Competition for X-S1 ?

Started Jul 17, 2012 | Discussions
SHood
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Competition for X-S1 ?
Jul 17, 2012

Looks like Panasonic decide to go with a fast constant f2.8 lens instead of a larger sensor. Announcement coming in 6 hours.

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labe
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Re: Competition for X-S1 ?
In reply to SHood, Jul 17, 2012

But still no manual zoom. Manual zoom and good colour are why fuji are still selling bridge cameras even when the IQ is much less.
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isb_deep
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Re: Competition for X-S1 ?
In reply to SHood, Jul 18, 2012

SHood wrote:

Looks like Panasonic decide to go with a fast constant f2.8 lens instead of a larger sensor. Announcement coming in 6 hours.

If they did this, it is incredible! However, I believe it is a 28-600, 2.8 to 4.5 lens, as can be seen from the inscription on front of the lens element. Even then, 4.5 at 600 is not bad at all.

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Re: Competition for X-S1 ?
In reply to isb_deep, Jul 18, 2012

isb_deep wrote:

SHood wrote:

Looks like Panasonic decide to go with a fast constant f2.8 lens instead of a larger sensor. Announcement coming in 6 hours.

If they did this, it is incredible! However, I believe it is a 28-600, 2.8 to 4.5 lens, as can be seen from the inscription on front of the lens element. Even then, 4.5 at 600 is not bad at all.

No, the aperture is constant at f/2.8. What you are seeing there is the low end of the zoom range, 4.5 mm.
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Larry Winters
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Re: Competition for X-S1 ?
In reply to labe, Jul 18, 2012

labe wrote:

But still no manual zoom. Manual zoom and good colour are why fuji are still selling bridge cameras even when the IQ is much less.

And don't forget the better viewfinders.

I won't bother with all the other negatives of the Fuji's besides the resolution.

lw

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isb_deep
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Re: Competition for X-S1 ?
In reply to rattymouse, Jul 18, 2012

rattymouse wrote:

isb_deep wrote:

SHood wrote:

Looks like Panasonic decide to go with a fast constant f2.8 lens instead of a larger sensor. Announcement coming in 6 hours.

If they did this, it is incredible! However, I believe it is a 28-600, 2.8 to 4.5 lens, as can be seen from the inscription on front of the lens element. Even then, 4.5 at 600 is not bad at all.

No, the aperture is constant at f/2.8. What you are seeing there is the low end of the zoom range, 4.5 mm.
--

http://fujifilmimages.aminus3.com/

well, I'll be... this is good!

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Larry Winters
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How soon we forgot the FZ3
In reply to SHood, Jul 18, 2012

with a constant f/2.8 at 420mm from 2004. Yep, eight years ago.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicfz3/

Of course the FZ200 will be miles ahead in all areas but the constant f/2.8 in a super zoom really isn't all that new.

lw

SHood wrote:

Looks like Panasonic decide to go with a fast constant f2.8 lens instead of a larger sensor. Announcement coming in 6 hours.

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Larry Winters
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I'm probably in the minority
In reply to SHood, Jul 18, 2012

but I'm hoping for a 18mp or so X-S2. Enough increase to add a noticeable acuity improvement. There is no doubt the X-S1 has MUCH to offer but the current lack of visible detail is the deal breaker for me.

Also, I won't be interested in the new FZ200. But, if Panny can maintain the speed, accuracy and IQ of the FZ150 I'm sure it will be a big seller.

lw

SHood wrote:

Looks like Panasonic decide to go with a fast constant f2.8 lens instead of a larger sensor. Announcement coming in 6 hours.

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Larry Winters
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And the FZ20 at f/2.8 432mm...
In reply to Larry Winters, Jul 18, 2012
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Re: I'm probably in the minority
In reply to Larry Winters, Jul 18, 2012

Larry Winters wrote:

but I'm hoping for a 18mp or so X-S2. Enough increase to add a noticeable acuity improvement. There is no doubt the X-S1 has MUCH to offer but the current lack of visible detail is the deal breaker for me.

I agree. The 6mp of the X-S1 is just embarrassing. Shooting the EXR sensors at full rez offers very little if any improvement.

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jcmarfilph
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Re: Competition for HS30?
In reply to SHood, Jul 18, 2012

That is good and will certainly be an advantage in low-light scenes.

HS30 can only do F/5.0 at 600mm but still 5x faster to get to 600mm+ FL than FZ200.

Still fast lens physically .

-=[ Joms ]=-

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Larry Winters
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Re: Competition for HS30?
In reply to jcmarfilph, Jul 18, 2012

jcmarfilph wrote:

That is good and will certainly be an advantage in low-light scenes.

HS30 can only do F/5.0 at 600mm but still 5x faster to get to 600mm+ FL than FZ200.

