EOS-M vs. RX100 autofocus

Started Jul 24, 2012 | Discussions
PJBC
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EOS-M vs. RX100 autofocus
Jul 24, 2012

I waited for the EOS-M release before deciding on a new compact. It was RX-100 or the new yet-to-be-released canon mirrorless. I love canon (I've had 2 S90s), but for me personally the EOS-M is too lacking.

If the EOS M had a faster autofocus (the RX100 is lightning fast), one of the large frustrations of the S9x/S100 series in otherwise outstanding cameras, then perhaps. But barring theoretical firmware changes of a factor of 10 faster, it can't compete, and that's the deciding factor (for many others, too, it seems)

I think the next canon mirrorless will be better in this regard, but for now I have to leave canon for Sony for this next camera basically because of the autofocus...

Cheng Bao
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Re: EOS-M vs. RX100 autofocus
In reply to PJBC, Jul 24, 2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPyhM2x9gT8

you can check the af performance of pre-production unit on 2:13

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PJBC
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Re: EOS-M vs. RX100 autofocus
In reply to Cheng Bao, Jul 24, 2012

Exactly, thanks for the link. It's very slow.

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PaulRivers
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Re: EOS-M vs. RX100 autofocus
In reply to PJBC, Jul 24, 2012

While Canon is certainly not great about it's autofocus speeds, trying to write them off the day after they announced the camera seems incredibly premature to me. I'm sure the rx100 is great, and I can totally understand just ordering the rx100 rather than waiting and seeing what Canon does, but autofocus speeds with their current design seem like they could definitely be improved with a firmware update (what I mean is - autofocus could be much faster the moment they release the camera, whereas other things that depend on physical characteristics of the camera would be in the "once it's announced it's not going to change" category).

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Tapper123
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RX100 - go for it if you want pocketable
In reply to PJBC, Jul 24, 2012

I have an RX100, and it's truly amazing and premium quality.

If you want a truly pocketable camera, get the RX100. You won't regret it. If you want a CSC, check out the NEX as well. Better bang for the buck than EOS-M by far.

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PJBC
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Re: EOS-M vs. RX100 autofocus
In reply to PaulRivers, Jul 24, 2012

That is true, good points Paul. As mentioned in the post, they'd have to increase by a factor of 10 to move the appr. 1.5s closer to the appr. 0.15s. An order of magnitude isn't trivial, so (in my admittedly limited knowledge about this) that seems improbable. A factor of 2, probably, but the S90 is already there and is still slow, despite being an amazing camera in other respects.

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jimr
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Paul..If Canon Could Have Made Made The AF Faster Simply Through Firmware They Would
In reply to PaulRivers, Jul 24, 2012

Have done it from the get go...
This just is not that simple or they would have made a better first impression..
Canon surely knows how important first reports and impressions are.

PaulRivers wrote:

While Canon is certainly not great about it's autofocus speeds, trying to write them off the day after they announced the camera seems incredibly premature to me. I'm sure the rx100 is great, and I can totally understand just ordering the rx100 rather than waiting and seeing what Canon does, but autofocus speeds with their current design seem like they could definitely be improved with a firmware update (what I mean is - autofocus could be much faster the moment they release the camera, whereas other things that depend on physical characteristics of the camera would be in the "once it's announced it's not going to change" category).

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Brian Slater
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Re: Paul..If Canon Could Have Made Made The AF Faster Simply Through Firmware They Wo
In reply to jimr, Jul 24, 2012

I feel weird being an apologist for a camera I haven't used, but several months out we have no idea what still needs to be fine-tuned to make AF work optimally. But it goes well beyond firmware! Lens mechanics, lens motors and electronics are all involved too. The anecdotes and videos of the pre-production cameras have mostly related to the EF-M lenses, and these may also be pre-production. Decent AF will be critical to this camera's success.

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Shorthand
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Re: Paul..If Canon Could Have Made Made The AF Faster Simply Through Firmware They Wo
In reply to Brian Slater, Jul 24, 2012

Brian Slater wrote:

I feel weird being an apologist for a camera I haven't used, but several months out we have no idea what still needs to be fine-tuned to make AF work optimally. But it goes well beyond firmware! Lens mechanics, lens motors and electronics are all involved too. The anecdotes and videos of the pre-production cameras have mostly related to the EF-M lenses, and these may also be pre-production. Decent AF will be critical to this camera's success.

OTOH, the 650D is a production model with the same AF system in Live View mode, and we know how it performs with, STM, USM, and micro-motor lenses.

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PaulRivers
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Re: Paul..If Canon Could Have Made Made The AF Faster Simply Through Firmware They Wo
In reply to jimr, Jul 24, 2012

jimr wrote:
Have done it from the get go...
This just is not that simple or they would have made a better first impression..
Canon surely knows how important first reports and impressions are.

PaulRivers wrote:

While Canon is certainly not great about it's autofocus speeds, trying to write them off the day after they announced the camera seems incredibly premature to me. I'm sure the rx100 is great, and I can totally understand just ordering the rx100 rather than waiting and seeing what Canon does, but autofocus speeds with their current design seem like they could definitely be improved with a firmware update (what I mean is - autofocus could be much faster the moment they release the camera, whereas other things that depend on physical characteristics of the camera would be in the "once it's announced it's not going to change" category).

Not exactly. The s90 suffered from the rear ring issue for...well they never fixed it.

It could be that the autofocus will be slow until a future version, or it could be that with all the other cameras coming out with snappy autofocus (like the rx100, actually) they come up with much better autofocus before it's released.

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PaulRivers
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Re: EOS-M vs. RX100 autofocus
In reply to PJBC, Jul 24, 2012

PJBC wrote:

That is true, good points Paul. As mentioned in the post, they'd have to increase by a factor of 10 to move the appr. 1.5s closer to the appr. 0.15s. An order of magnitude isn't trivial, so (in my admittedly limited knowledge about this) that seems improbable. A factor of 2, probably, but the S90 is already there and is still slow, despite being an amazing camera in other respects.

But where are you getting this info?

All I've seen so far is a video where the video autofocus takes a while to change - the s100 does the exact same thing, but it's not at all indicative of it's autofocus speeds. Canon deliberately uses slow autofocus in video so that while it takes a few extra seconds to refocus, you don't have the herky-jerky "ruin the video" effect you could get with cameras that would jump between focussing on different things.

Other than that, it seems like it's the usual cycle when a new camera is announced -
1. Lots of excitement
2. Followed by lots of fear that something or other will be terrible
3. The camera is released

4. Usually those fears turn out to be totally unfounded, but instead there's something else that's kinda bad that no one could have realized before having the camera

It's kind of the typical endless cycle...

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