advice would be that until Nikon either 'mans up' or at the very least introduces a global fix, available to all users with 'the problem' from all service centres, that really works first time, people should avoid buying the camera. Maybe rent one for a while, whatever.

If in the end it is never either admitted to or fixed, then users have the choice of buying a superb camera that might well have an irritating but not generally game-stopping fault. But if they can afford to wait, IMHO they should.

Think whatever you like of Ken and Thom but they are in the business, fundamentally, of recommending cameras and I can't see that this one, however amazing it is (and it is) can justify anything but a 'hold' for now.

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jabakus
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Re: Photograph of camera duel
In reply to Horshack, Jul 25, 2012

HA HA HA HA LOLOLOL !!!!

...wonderful !!!

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enigmeow
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Re: ByThom, I challenge you to a duel
In reply to tashley, Jul 25, 2012

tashley wrote:
...

Think whatever you like of Ken and Thom but they are in the business, fundamentally, of recommending cameras and I can't see that this one, however amazing it is (and it is) can justify anything but a 'hold' for now.

I cancelled my D800 and second D4 and decided to wait two years until we see a D4s or a D800s. I want to see a major generational refresh at this point. My D4 definitely has focus issues (not as dramatic as the D800's but it does from +3 to +9 as you sweep from left to right.. and it does a very poor job of tracking moving subjects) and so I am uninterested in having a second camera with similar performance issues

I only use my D4 in AF-S situations and am VERY happy with the camera

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Biological_Viewfinder
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I thought it was quite funny as well (n/t)
In reply to jabakus, Jul 25, 2012

NO! None!!!!
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Biological_Viewfinder
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To any Naysayers that DO NOT have the camera...
In reply to Biological_Viewfinder, Jul 25, 2012

I own the D800e, and it is utterly amazing in ALMOST every regard.

To say "not recommended" is emotional and not objective reporting (period).

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thomas2279f
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Re: Photograph of camera duel
In reply to Horshack, Jul 25, 2012

That's funny what is not funny is people with problems with their D800.... come on Nikon fix these and improve on your QC!

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thomas2279f
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Re: ByThom, I challenge you to a duel
In reply to enigmeow, Jul 25, 2012

Yikes that is bad news with the D4 - especially it is a really expensive item £5k - haven't seen much evidence of AF problems on the Canon front with their new AF module in the Canon 1D-X & Canon 5d MK 3...

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Astrophotographer 10
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Re: To any Naysayers that DO NOT have the camera...
In reply to Biological_Viewfinder, Jul 25, 2012

To charge $3400 for a camera that has a known defect and not acknowledge it in any way is worse.

Thom is right, Nikon needs a wake up call. Don't abuse your customers. Companies may have been able to get away with it 30 years ago but now with the internet a large percentage of potential buyers can find all the warts of a product in a few minutes of searching.

Greg.

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Leonard Shepherd
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Re: This is often easy.
In reply to goosel, Jul 25, 2012

goosel wrote:

come here and get my left AF point to work.

This is often easy

A good AF target with good vertical detail at the centre of the outer viewfinder AF mark is important.

The outer AF points can detect detail slightly inside the marker boundary but not outside the centre of the AF mark.

If the AF readable detail is to the left of the right AF mark the AF can detect it

If the same AF readable detail is to the left of the left AF mark it is outside the detection area - and AF is prevented from working.

If "a complainer" finds a target with the AF readable detail to the right of the right AF mark there is a good chance the left AF sensor will work - and the right will not

Of the 61 images I have looked at at dpreview everyone failed to put good vertical readable detail under the left AF point. This proves nothing other than the photographer did not follow Nikon's guidance on getting good AF results.

I agree some of the cameras used to take the photos might still have a fault if tested with a good target for an outer AF sensor. However with no examples showing good readable detail compared to 61 with subjects that might not work the indication is, of the 60 cameras used, less than 2 might have a fault.

Turning to UK users reviews from those saying they bought a D800 I have looked at 325 this morning.

One gave it 2 out of 10 because his memory cards did not work. He objected to Nikon suggesting he try approved memory cards

One gave it 6 after receiving a body from Amazon with fingerprints on the rear screen i.e. possibly not new.
One gave it 6 because Nikon do not make a lens Canon make.
Of the 325 nobody has reported an AF issue - or any other problem .