Still fast lens physically .

Joms:

Sure the manual zoom is much preferrable but wouldn't it be nice to supplant those noisy ISO 1600 bird images with mostly noise free ISO 400 shots?

lw

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Rachotilko
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Re: I'm probably in the minority
In reply to rattymouse, Jul 18, 2012

Guys, the problem is LENS !!! LENS !!!

I read some review where they measured the resolution. The result was much higher resolution obtained from X10 than X-S1. And as you surely know, the sensor is the same .

Moreover, my observation tells me the resolution drops dramatically with the subject distance. That's hardly a sensor problem.

The sensor resolution of 6mp would be acceptable, had it been sharp & information rich 6mp. Unfortunatelly, that is not the case for X-S1.

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Re: I'm probably in the minority
In reply to Rachotilko, Jul 18, 2012

Rachotilko wrote:

Guys, the problem is LENS !!! LENS !!!

We know. DROOPAGE!!! DROOPAGE!!!

The sensor resolution of 6mp would be acceptable, had it been sharp & information rich 6mp. Unfortunatelly, that is not the case for X-S1.

DROOPAGE!!

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Rachotilko
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Re: I'm probably in the minority
In reply to rattymouse, Jul 18, 2012

Sorry for the capitals ! But I wanted to make sure everybody understands the increased sensor resolution would not result in increased amount of information contained in the output.

Wrt DROOOOPAGE : I'm not sure about it ! Because:

  • the output is lacking resolution (despite extensive sharpening halos) even with zoom only half-extended (ie. in the middle of the focal range). The droopage is only significant with zoom fully extended.

  • did the shimming made the X-S1 output equivalent to X10's ?

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Larry Winters
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Re: I'm probably in the minority
In reply to Rachotilko, Jul 18, 2012

Rachotilko wrote:

Sorry for the capitals ! But I wanted to make sure everybody understands the increased sensor resolution would not result in increased amount of information contained in the output.

The HS10/20/30 all have the same lens but when sensor resolution was increased for the HS20/30 the amount of visible detail or acuity INCREASED which is what I'm talking about. And its obvious, so I firmly believe the acuity of a 18mp X-S2 sensor would be obvious as well. I don't necessarily care about how much info is contained in the file output, only what my eye can ascertain in the image.

lw

Wrt DROOOOPAGE : I'm not sure about it ! Because:

  • the output is lacking resolution (despite extensive sharpening halos) even with zoom only half-extended (ie. in the middle of the focal range). The droopage is only significant with zoom fully extended.

  • did the shimming made the X-S1 output equivalent to X10's ?

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Rachotilko
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Re: I'm probably in the minority
In reply to Larry Winters, Jul 18, 2012

Larry, to get good resolution, both sensor and the lens have to be able to resolve the detail. When one of them is lacking resolution, the detail is lost, and the improved resolution of the other one would not redeem the situation.

Furthermore. The 'X10 argument' shows, that the sensor is not the guilty one of the lack of resolution in the X-S1's output. X10's provides very detailed landscape shots, X-S1 does not. With the same sensor.

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Eigenmeat
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Re: I'm probably in the minority
In reply to Rachotilko, Jul 18, 2012

Well the X10 might be better than the XS-1, but it's still firmly in the crappy regime in terms of resolution. I mean literally ANY current generation digi cam will out resolve it, even the Iphone.
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Larry Winters
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Re: I'm probably in the minority
In reply to Rachotilko, Jul 18, 2012

Rachotilko wrote:

Larry, to get good resolution, both sensor and the lens have to be able to resolve the detail. When one of them is lacking resolution, the detail is lost, and the improved resolution of the other one would not redeem the situation.

Well of course they work together but increasing megapixels within the same physical size sensor, changes the pixel pitch and therefore can increase acuity.

Furthermore. The 'X10 argument' shows, that the sensor is not the guilty one of the lack of resolution in the X-S1's output. X10's provides very detailed landscape shots, X-S1 does not. With the same sensor.

Of course a zoom lens with less range will likely resolve more, but that doesn't mean the X-S1 lens has reached its visible limits. It will never resolve the same as the X10 lens but the acuity can be improved with more and subsequently SMALLER megapixels. Provided the S/N ratio remains adequate that is.

lw

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Rachotilko
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Re: I'm probably in the minority
In reply to Eigenmeat, Jul 18, 2012

Eigenmeat wrote:

Well the X10 might be better than the XS-1, but it's still firmly in the crappy regime in terms of resolution. I mean literally ANY current generation digi cam will out resolve it, even the Iphone.
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1, In terms of resolution X10 is yielding results substantially better than X-S1. And I find X10 resolution perfectly acceptable for me.

2, I don't care if X10is outresolved by any current digicam, as X10 will demolish almost all of them in lowlight & DR performance.

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