A probable implication is the 325 I looked at this morning use AF sensibly and have a different experience to dpreview complainers who make a lot of noise but generally seem not to use AF sensibly

I understand similar review summaries in USA come to a conclusion that also differs from that of the vociferous group of dpreview complainers.
Some of the complainers complain even though they have never owned a D800
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Leonard Shepherd

Many problems turn out to be a lack of intimate knowledge of complex modern camera equipment.

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yvind Strm
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Re: Photograph of camera duel
In reply to Horshack, Jul 25, 2012
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Leonard Shepherd
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Re: Photograph of camera duel
In reply to yvind Strm, Jul 25, 2012

yvind Strm wrote:

Hillarious

Yes it is hilarious - but perhaps sad - that you cannot work out why, from Nikon's guidance on page 100 of the D800 instructions why your subject is one of which Nikon say Please note that the camera may believe focus has been acquired .
--
Leonard Shepherd

Many problems turn out to be a lack of intimate knowledge of complex modern camera equipment.

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SkyDreamer
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Re: Photograph of camera duel
In reply to Horshack, Jul 25, 2012

Horshack wrote:

ROFL! Brilliant!!!

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SkyDreamer
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Re: Photograph of camera duel
In reply to Leonard Shepherd, Jul 25, 2012

Leonard Shepherd wrote:

yvind Strm wrote:

Hillarious

Yes it is hilarious - but perhaps sad - that you cannot work out why, from Nikon's guidance on page 100 of the D800 instructions why your subject is one of which Nikon say Please note that the camera .
--
Leonard Shepherd

"MAY" , Leonard, "may". Here we are speaking about a systematic and constant error, moreover limited to the left . Not the same issue at all, unless you prove that when the autofocus "may believe focus has been acquired" it always errs on the backfocus side. Very very unlikely.

SD

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user_name
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Awesome!
In reply to Horshack, Jul 25, 2012

No text

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Shotcents
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Re: Awesome!
In reply to user_name, Jul 25, 2012

Leonard,

I have two D800 bodies. The latter one has the issue. There can be no doubt since the first body delivers sharp results on the left sensor just about 100% of the time. It is slightly less accurate than then center sensor, but still very good.

But on the 2nd body the left sensor NEVER returns a sharp result. I don't waste time with test targets. I shoot real photos. The 2nd camera cannot focus properly using the left sensor, regardless of target. Results are NOT variable. Use the left sensor on ANYTHING in ANY light and you will be OOF. I'm taking it to Melville shortly.

Thus far you seem to just say the same thing again and again and for some reason you are the only person who's in denial. You were wrong about this issue and THAT appears to be the problem. You are unable to accept that.

Robert

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f56andbethere
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Re: ByThom, I challenge you to a duel
In reply to Biological_Viewfinder, Jul 25, 2012

I am rather disappointed with Thom's wild claims. I have an 800 and an 800E, and both are seemingly perfect. Perhaps I got lucky, or perhaps the number of problem bodies is over-dramatized.

Either way, this is about as close to Ken Rockwell as it gets for him. Perhaps getting hits is now more important than being objective.

Even IF your left AF sucks, relax and take a breather. Work around it until you can get it to Nikon. Sure, that's no fun, but the camera is pretty amazing in every other regard, even if that's an issue for you.

There is no solid basis to say the camera, as a whole, is NOT RECOMMENDED. That's just silly... completely silly, Thom. You're better than that, or so I thought. These are the extreme month-to-month sensationalist claims you find on Rockwell's site. BEST CAMERA EVER... CAMERA SUCKS... no... THIS IS THE BEST CAMERA EVER... the 18-55 is all you need PERIOD, etc.

The 800 and 800E continue to make my jaw drop in many ways. Like no other camera before it. Chillax with the left AF, it doesn't nullify the $3K spent if it's not perfect, and it can be fixed. I can spend $3K on a box of broken glass, and it won't take any sort of pictures at all. So it's still a worthy investment. Stop being dramatic Thom... your credibility was something I once valued.

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